James,
Here's the code reference: 2017 690.31(B)(1). Only solidly grounded PV
system conductors shall be marked in accordance with 200.6 (white or gray).
Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
On 6/13/2020 5:56 PM, James Jarvis wrote:
Brian, thank you very much. With your hint of "functional ground" I
can clearly see that I am not allowed to have those be white wires.
Now time for me to incur the full wrath by daring to question the
infinite wisdom of the "highly qualified individual" from the state.
(all kinds of fun stuff from this guy. Got another violation for
having a donut type current transformer over a line voltage wire. He
said that wasn't allowed.)
Thank you,
-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
(Sent from my phone. My apologies for spelling errors and brevity.)
On Sat, Jun 13, 2020, 17:41 Brian Mehalic <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Change in 2017 to “functional grounded” was to clarify this - it’s
not solid when it is thru a fuse or breaker than can be
interrupted either in the event of a ground-fault or if the
breaker is intentionally opened. 2017 makes it clear that there
are very few solidly grounded systems (2 or less PV source
circuits, not touching a building the only case it is allowed).
Pardon any incorrect language as I don’t have my code book, but I
do think the 2017 NEC® makes it very clear, including in the
definition of function grounded, that those conductors cannot be
white or gray, regardless of if the system has a transformer-based
or TL inverter or a CC with integrated or an external GF
breaker/fuse.
Brian
> On Jun 13, 2020, at 3:05 PM, greg egan <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>
> Jim, Hope all is well with you and yours. on white wires in
circuits, In 3 ph. circuits you can get killed breaking into a
neutral that's common to other circuits. One example, working on
277 lighting, you throw the breaker or light switch on the one
circuit you're working so the hot isn't hot anymore. It's
standard practice for 3 ph. lighting ckts to share a neutral. The
white wire in your ckt is wire nutted in the j-box up in the
ceiling to the common neutrals. Those neutrals are hot to ground
when their respective ckts are hot and they're carrying current.
>
> Just thought it was worth mentioning on this list that there's
no hard fast rule that all white wires are dead. It depends on
the ckt.
>
> Best,
> Greg Egan
> Remote Power Inc.
>
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2020 15:17:19 -0500
> From: James Jarvis<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
> To: RE-wrenches<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] White wire for DC- after ground fault breaker
> Message-ID:
>
<CAFWEuYVMACXebixHtyRVYQ5Xnmaur=ugtv6etu5tnepm00n...@mail.gmail.com
<mailto:[email protected]>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I have an off-grid install where I was recently red-tagged by
the state
> inspector. System is 24 volt with battery, Magnum inverters,
some Magnum
> charge controllers, and a Morningstar charge controller. It is
permitted
> under NEC 2017.
>
> One of the inspectors issues was that my DC- conductors to the
array /
> rapid shut down box are black color. He wants them to be white
because he
> says they are solidly grounded. I reason that they are only solidly
> grounded when they are solidly grounded. As soon as the ground fault
> protection breaker opens, they are floating at array voltage. I
think it is
> misleading and unsafe to have a white conductor that can have
hundreds of
> volts of potential on it when a breaker trips.
>
> I haven't dug into the code yet. I'm just working on the logic
that one of
> my mentors put into me which is white wires better not have voltage
> potential on them. "That's the sort of sh*t that kills
electricians" is
> what he repeatedly said ... and it's stuck with me.
>
> Thoughts? I'm backed into the corner with the state, so I will
be changing
> them to white even if it is unsafe ... unless I have some code
backing.
>
> <rant>Changing the wires to white will get interesting up on the
roof. I
> wonder if they want me to cut off the black MC on the modules
and replace
> them with white? This is mostly just an exercise in the State of
Minnesota
> only wanting to know about and allow micro inverters. They
brought in a
> state inspector from three hours away who kept repeating that he
was a
> "highly qualified individual", but was unable to identify or
recognize a
> charge controller. He kept referring to the charge controllers as
> inverters.</rant off>
>
> Thanks,
>
> -James Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
> http://www.aprsworld.com/
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