So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend
a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get
the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my
aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have
enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and
eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No special
trip out.
We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake
up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the
offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self
healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an
amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.
(Danger Will Robinson)
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the
generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the
default function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off.
AC voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay
and turn the inverter back on automatically.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches <[email protected]> wrote:
All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the
gen to bypass the inverter and power loads.
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't"
<http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/
<https://offgridsolar1.com/><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>
e-mail [email protected] text 209 813 0060*
On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in
the logic for how generator integration works with this
product. Unlike some of the other AIOs, you can't put the
generator on the Grid input in an off-grid scenario. You have to
use the Generator smart load breaker, which isn't a dedicated
generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is problematic
because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay that
closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it
seems to work in my limited experience.
Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the
low voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the
inverter ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge
the battery, but since the battery is too low, the inverter won't
turn on. You would have to reprogram the inverter to drop the
cutoff voltage/SOC below the current battery state. For people
who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails to start the
generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the
battery manually is no easy task.
Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is
in an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not
turn the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter
turned ON somehow so that the generator power can pass through to
the loads. And since the startup sequence for this inverter is
very quirky, non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the
problem even worse. I'm not sure if you can even turn the
inverter ON when there is generator input and the battery is too
low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the
inverter doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF
state.
This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one
of the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and
EG4 18kPV will both immediately power loads and start charging
when the generator is on, regardless of whether the generator is
connected to the Grid or Generator input. Any AC input
immediately passes through to the loads. This is because those
inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, and they
simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery
conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff
is met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me.
Am I wrong about how this works?
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer
Florida Solar Design Group
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