Thanks August,
Yes so August has illuminated an alternative to the J-box supply side
tap approach that uses standard equipment and a load side connection but
still satisfies it being considered a 200 A connection by PG&E - hence
no need for a service upgrade and CTs for commercial accounts as
required for 400 Amp services.
PG&E defines the service rating amperage based on the enclosure rating
of the first piece of equipment the service hits. See section 1.14 in
the Greenbook:
https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf
Approach 1: Supply Side: 200 A Meter Socket > J-box (such as this
<https://www.ideadigitalcontent.com/files/11028/784572230569_SS.pdf> ) >
200A fused Disconnect for Solar & > 200A Panel Board for Loads
Approach 2: Load Side: 200 A Meter Socket > 200 A Main Breaker > 400
Rated Bus with 200 A Main and PV on load side.
Both accomplish not upgrading the service and not requiring CTs. They
both are fairly inexpensive with the right equipment.
One thing I'm not clear on is the AIC rating neeeded for the equipment
in either scenario as PG&E is upgrading to a 50KVA transformer. Will the
10,000 AIC rating of the J-box I listed fly?
Others? Any other code considerations that might sway me before I ask my
AHJ and PG&E which they prefer?
Thanks!
Jeff
August Goers wrote on 10/23/19 7:35 AM:
Replying on list, I had mistakenly only replied to Jeff off list. -August
On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 6:26 AM August Goers <aug...@luminalt.com
<mailto:aug...@luminalt.com>> wrote:
Hi Jeff - I think technically you can try a supply side connection
per NEC 705.12(A) if you can find equipment with provisions to
both feed your existing service and then the solar. Sometimes a
splice box is required.
Without knowing the configuration of the existing equipment, it's
hard to understand if that will be easier overall compared to just
going the route where you supply a 200 A rated meter socket (maybe
you already have this?) and 200 A main breaker panel (with no
loads) and then a 400 A bused panel to connect both your loads and
the PV system.
August
On Mon, Oct 21, 2019 at 11:52 AM Jeff Clearwater
<je...@villagepowerdesign.com
<mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> wrote:
Hey August, Jay, and Burt and all,
Thanks for the great input! and I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer.
They are not asking for 400 Amps - I suggested it as that was
the rating of the solar ready panel I specified.
They are just saying IF it's 400 Amps then they need room for
CTs cause it's a shop and hence residential equipment is not
approved.
So as August and Glenn indicate below - perhaps the easiest is
a 200 AMP meter can with a Supply side line. That does throw
it back to my AJH to approve but that is pretty standardI
would hope. It also requires the variance letter from PG&E.
I'm running 5 SB7.7s at 32 Amps each - so 160 AMPS of solar input.
So If I supply a 200 A meter can with supply side lugs that I
can feed into a 200 A fused disconnect and solar distribution
panel and keep the existing 200 Amp panel box fed by the 200
Amp main breaker - any reason that won't work?
OR does anyone know of a commercial 400 AMP solar ready meter
base with 2 200 Amp feeds - one for solar and one for loads
that does allow room for CTs?
Thanks,
Jeff
August Goers wrote on 10/17/19 4:35 PM:
Hi Jeff -
PG&E defines the service rating amperage based on the
enclosure rating of the first piece of equipment the service
hits. See section 1.14 in the Greenbook:
https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf
This might be why they insist that you need a 400 A service
just because you want a 400 A rated bus. The easy way around
it is to supply a 200 A rated meter socket and main
disconnect, then feed a 400 A sub panel.
A meter/main like the Eaton MBEB200BTS might also work for
you:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-200-Amp-BR-Type-Main-Breaker-Meter-Breaker-without-Distribution-EUSERC-MBEB200BTS/100555147
August
Luminalt
Hi Jeff,
Seems to me if allowed in your jurisdiction, you might be
best served by installing a new 200A fused service disconnect
ahead of the existing main service panel. Or even a 400A one
to allow for additional work inside (CT’s), then perform a
supply side connection in it. Some manufacturers of
switchgear have an option for lugs that accept multiple
conductors, so no piercing of conductors needs to happen.
Good luck,
Glenn
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 12:19 PM Jeff Clearwater
<je...@villagepowerdesign.com
<mailto:je...@villagepowerdesign.com>> wrote:
Esteemed Wrenches,
I am in need of changing out an existing 200 Amp service
entrance in order to accommodate a bus capable of
handling a a 200 Amp Solar backfeed (41 KW system) .
PG&E is upgrading the transformer to handle the backfeed
but when I proposed a Siemens SolarReady 400 Amp service
entrance they couldn't approve it cause since the
building is a shop - they classify it as commercial and
require a panel that can handle CTs when there is a 400
Amp service involved.
Anyone else faced with this have solutions? What is the
cheapest equipment I can provide to satisfy all requirements?
We don't need to upgrade the existing 200 amp service
entrance equipment for load purposes - only to meet the
bus requirements of backfeed.
Would it be cheaper and easier to use the existing (or
new) 200 Amp residential panel - not call it a 400 Amp
upgrade but simply add a 200 Amp Supply Side Connection?
Suggested equipment to do that in the most economical manner?
Any help well appreciated!
Jeff
--
~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Village Power Design
linkedin
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/>
www.villagepowerdesign.com
<http://www.villagepowerdesign.com>
cell - 413-559-9763
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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