I cannot vouch for the story, but someone I thought at the time was reliable (a clerk?) tells me that Burger was so pedantic about not using the F word in Cohens that Harlan-hardly a libertine- was so put off that he insisted on using the F word spelled out simply to spite Burger. It is not the only spite Burger story circulating Marc Stern -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rick Duncan Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:38 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: F--- The Draft
Another observation about how far we have gone over the cliff: We have gone from cases deciding whether a person could be punished for saying "f--- the draft" to cases deciding whether a deeply religious student can be punished for refusing to say the "F" word. Is this cultural progress or what? Rick Duncan --- "A.E. Brownstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There are a lot of threads here. > > 1. My daughter's willingness to sing religious songs > of other faiths when > she was in the High School Choir, and her comfort > level with such > performances, was heavily influenced by the > diversity or lack of diversity > of the program. If songs of different faiths were > included, I think she > felt more distance between the personal beliefs of > the singers and the > message of the lyrics. She also thought that a > diverse program was > respectful of the diversity of the choir members and > the community. > > 2. I'm not sure there is an exact analogy between an > actor reciting lines > spoken by a character in a play and a singer in a > choir. I think the former > conveys more of a feeling and a message that "This > is not me" than the > latter. Since I have never had sufficient talent to > do either, my intuition > may be wrong on this. > > 3. In the twenty years I have been teaching free > speech issues, I have > never felt the need to use examples of racial or > religious epithets in > class, or to display pornographic images, or to > recite George Carlin's > dirty words. (I do say "Fuck the Draft" when we talk > about Cohen v. > California.) I don't think this has made my classes > less effective. I have > never spoken with a student who seemed to have any > doubts about what the > class was referring to -- without having the words > or pictures explicitly > expressed. > > In speaking with students about other classes and > out of class > presentations, my sense is that such language and > images will cause some > students significant discomfort. It will distract > others and silence some > students. Different students have very different > attitudes about racial > epithets and pornography. Other professors follow > different pedagogical > protocols, based on a different evaluation of the > costs and benefits of > including specific terms and pictures. > > When we deal with certain subjects, I switch from > calling on students to > asking for volunteers. That seems to work reasonably > well too. > > Alan Brownstein > UC Davis > > > At 09:44 PM 2/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Richard Dougherty asks: > > > > > >Sandy: > >Why your hesitancy in speaking of the Messiah? How > would you distinguish > >that from requiring Inherit the Wind? > >Richard Dougherty > > > > > >The Messiah evokes in me memories of my elementary > school classes going > >over to the First Methodist Church every Christmas > season to sing > >Christmas carols and my discomfort at singing > "Christ the Lord" (in O Come > >All Ye Faithful) or "Jesus our Savior" (in I Wonder > as I Wonder), both > >beautiful songs that I was more than happy to sing > except for the quoted > >language (at which I was simply silent). I presume > that I couldn't do > >that as a member of a college choir! I suppose, > when all is said and > >done, I would view my participation as indeed the > equivalent of acting, > >where the lines one reads are merely external, as > it were, having nothing > >to do with one's internal state of mine. > > > >If The Messiah is all right, at the end of the day, > I should note that I > >would have much more trouble with Bach's St. John's > Passion, which I > >regard as an anti-Jewish (and not simply > pro-Christian, as with the > >Messiah) work. I would have far more trouble > distancing myself from some > >of the lines, and I am also concerned that in its > own way it helps to keep > >alive the notion that Jews as collectively guilty > of deicide. > > > >Thie might be an appropriate occasion to ask for > help from the list, > >either onlist or off, with regard to the following: > I have been honored > >by an invitation from UCLA to deliver the Melville > Nimmer lecture this > >coming fall. I have chosen "The Pedagogy of the > First Amendment" as my > >topic, by which I mean to refer to the problems > that arise in the very > >teaching of certain First Amendment topics--e.g., > pornography, hate > >speech, offensive speech--without bringing > them--e.g., pornography, hate > >speech, offensive speech--into the classroom itself > (otherwise how would > >one know what one is referring to when one condemns > a completely abstract > >notion called "hate" or "offensive" speech?). One > of the reasons I > >stopped teaching a course on the "First Amendment" > is that I couldn't > >figure out how to teach *about* pornography, hate > speech, or offensive > >speech, without bringing them into the class, as it > were. > > > >I would be extremely grateful to any reflections > (or anecdotes) any of you > >might be willing to share about how you handle such > subjects. I take it, > >for example, that none of us is hesitant to offer > examples of "seditious" > >speech, including speech calling for the violent > overthrow of the American > >government. Presumably we're speaking in a > third-person voice, and it > >would be unacceptable for a student to say, "I'm > offended by the very > >presentationn of words indicating a desire to > overthrow the government and > >kill its leaders." But for many contemporary > professors, I suspect, we > >accept such protests if they involve pornography, > religious or ethnic hate > >speech, or the use of certain offensive words. The > connection between > >paragraph two and three is that I would be quite > willing to offer the St. > >John's Passion as an example of "offensive" speech > in my class, including > >repeating the anti-Jewish passages and, indeed, a > host of similar passages > >from what are regarded as "great" works in the > canon of Western literature > >and music. If I am unwilling to sing the St. > John's Passion, or would > >even be upset if it were on the college choir's > program, should I be > >hesitant to assign it as part of my course? > > > >sandy > > > >_______________________________________________ > >To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > >http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get > password, see > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > ===== Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow Galahad or Mordred; middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
