Rains came…. is the Gen shed away from the inverter/batteries/home? Water in conduit? You made sure that the generator natural was not bonded as the tend to be? To jays question; surging changes as the charge rate goes down? Have you removed the air cleaner from the gen set and run it that way, under a load? I have seen water vapor freezing in the air filter causing surging I have also seen the rubber hose from AC to engine collapse under a load then when the load goes away no more surge and under the load up surges again and so on. > On Mar 19, 2020, at 10:53 AM, Jay <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi William > > 3 questions > > Did this system used to work? > > > The surging is happening even with no loads, just battery charging? > > Lastly, did you find a charging/ ac amp size that stopped the surging? With > 30 amps it’s still charging full rate, if you set it down further does it > stop? > > Jay > > Peltz Power. > > > >> On Mar 19, 2020, at 12:20 AM, William Miller <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> >> Mac: >> >> I know well what the AC input mode is. This is the project that had the >> excessive THD on the voltage waveform (>26%f). Here is a link >> <https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/25_GFI%20Tripping/GFI_Tripping.html> >> to the case study. >> >> As you can see, we resolved the problem by changing the AC input mode to >> Backup. After recent rains started and generator run became necessary, the >> client started noticing flickering of lights and refrigerator operation was >> unreliable. We examined the E-Gauge data and could see rapid fluctuations in >> the generator output. At one point we saw generator power range from 19kW >> to 12Kw and back in about 2 seconds. >> >> We isolated the generator into a load bank and it was rock solid. We tried >> lots of things but when we reconnected the generator to the Radians and >> switched to the Radians to Generator input mode the surging stopped. >> Unfortunately, the Generator mode causes tons of THD, as noted in the case >> study. >> >> So we can’t use Generator because of THD, and we can’t use Backup (or >> Support or UPS) because in all these modes the generator surges. >> >> By the way, this is a newish Kohler 30RCL. This should be a rock-solid >> match to a 24 kW Radian system. >> >> Like I said, we tried lots of things. What stopped the surging was to open >> the AC input breaker to Inverter 1. It did not help to open the input to >> Inverters 2 or 3. I don’t have a clue as to why this is so… >> >> We tried taking Inverter 1 out of the system--moving inverter 2 up to Master >> and Inverter 3 to Slave 1. The generator still surged. So if anyone started >> to think Inverter 1 was the problem, this was not confirmed. >> >> We are certain the neutral bonding is exactly as it should be. We tripled >> checked this when chasing the THD problems. We also adjusted input AC from >> 30 to 50 (per port), no improvement. >> >> I must say Outback has been very available to us as we try to figure these >> problems out. I am fortunate that I am working with a senior engineer. We >> are both currently stumped, but we are going to consult again tomorrow and >> see if any other ideas come to us. >> >> Thanks everyone for the input. More soon. >> >> William Miller >> >> >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Mac Lewis >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2020 6:35 PM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator surging >> >> Hi William, >> >> Do you know what your AC input mode is? >> I'd try playing with this mode. >> If you have a generator, I'd try switching between "generator", "support". >> You may quickly see a difference. There is a small diode symbol that shows >> up on the Mate3s screen during generator charging. I don't fully understand >> what that means but I know that it can affect how a generator works with the >> Radian. >> >> Also, you may try lowering the charging current and see how the generator >> responds. >> >> What type of generator? Whats your AC input limits? >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 6:56 PM Jerry Shafer <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Adjust the generator max output in the outback down and see what happens >> Jerry >> >> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020, 4:04 PM William Miller <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> Friends: >> >> I have a 24kW Radian system that is acting up. The problem is when the >> generator is running, it surges. Voltage and power go up and down. We >> connected the generator to a load bank and there was no surging. This makes >> me think the problem is in the Radian system. >> >> Has anyone else experienced this? >> >> Thanks in advance for any input. >> >> William Miller >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> >> >> -- >> >> >> >> Mac Lewis >> >> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]> >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> >> > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org> > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html > <http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html> > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/> > [email protected] > <blocked::mailto:[email protected]%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:[email protected]> > www.SWNL.net > <blocked::http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/> > Solarwinds Northernlights > Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California > 207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401 > > Blair "TUMP" May > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" > > ******** MAINE'S CHARTER ******** > Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" >
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