I didn't say it was all defense, but you're trying to completely ignore it. The defensive numbers went from worst to second best (minus 79 to plus 54) and -- with very little change in the pitching -- they suddenly surrendered fewer runs. Sure, the pitching got a little better, but you don't want to attribute any of those 273 fewer runs allowed to the defense? Everyone on the staff started mysteriously pitching better when Brendan Harris wasn't throwing balls into the first base dugout? I don't know what you're trying to say about their defense not doing the job because the Sox had a better run differential -- unless the sarcasm is slipping right past me? Defense, to the best of my knowledge can only affect the runs allowed, not the runs scored, so it's only responsible for part of the run differential.
I thought you'd be with me on this ... I feel so alone. Steve O On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, if you're looking at Run Differential then Tampa came in behind the > Sox that year. The Sox had a better expected win number of 95 (which they > hit.) The Rays had an expected win number of 91 (but won 97). So if we're > looking at Run Differential, the Rays defense didn't do the job. > > Tampa's ERA was 3.82 that year. You're telling that their pitchers didn't > learn a thing or two? > > There's no way defense made the difference. > > This ain't football. Defense is for highlight reels and playoff games. > Pitching and Hitting are for getting in the playoffs. > > > On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Steve Ouellette > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> OK then, let's go all the way back to 2008, when the Rays were second in >> defense and the Phillies were third. >> >> In fact, the Rays are the perfect example for this argument. In 2007, they >> were dead last in all baseball defensively. They scored 782 runs but allowed >> 944 and finished with 66 wins. >> >> In 2008, they improved their defense tremendously at 2b, SS, 3B and RF. >> The pitching rotation was essentially the same -- except for Matt Garza, who >> went 11-9 as a rookie -- and the offense scored FEWER runs (774), but the >> Rays allowed just 671. They won 31 more games and, if I remember correctly, >> reached the World Series. >> >> The Red Sox weren't as terrible as that defensively and don't have as much >> room for improvement, so no, I don't think they can shed 273 runs allowed. >> But 50 to 75? I can see that without a problem, and I honestly don't see >> them losing that much offensively. Which means an even better run >> differential and 95 or more wins again. Won't necessarily mean they beat the >> Yankees in the regular season, but they're in the mix. >> >> Steve O >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Ray Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Yes, I am saying that the best defensive teams didn't win last year, so >>> defense doesn't matter -- much. It matters a little, but it doesn't matter >>> enough to delude ourselves into thinking that a strong defense makes a team >>> great. >>> >>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Steve Ouellette <[email protected] >>> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And I don't know what Ray is trying to say. The best defensive teams >>>> didn't win last year, so defense doesn't matter? >>>> >>>> I don't think anyone expected that ragtag collection the Mariners threw >>>> out there to win 85 games last year and have the best ERA in the American >>>> League. That defense (and that park) made Jarrod Washburn a star, and he >>>> flat out sucks. Nobody predicted San Francisco, the top defensive team in >>>> the NL, to win 88 games either. Some experts thought they'd be the worst >>>> team in the league. >>>> >>>> The difference between those teams and the Sox is that Boston also has a >>>> very competitive offense. I'm looking forward to 2010. >>>> >>>> Steve O >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 2:27 PM, Tom Salemi <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree with the first part, and I'm fine with that. I trust Theo's >>>>> measure of value. He's right a lot more than he's wrong, with the most >>>>> glaring example of the latter being Texiera, but the Yanks probably would >>>>> have just bid $1 more. >>>>> >>>>> And I'm on board with his signing Lackey. Love the deal. And Beltre is >>>>> a good deal as well for the Sox as well. Gives us great flexibility. >>>>> >>>>> But I'm just not buying the notion that we've disovered the secretthat >>>>> defense is the THE key to winning, and that's why we're adding capable >>>>> fielders. We signed the capable fielders because they're willing to play >>>>> for >>>>> short money. >>>>> . >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Steve Ouellette < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Really? It seems obvious to me that -- unable or unwilling to pony up >>>>>> for Holliday or Bay -- the Sox decided to focus on defense and pitching. >>>>>> >>>>>> Steve O >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> But I'm not going to lean too heavily on the defense argument. It >>>>>>> just strikes me more as a justification for deals that have happened >>>>>>> than an >>>>>>> explanation of why the Sox made the deals in the first place. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>>>> . >>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>>> . >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>>> . >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in >>> Just 12 Weeks" >>> www.leadingafteralayoff.com >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Red Sox Citizens" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. >> >> > > > -- > Author of "Leading After a Layoff: Reignite Your Team's Productivity in > Just 12 Weeks" > www.leadingafteralayoff.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Red Sox Citizens" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]<redsoxcitizens%[email protected]> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/redsoxcitizens?hl=en. > >--
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