I'll double-check that, but I have a site with an undersized PV system and I'm pretty certain it reaches shutoff regularly and recovers without intervention.
On Fri, Oct 11, 2024, 6:22 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < [email protected]> wrote: > Interesting, because that has not been my experience, and Solark confirmed > that when the inverter shuts down, the PV charging does too. Maybe that > has changed in a firmware update. Or possibly, the inverter went through > LBCO on the output as you mentioned, then dropped further through the night > to shut down completely by the next morning. Either way, the system has > required manually resetting to start charging again. > > Ray Walters > On 10/11/2024 3:57 PM, Chris Sparadeo wrote: > > Hi Ray, > > I don’t think your understanding of the Sol Ark’s PV and LBCO relationship > reflects actual functionality. Technically, Sol Ark doesn’t have a formal > LBCO, but it has a “shut down” setting that cuts out AC output and can be > programmed to cut off and cut back in at selected SOC or voltage settings, > but as long as the battery is connected, the Sol Ark sees that voltage and > PV production if available, solar production will recharge batteries, > regardless of AC output. > > But yes, I agrees that AIO’s could use a healthy dose of redundancy to > allow for less fickle output. > > -Chris > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2024 at 5:26 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Another reason to do separate charge controllers is Low battery. If the >> AIO inverter hits its LBCO, then it takes out the PV input as well. Then >> the draw of the BCM takes what's left in the battery, and you're into a >> dark start. Generator won't even help. AIOs are easy to install, but not >> as full proof as DC coupled PV systems. Also, the inter communication is a >> major issue. I've seen inter connected charge controllers take each other >> out, which really defeats the redundancy of having multiple units. I'm >> sure many on the list will question my wisdom; but I usually don't >> interconnect any of the equipment from a comms stand point. I use open >> loop charging based on voltage. >> >> I once had a pinched temp sensor, that thought the batteries were at 5000 >> deg Kelvin. It shut all 4 inverters down. My most reliable multiple >> inverter setup is a four SW4048 system that is now 24 years old. Each >> inverter feeds one leg of two load centers. No comms, No 240 vac loads. >> No shut downs. That is the gold standard, and none of the AIO stuff, nor >> the module level rapid shutdown etc, can even get close to the level of >> reliability we had in the past. In the off grid world, shut downs can be >> life threatening, and all the additional "safety" stuff added to the code >> since, has actually made my off grid customers less safe. >> >> You have to think what happens if the battery gets low, and no one is >> home? Can it recover on its own, like a traditional DC coupled Lead acid >> system? Basically, If the system can't hit LBCO, recharge the next day, >> and automatically turn loads back on, we've gone backwards in our designs, >> and equipment selection. AIOs are inferior if they can't achieve this basic >> functionality. If UL standards are causing this, then those standards are >> incorrect for critical off grid and backup applications. >> >> Ray Walters >> Remote Solar >> On 10/10/2024 4:02 PM, Eric Smiley via RE-wrenches wrote: >> >> Install stand-alone charge controllers. That is the only way to get >> redundancy. >> >> Eric Smiley (he/him) - Design Manager >> >> 250.703.6004 >> [email protected] >> 888.386.0116 >> 3-4997 Polkey Rd, Duncan BC, V9L 6W3 >> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/4997+Polkey+Rd,%0D%0A++++++++++++++++++++++++++Duncan+BC,+V9L+6W3?entry=gmail&source=g> >> viridiansolar.ca >> <https://www.google.com/url?q=https://viridiansolar.ca&source=gmail-html&ust=1702155901939000&usg=AOvVaw3SHpXB-WRSlzWmjpz4htqG> >> >> >> >> Viridian Solar honours the ancestral grounds on which we live and provide >> services, recognising that these lands are unceded Indigenous territory. We >> are steadfast in our commitment to reconciliation and acknowledge the rich >> history and traditions that characterise this land that we all consider >> home. >> >> >> >> On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 at 14:59, Lou Russo via RE-wrenches < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Aloha All, >>> >>> Thank you Jason. This is a huge and surprising issue. So much so that I >>> dropped what I was doing and called Sol-Ark to confirm. Mind you this was >>> level 1 support, but I was told this is what the Sol-Arks are supposed to >>> do and it is a feature not a bug. Their take is if there is any fault on >>> any one string, the Sol-Ark assumes the worst and shuts everything down. >>> >>> I wonder what solutions could be implemented on future installs to >>> prevent this from happening? >>> >>> Aloha, >>> >>> Lou Russo >>> Owner >>> [email protected] >>> Office - 808 345 6762 >>> Spree Solar Systems LLC >>> CT-34322 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 11:45 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think it's more likely water in a J-box or possibly physical damage, >>>> but someone passed by the property and did not observe any physical damage >>>> to the array. >>>> >>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2024 at 5:41 PM Jay <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Jason >>>>> What’s the possibllity it was a lighting strike? >>>>> >>>>> Jay >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 10, 2024, at 2:57 PM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We have been talking a lot recently about all-in-ones. I just had a >>>>> massive fail during Hurricane Milton with a quad Sol-Ark 15K off-grid >>>>> system that deserves some discussion about whether AIO is a good idea if >>>>> it >>>>> can't build in some resilience to errors. I'm not sure if the new Midnite >>>>> unit is better in this respect, but this is what happened to the Sol-Ark >>>>> system... >>>>> >>>>> Four inverters, each with 4 strings of PV paralleled to 2 MPPT per >>>>> inverter. One of the slave units developed some sort of PV DC fault during >>>>> the storm. This caused the slave inverter to shut down and throw an error, >>>>> which in turn caused a parallel fault across all four inverters. Power >>>>> output ceases at that point. Apparently the system keeps resetting because >>>>> I have a cell modem that uploads data to Sol-Ark, but that cell modem is >>>>> powered by the inverter outputs, so it must be getting power at least >>>>> intermittently. The rest of the loads are basically flatlined according to >>>>> the Sol-Ark data. It's mostly air conditioners, so they probably can't >>>>> turn >>>>> on fast enough before the PV fault causes another shutdown. >>>>> >>>>> So, in essence, one of 16 strings of PV develops a fault, and that >>>>> causes all four inverters to malfunction? What is the point of redundancy >>>>> if a fault of one results in a fault of all?! If there is a true PV input >>>>> fault, shouldn't that just shut down that MPPT, or perhaps all of the PV >>>>> DC >>>>> input to that inverter? And why can't this inverter continue to invert >>>>> power from the batteries and charge from a generator when there is a DC >>>>> input fault that could be programmatically isolated and ignored? >>>>> >>>>> This is a bad design in my opinion, and something I hadn't considered. >>>>> If the faulted inverter can't function with a DC input fault, it should >>>>> just take itself out of the game. (This is 120/240 split phase, BTW). Is >>>>> this how all AIO inverters work? One inverter fault on the DC side kills >>>>> all paralleled units' AC output? Not good. >>>>> >>>>> This is a completely off-grid system on a remote island with no >>>>> vehicle access, so it's not exactly easy to do a "truck roll" on this one, >>>>> especially post-hurricane. To make matters worse, the generator was >>>>> running >>>>> at the time of the fault, as it was being signaled to run because the >>>>> battery had reached the assigned charge voltage. The fault also killed the >>>>> 2-wire start signal from the master, so the system also stopped passing >>>>> through generator power to the loads. The house is dark. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>> >>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>> >>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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When one doesn't work, try >>>> the other: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out or update participant bios: >>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try >>> the other: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & >> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the >> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> There are two list archives for searching. 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