I "have been told" that you can do it with a Victron Cerbo. But, I have not tried it personally. I'm sure a Victron expert can chime in. I understand that the Cerbo can trigger a dry contact to serve as the Start stop. I monitor the AIO with a Cerbo but have not used it to control anything based on reported SOC.
On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:52 AM Jason Szumlanski < ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote: > Great info. > > Are there any AGS out there that can communicate with Pytes or other > batteries via RS-485 and trigger based on battery SOC rather than using raw > voltage? That would solve one issue. > > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group > NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) > Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 > Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 > > On Wed, May 14, 2025, 11:28 AM William Bryce via RE-wrenches < > re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > >> When using the AC input the substitute to use the AGS is to use an >> external AGS Start relay. There are many customers using big >> generators through the 100 Amp input with no issues. There is a request to >> modify the AGS to work with the 100 amp AC in. >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 11:09 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >> >>> Thank you for this information. Regarding the statement, "You can fully >>> use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is available at all >>> times, but you will lose the AGS..." >>> >>> I don't think MNS tech support knows this. I'm pretty sure Rick told me >>> no, and I know that Ronald unequivocally told me it was not allowed. >>> >>> What if the generator was connected to the grid input, but you still >>> programmed the generator Smart Load output for a generator, would the AGS >>> work in that case? Or if there is "Grid" voltage when the generator starts, >>> would that cause the AGS to disengage and then the process would repeat >>> itself in a loop? >>> >>> >>> Jason Szumlanski >>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>> >>> On Wed, May 14, 2025, 10:57 AM William Bryce < >>> wlbr...@pineridgeproducts.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Everyone, Please forgive MNS for not promptly responding to the >>>> questions. >>>> >>>> Midnite Solar does not currently have an official poster for the >>>> Wrenches List. Per the rules of the list, MNS is working to get a new Rep >>>> to work with the installers as we always have. >>>> >>>> To address the questions that were fielded: >>>> >>>> The solar array will continue to power the system and dark start the >>>> inverter if needed. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If you use the machine you can test. Just turn off ALL the Power, >>>> including the DC in from the battery. The screen will be dark and when you >>>> turn on the PV input the machine will go into standby. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If the machine shuts down due to a LVCO then it will auto restart (Via >>>> PV input) UNLESS the "Min Initiation Startup (off Grid)" setting is not >>>> reached. It will charge the battery until that setting is reached then turn >>>> on the inverter. >>>> >>>> >>>> If the Shutdown was because of a PV Insulation *Fault* or some other >>>> critical ESS fault it will not restart until that issue is corrected. You >>>> can blame that on the UL code writers as it is REQUIRED to get the UL >>>> certifications. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We also do full generator passthrough just like all other AIO's. And >>>> yes as pointed out several times on the forum the relay for the >>>> generator is not closed, as the inverter qualifies the generator before it >>>> closes. The reason is that we can use the PV input and the generator at the >>>> same time. But, it is monitored so you do not blow us the generator if the >>>> PV exceeds the Gen input and the load or charging drops. Is this perfect? >>>> No, it needs some work. The current AGS is basic and needs work. >>>> >>>> >>>> You can fully use the 100 Amp AC input for Generator input, and it is >>>> available at all times, but you will lose the AGS. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Everyone at MNS is taking notes of all the issues with the Current >>>> AIO's (all brands including our AIO), and the state of China made / China >>>> supported inverters. >>>> >>>> >>>> MNS will be looking to reset the market soon with a New, US Made, >>>> Designed, and supported AIO (not just assembled from China parts like some >>>> others with the same firmware). Using proven SiC Fet technology (Rosie >>>> inverter technology). With a full set of controls for LA batteries, and >>>> Generator, just like in the old days. Touch Screen programming, and self >>>> hosted web server remote accesses and control, not data sent to the cloud. >>>> If you worry about support, and security, then this inverter will address >>>> these needs. All the firmware is written in house, PCB boards populated >>>> inhouse, and components origins verified. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We will not say more because of MNS bad reputation of *announcing and >>>> not delivering*, so in the next 6 months, we will have something great >>>> to offer. We are going back to our Roots (Trace, Outback, and >>>> Magnum, can all be linked back to this team). >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> >>>> On behalf of Midnite Solar >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 14, 2025 at 9:56 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches < >>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed (i.e.out >>>>> of fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution. >>>>> >>>>> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled with >>>>> a NO relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The generator >>>>> input logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it should be >>>>> able >>>>> to charge the battery without user intervention. