For this application I was originally thinking about a 48V inverter with 120V output, but there are not many options in the size range I was considering. It hit me that I could potentially get a 120/240V split-phase inverter and run the DC converter from one leg and the 120V loads from the other leg. The Sol-Ark 8K would probably be the right size for this application. Despite there being no 240V loads, they "could" add them in the future if needed. I know about imbalance issues with the 12k, but have not heard this same feedback about the 8k, so please let me know if you know otherwise.
I really doubt there will be enough imbalance here to cause issues. The biggest load on the DC side is a tiny 12V DC pump and the largest load on the AC side will be the new refrigerator, or maybe a big ceiling fan starting up. The inductive loads are almost negligible. Really the only reason I want an inverter this large is for the charger capacity. The owner wants a 9.6kWh LiPo battery minimum, so I want a sizable charger. BUT, the client would need to replace their 120V portable generator with a split-phase unit. That could be a sticking point taking me back to a 120V inverter. I was hoping for an all-in-one for this particular job, but the only one I can find that is 48Vdc and 120Vac is the EG4 6500EX-48. At the price point they offer it, I guess it can't hurt to try! I can even have a spare on the shelf for less in total than the cost of a Victron inverter charger and separate charge controller, and still have money to spare. I have been dabbling into the EG4 brand, mostly with clients that went ahead and bought EG4 batteries before they ever met me, and I haven't had any real issues other than battery to inverter closed loop comms. It's too early to say I'm impressed, but the prices are in the too-good-to-be-true category. I don't want to get off topic here with batteries and manufacturer reliability, but I wanted to mention the EG4 6500EX-48, which seems like perfect specs for this job. And... I know... someone is probably thinking that we're up to a 9.6kWh battery with a small 120V generator, and that's probably not a good match. I get that, but the client expects the PV to handle all of their needs with the generator only serving as an emergency backup. I have alerted them to the potential mismatch. I still want a sizeable charger in case they upgrade their generator for faster battery recharges. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 1:52 PM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: > Jason, > Just using the converter works fine. They are considered a battery > charger or a regulated power supply. I am currently running that way now > with the battery cables going nowhere. I was thinking of putting the > battery back in the system just for triple redundancy when my inverter hits > low battery cutoff voltage on a cold winter night and no fuel for the > generator (or it won't start). > My Iota DLS puts out a regulated 13.4 volts up to 30 amps. > > John > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:25 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Ah ha! I didn't consider using a small 12V battery with a charger. I was >> thinking of just using a 120V -> 12V converter to handle the DC loads. Is >> the 12V battery really necessary, or can I just power the DC loads directly >> with a converter? If I just have lights and fans on the DC system, the load >> should be pretty minimal. >> >> I could use a separate 12V battery, but I would like to eliminate that >> cost and complexity if possible. >> >> >> And yeah, I am not considering this a money making opportunity. It's >> really just a challenge to ward off boredom from the daily grind. >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 8:01 AM John Blittersdorf via RE-wrenches < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Jason, >>> I have a customer with the same situation except he already has a 12 V >>> VFX inverter, He has a sunfrost fridge and other small loads with a very >>> fancy custom control board >>> originally set up to handle AC and DC systems. We are adding a lot more >>> solar and I was considering a dual battery system but the owner didn't like >>> that idea. We are going with and Iota 12v power supply (i use one at my >>> house for my sunfrost) to power up all his DC loads and will be adding a >>> large 48 V battery bank and over 4Kw of solar using a VFXR3648 directly in >>> place of the 12V inverter. He complained that the existing inverter would >>> not handle all his current AC loads very well. My own house is fully wired >>> for 12VDC as well as AC (lots of #10 copper not being used) and I have been >>> considering getting a small LFP 12V battery to put back on by DC System. >>> Then use the Iota as a secondary charging method with some of my large >>> stash of older modules hooked up for 12V direct with C40 charge controller >>> to recreate my original system just for kicks. I'm only using DC for my >>> Sunfrost and one "emergency light" in the livingroom right now. For your >>> customer, a small LFP 12v battery (approximately $500 or less) to replace >>> his old battery bankm and more larger ones for the new AC side with 48V >>> inverter fed by his generator or through an Iota 48 V charger ifusing a >>> smaller non charging inverter. Unlike Dave, I like these challenges. Maybe >>> thats why I never seem to make money.!! >>> >>> John Blittersdorf >>> offgridvermont.com >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 24, 2024 at 7:22 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Fortunately, the owner is pretty handy and is willing to live with any >>>> negative consequences. That said, I want to offer him something as simple >>>> and bulletproof as possible. I am walking into this with eyes wide open, >>>> for sure. >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 23, 2024 at 5:47 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>> RE-wrenches <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Not being helpful but I walk away from these. It will come back to you. >>>>> >>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>> e-mail [email protected] <[email protected]> >>>>> text 209 813 0060* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 2024-04-23 2:40 pm, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I have an off-grid client who is working on replacing old equipment at >>>>> a cabin. He has a lot of 12 volt distribution in the house for lighting, >>>>> fans, and a 12 volt refrigerator. He also has 120 volt AC loads that run >>>>> through a separate distribution panel where the only source is a 2000 Watt >>>>> Honda generator. There is no inverter present. The batteries are charged >>>>> through a Trace C40. >>>>> >>>>> He currently has a few ancient solar panels and a struggling Bank of >>>>> AGM batteries. It's time for an upgrade. I can easily supply enough PV >>>>> power for what he needs. He currently has a 9 kilowatt hour battery >>>>> capacity that he was happy with when the batteries operated optimally. >>>>> Nonetheless, I would probably future-proof him with a 10 to 15 kilowatt >>>>> hour LiPo to double or triple his usable capacity. >>>>> >>>>> For convenience, obviously it would be nice to have an inverter to >>>>> eliminate or reduce the generator requirement. But he seems committed to >>>>> keeping his 12 volt distribution because it would be costly to replace >>>>> fixtures. I think he would consider replacing the 12 volt refrigerator if >>>>> he has an inverter. >>>>> >>>>> He definitely wants LiPo batteries. >>>>> >>>>> I don't like the idea of 12 volt direct from a battery plus connecting >>>>> an inverter to that same battery. It is going to be hard to measure and >>>>> monitor things. >>>>> >>>>> I am thinking about using a 48 volt battery with a single phase 120 >>>>> volt inverter, getting him to change to a 120 volt refrigerator, and using >>>>> a DC converter to give him somewhere in the range of 100 amps at 12 volts >>>>> for his existing DC lighting and fan loads. Is this a bad idea? Should I >>>>> stick with a 12 volt battery system? He does have a tiny 12 volt pressure >>>>> pump which might be an issue for the converter. I'm not sure. I am a bit >>>>> worried about the efficiency loss and capacity of DC converters and not >>>>> sure how to size it. >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>>>> the other: >>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>> >>>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other: >> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > >
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