Which version? > On May 14, 2025, at 10:57 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just as an aside, is anyone else having major noise problems with the EG4 > inverters? We’ve only sold one and its output is – seriously -- 90 > decibels. My customer is rather deaf but his wife is not and it’s driving > her/them nuts. I am rather reluctant to sell another unless they have a > separate power shed or the like. > > Chris Daum > Oasis Montana Inc. > > From: RE-wrenches <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Maverick > Brown via RE-wrenches > Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2025 10:18 AM > To: RE-wrenches <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: Maverick Brown <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite AIO Generator Functionality > > In the case of extra redundancy, I have installed the EG4 Chargeverter and a > 30A L14-30 Inlet and made the customer a suitable length L14-30 Extension > Cord that they can use with their manual start secondary / tertiary portable > generator just in case the primary generator has failed to start. The > Chargeverter is quite small and can handle about 5kW of charge just in case… > The charge voltage is programmable as is the current. It is inverter and > battery agnostic. > > The Chargeverter used to be inexpensive compared to what it does. The last > time I checked it is over $700 and also always seems to be on backorder. > Still worth it. The Chargeverter has two wire start and can start based on > voltage and SOC (if that is where the batteries are communicating / not that > useful for most cases). > > If the Chargeverter is the primary generator AC to DC Charger, all AIO > inverters could benefit from DC Generator = Y / N setting. Reference : > Available setting on XW and Outback. > > For that matter, I am sure there are other suitable chargers that can be > added as an emergency spare. Ten years ago or more, I added an IOTA charger > to 24V FX inverter so the customer could use their Honda 2000 to charge the > battery without the warbling electricity going into the house because FX sans > PF correction… Remember those fun days? > > Grid > > Inverter / Battery / Solar > >> Generator > >>> Generator > >>>> Candles > > > <image001.jpg> > > > > Maverick Brown > Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006 > Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc. > • Solar Commander Remote Power > • SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > 512-460-9825 > > >> On May 14, 2025, at 8:55 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> That is the idea, but the generator startup is not guaranteed (i.e.out of >> fuel, battery dead, etc). It's not a failsafe solution. >> >> The AIO really needs a dedicated GEN input that is not controlled with a NO >> relay. Or let us use the Grid input for the generator. The generator input >> logic is severely flawed. If there is an AC source, it should be able to >> charge the battery without user intervention. >> >> >> Jason Szumlanski >> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >> >> On Mon, May 12, 2025, 5:25 PM Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches >> <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> Jason, >>> Cant you just make the AGS turn on the generator before the inverter gets >>> to the LBCO? Maybe this is more difficult if you do not have closed loop >>> comms and the SOC drifts. I am just working through my first Midnite AIO >>> setup now, so I cannot speak to the nuances of how it will work with that >>> yet. >>> Cheers, >>> Dave >>> >>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 4:01 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>> <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> That has not been my experience. I have had to manually reboot Solark >>>> systems numerous time off grid. If there is snow on the array or >>>> otherwise low PV output for a few days, the no load draw of the BMS then >>>> takes the battery voltage low enough to shut the battery off. This would >>>> be a different situation with a knowledgeable owner onsite full time, but >>>> for vacation properties, it will go into complete shut down, not coming >>>> back. >>>> Which gets into the manual and tech support for Solark: its really not >>>> clear what the different settings do, and how they interact. I'm sure >>>> there are engineers that know, but they aren't at Tech support. At least >>>> you can change the programming on the touch screen, and you don't have to >>>> get a quirky app up off grid to do basic changes. >>>> BTW, what happens when the developers quit keeping the App updated, 10 >>>> years from now, and you can't access the programming? Planned >>>> Obsolescence? That 33 yr old Trace Inverter is still doing its job..... >>>> Ray Walters >>>> Remote Solar >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/12/2025 11:33 AM, MDElectricSolar via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>> We have been using the Solark inverter for GTBB and off grid clients. In >>>>> the case of low battery cut out the solar does stay alive in the >>>>> background and will recharge the batteries when the sun comes out the >>>>> next day and turn itself back on and provide AC power output. >>>>> >>>>> Michael D Nelson >>>>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc. >>>>> 707-684-0064 mobile >>>>> 707-884-1862 office >>>>> www.mdelectricsolar.com <http://www.mdelectricsolar.com/> >>>>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar >>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On May 12, 2025, at 10:13 AM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> So the bypass switch gets the house power on, and I too always recommend >>>>>> a hard bypass switch. However, you still need