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches < >>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Jason, >>>>>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter >>>>>> gets to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have closed >>>>>> loop comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first Midnite >>>>>> AIO setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work with >>>>>> that yet. >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Dave >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < >>>>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That has not been my experience. I have had to manually reboot >>>>>>> Solark systems numerous time off grid. If there is snow on the array or >>>>>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then >>>>>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off. This >>>>>>> would >>>>>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming >>>>>>> back. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark: its really >>>>>>> not clear what the different settings do, and how they interact. I'm >>>>>>> sure >>>>>>> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At least >>>>>>> you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't have >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated, >>>>>>> 10 years from now, and you can't access the programming? Planned >>>>>>> Obsolescence? That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid >>>>>>> clients. In the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in >>>>>>> the background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc. >>>>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile >>>>>>> 707-884-1862 office >>>>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com >>>>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>>>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>>>>>> <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always >>>>>>> recommend a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power >>>>>>> supply >>>>>>> to get the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain >>>>>>> in my >>>>>>> aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have >>>>>>> enough >>>>>>> voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and eventually the >>>>>>> customer could get the inverter back on too. No special trip out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and >>>>>>> wake up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the >>>>>>> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self >>>>>>> healing >>>>>>> like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an amazing >>>>>>> amount of >>>>>>> new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. (Danger Will >>>>>>> Robinson) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and >>>>>>> send generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For >>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical >>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the >>>>>>> generator input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the >>>>>>> default >>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC >>>>>>> voltage >>>>>>> on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and turn the >>>>>>> inverter back on automatically. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>>>>> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the >>>>>>>> gen to bypass the inverter and power loads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>>>>> <https://offgridsolar1.com/> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>>>>> e-mail offgridso...@sti.net <offgridso...@sti.net> >>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in >>>>>>>> the logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike >>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input >>>>>>>> in an >>>>>>>> off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load breaker, >>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>> isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable circuit. This is >>>>>>>> problematic because it seemingly has a normally open internal relay >>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>> closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, that's how it seems to >>>>>>>> work >>>>>>>> in my limited experience. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low >>>>>>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter >>>>>>>> ON >>>>>>>> for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, but >>>>>>>> since >>>>>>>> the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You would have to >>>>>>>> reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC below the current >>>>>>>> battery state. For people who do not want to use AGS, or if AGS fails >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> start the generator for any reason, getting the generator to charge the >>>>>>>> battery manually is no easy task. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in >>>>>>>> an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn >>>>>>>> the inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON >>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. And >>>>>>>> since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, >>>>>>>> non-intuitive, >>>>>>>> and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm not sure if you >>>>>>>> can >>>>>>>> even turn the inverter ON when there is generator input and the >>>>>>>> battery is >>>>>>>> too low. I don't think you can because the relay is open and the >>>>>>>> inverter >>>>>>>> doesn't even see generator voltage when it is in an OFF state. >>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of >>>>>>>> the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV >>>>>>>> will >>>>>>>> both immediately power loads and start charging when the generator is >>>>>>>> on, >>>>>>>> regardless of whether the generator is connected to the Grid or >>>>>>>> Generator >>>>>>>> input. Any AC input immediately passes through to the loads. This is >>>>>>>> because those inverters stay "on" when a low battery condition is met, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> they simply stop using the battery to invert power if the battery >>>>>>>> conditions do not allow it, based on the settings. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is >>>>>>>> met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I >>>>>>>> wrong >>>>>>>> about how this works? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer >>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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