I fully support Jason's views.
he is not trying to say XML is good or better than anything... only that its
actually being used. Its dumb enough that any idiot can grasp an XML file
itself, and in fact a good reason why its like it is.
any thing not XML compatible in 2007, is well, pretty irrelevent in the
larger world of computing.
having XML i/o in REBOL is something which should be addressed natively, but
as an external module. link to any xml lib out there, and just abuse it
freely. any one doing large scale developpment, cares 0% for the transport,
they just want it to get in and get out. what happens in between is REBOL's
strength. right now... implementing REAL xml is a MAJOR pain in REBOL.
I know cause I spent 3 months reading the xml w3c 80 page "summary"
implementing a schema validator natively in REBOL (private, closed source
effort) and its a HELLISH endeavour. it works, but not everything is
included, simply cause there is SO MUCH to implement and because half of the
spec is useless ... you can just structure your schema differently to get
the same xml document in many cases.
just namespacing is enough to keep you from keeping 100% of your sanity.
-MAx
On 9/9/07, Alessandro Manotti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> regarding XML. Even if I think XML support can be important, I hope that
> Rebol will never concentrate its functioning over xml self.
> Since Rebol blocks are more flexible, easier to read, etc...
>
> Furthermore, there is no need to use a special editor to edit Rebol blocks
> ;-).
>
> Many editors exist for XML even because XML is not so easy to be red when
> contains a lot of data.
>
> Javascript? Well, if you compare Rebol and Javascript, it means you did
> not
> get the full power of Rebol. Furthermore is difficult to compare an
> imperative language with a functional language.
>
> (just my opinion. If I understood what you said. Sorry, I'm italian and
> sometimes I have problems to read English).
>
>
>
>
>
> On 9/9/07, Jason Cunliffe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Carl's points about XML are all quite valid and pertinent- but the story
> > does not end there, and he left some important things out...
> >
> > a ~ Like it or not XML is widely used as a structuring markup for
> > transport between systems, languages etc. It's the interoperability that
> > counts.
> > REBOL is glorious but thus far little known or used in the world. The
> > smartest most elegant best solution is not the only criteria we need to
> > consider. Sorry {truly}
> >
> >
> > b ~ It may be boring and verbose, but it is also easy to understand,
> > especially for machines and scripts written by humans for programs and
> > machines.
> > Cool uses of XML in the world ? RSS syndication, XMLRPC and Jabber
> > [XMPP]...
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/*RSS*_(file_format)
> > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML-RPC
> > www.jabber.org/
> > en.*wikipedia*.org/wiki/Extensible_Messaging_and_Presence_Protocol
> >
> >
> >
> > c ~ There are numerous libraries now for passing using XML more easily
> > and more efficiently.
> > And there are some superb XML editors which quite transform the job --
> > OXYGEN, XMLSpy, Stylus Studio for example:
> > www.*oxygenxml*.com
> > www.Altova.com/*XML*Spy
> > www.stylusstudio.com/*XML-Tools*
> >
> > To really enjoy the benefits one must try out the the advanced pro
> > versions of these [not free but can download demos].
> > Awesome in these are the schema and XSLT handling functions. For example
> > open an XML file and immediately parse and generate a valid Schema.
> > Save. Now go write a new XML file using that schema -- et voila --
> > really nice in-line prompts make this a joy.
> > Now switch to another view like a grid or hide the <tag> structured part
> > of the code.. ahha yes yes this makes sense and takes the pain away to
> > reveal the gains.
> >
> > d ~ Trends are clearly towards much more powerful friendly intelligent
> > ways to handle it - XML object serialization, JSON, E4X.
> > http://www.json.org/
> >
> > For example E4X is the new ECMAscript [Javascript] extension which at
> > last provides a sane and sensible alternative..
> >
> > * |<order id="1234">
> > <customer><name>Joe Green</name>
> > <address><street>410 Main</street>
> > <city>York</city><state>VT</state>
> > </address>
> > </customer>
> > <item>. . .</item>
> > <item>
> > <make>Acme</make>
> > <model>Framistat</model>
> > <price>2.50</price>
> > <qty>30</qty>
> > </item>
> > </order>|
> > * |var address = order.customer.address;|
> > * |var second = order.item[1];|
> > * |second.total = second.qty * second.price;|
> > *
> >
> > * |var order = <order><customer>. . .</customer>
> > <item><price>5</price><qty>10</qty></item>
> > <item level="rush">
> > <price>2.5</price>
> > <qty>30</qty>
> > </item>
> > <item level="rush">
> > <price>1.5</price>
> > <qty>50</qty>
> > </item>
> > </order>;|
> > * |var items = order.item; // XMLList of item el'ts |
> > * |var prices = order..price;|
> > * |var urgentItems = order.item.(@level == "rush");|
> > * |var itemAttrs = [EMAIL PROTECTED];|
> >
> > yes linear dotted notation parses the structure by NAMEs
> > @ symbol accesses XML attributes cleanly [hooray]
> > .. double dots get multiples
> > [] access array items by index
> > * wildcards do what you need them to
> > inclusion of variables etc etc
> > use E4X to read and write :-)
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E4X
> > Nice slide show at
> > http://developer.mozilla.org/presentations/xtech2005/e4x/
> >
> > e ~ AS3 Actionscript 3 now includes E4X . Flash and Flex, AIR
> > programmers can all benefit. Good news is that Adobe after buying
> > Macromedia built it into the free cross platform Flash9 runtime player
> > and then open sourced it :-) So this important gift-back by Adobe is now
> > called TAMARIN, open source implementation of ECMAscript, a free virtual
> > machine and just in time compiler
> > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamarin_(JIT)
> >
> >
> >
> > f ~ Those hideous XML tags vs. Attributes
> > In most examples people provide of how horrible is XML, they show only
> > nested tags for ever and from hell. This makes a point, but in reality
> > using XML attributes _appropriately_ instead of tags in the XML source
> > makes it much easier to understand, and far less verbose.
> >
> > g ~ XSLT and REBOL
> > Although it is not very pretty XSLT actually has a *lot* in common with
> > rebol
> >
> > h ~ What's next ?
> > Well I hope that R3 provides a really smooth path for XML input and
> > output - truly compatible with the new E4X approach
> >
> > ** Finally Adobe 'Tamarin' and open sourcing of Flash/Flex opens up the
> > game for Rebol graphic options.
> > I'm thinking it might be a modest investment now which could update
> > Oldes brilliant Rebol/Flash dialect and integrate it into the R3
> > official GUI toolbox **
> > http://oldes.multimedia.cz/swf/
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > --
> > To unsubscribe from the list, just send an email to
> > lists at rebol.com with unsubscribe as the subject.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> //Alessandro
>
> http://sguish.wordpress.com
> http://laccio.wordpress.com
>
>
> --
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>
>
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