Talking to Steve at Zonna about the problems with off grid equipment, he
recommended the EG4 6000XP as a good off grid inverter. He said they are
no longer made in China and are a very good product. Does anyone have
experience with that unit?
Thanks,
Drake
_Drake Chamberlin_
_Athens Electric LLC_
_Ohio Electrical Contractor's License 44810_
_NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional_
---
On 2025-05-12 13:11, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always
recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power
supply to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious
pain in my aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid
would have enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on,
and eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No
special trip out.
We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake
up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the
offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self
healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an
amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse.
(Danger Will Robinson)
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send
generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For
retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however.
As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical
bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator
input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default
function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC
voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and
turn the inverter back on automatically.
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group
NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)
Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956
Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208
On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite.
Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen to
bypass the inverter and power loads.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:
Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the
logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike
some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input
in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load
breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable
circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a normally open
internal relay that closes only when the inverter is ON. At least,
that's how it seems to work in my limited experience.
Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low
voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter
ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but
since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would
have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the
current battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS
fails to start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to
charge the battery manually is no easy task.
Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in an
OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the
inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON
somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And
since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky,
non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm
not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is generator
input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can because the
relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see generator voltage when
it is in an OFF state.
This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of the
other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV will
both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is
on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or
Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads.
This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition
is met, and they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the
battery conditions do not allow it, based on the settings.
The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is met
and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I wrong
about how this works?
Jason Szumlanski
Principal Solar Designer
Florida Solar Design Group
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