a 48 v power supply to get >>>>>> the battery system back up, and that's becoming a serious pain in my >>>>>> aging backside. Until AIOs with Li+ batteries, lead acid would have >>>>>> enough voltage to get the charge controller to come back on, and >>>>>> eventually the customer could get the inverter back on too. No special >>>>>> trip out. >>>>>> We need an independent circuit that would sense array voltage, and wake >>>>>> up the battery, so it could take a charge: a backup battery for the >>>>>> offgrid battery. Without that, AIOs and Li+ batteries are not self >>>>>> healing like Lead Acid. We are going backwards fast, but with an >>>>>> amazing amount of new Chinese technology driving the jalopy in reverse. >>>>>> (Danger Will Robinson) >>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>> On 5/12/2025 10:54 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>> We always recommend a transfer switch to bypass the inverter and send >>>>>>> generator power to the loads. Most clients take us up on it. For >>>>>>> retrofits, sometimes there can be space limitations, however. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As for the function of the AIO, there is no integrated mechanical >>>>>>> bypass, and since there is an internal relay controlling the generator >>>>>>> input (or smart load output on that breaker), I think the default >>>>>>> function is for the relay to open when the inverter turns off. AC >>>>>>> voltage on the load side of the breaker does not close the relay and >>>>>>> turn the inverter back on automatically. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP) >>>>>>> Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956 >>>>>>> Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 12, 2025 at 9:49 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via >>>>>>> RE-wrenches <[email protected] >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>>>>>> All sounds wrong to me. Call Midnite. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Typically there is a AC bypass mechanical switch that allows the gen >>>>>>>> to bypass the inverter and power loads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar >>>>>>>> "we go where powerlines don't" >>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/ >>>>>>>> <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/> >>>>>>>> e-mail [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>> text 209 813 0060 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2025-05-12 9:29 am, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote: >>>>>>>>> Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems like there is a flaw in the >>>>>>>>> logic for how generator integration works with this product. Unlike >>>>>>>>> some of the other AIOs, you can't put the generator on the Grid input >>>>>>>>> in an off-grid scenario. You have to use the Generator smart load >>>>>>>>> breaker, which isn't a dedicated generator input, but a programmable >>>>>>>>> circuit. This is problematic because it seemingly has a normally open >>>>>>>>> internal relay that closes only when the inverter is ON. At least, >>>>>>>>> that's how it seems to work in my limited experience. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Why is this a problem? If the battery capacity drops below the low >>>>>>>>> voltage cutoff, the inverter turns off. You have to turn the inverter >>>>>>>>> ON for the generator relay to close so you can charge the battery, >>>>>>>>> but since the battery is too low, the inverter won't turn on. You >>>>>>>>> would have to reprogram the inverter to drop the cutoff voltage/SOC >>>>>>>>> below the current battery state. For people who do not want to use >>>>>>>>> AGS, or if AGS fails to start the generator for any reason, getting >>>>>>>>> the generator to charge the battery manually is no easy task. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Moreover, turning the generator on manually when the inverter is in >>>>>>>>> an OFF state will not pass power to the loads, and will not turn the >>>>>>>>> inverter ON automatically. You have to get the inverter turned ON >>>>>>>>> somehow so that the generator power can pass through to the loads. >>>>>>>>> And since the startup sequence for this inverter is very quirky, >>>>>>>>> non-intuitive, and unreliable, that makes the problem even worse. I'm >>>>>>>>> not sure if you can even turn the inverter ON when there is generator >>>>>>>>> input and the battery is too low. I don't think you can because the >>>>>>>>> relay is open and the inverter doesn't even see generator voltage >>>>>>>>> when it is in an OFF state. >>>>>>>>> This seems like a serious oversight and a reason to go with one of >>>>>>>>> the other AIOs on the market. I believe the Sol-Ark 15K and EG4 18kPV >>>>>>>>> will both immediately power loads and start charging when the >>>>>>>>> generator is on, regardless of whether the generator is connected to >>>>>>>>> the Grid or Generator input. Any AC input immediately passes through >>>>>>>>> to the loads. This is because those inverters stay "on" when a low >>>>>>>>> battery condition is met, and they simply stop using the battery to >>>>>>>>> invert power if the battery conditions do not allow it, based on the >>>>>>>>> settings. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The logic of the Midnite AIOs turning "off" when battery cutoff is >>>>>>>>> met and opening the generator relay doesn't make sense to me. Am I >>>>>>>>> wrong about how this works? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>>>>> Principal Solar Designer >>>>>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> <http://re-wrenches.org/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> There are two list archives for searching. 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