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As someone I respect highly said: "you have to keep shooting down FUD whenever it appears". On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 09:08, you wrote: <snip> > In a message dated 4/16/2004 7:26:46 AM Central Standard Time, <snip> > Actually, at least half of all Israelis are from Middle Eastern countries > and their population is growing rapidly! (You can check the census records > for yourself!) Their parents and grandparents were forced to leave their > homes (and all their belongings) where they had lived for centuries when > the Arab governments either made it too difficult for them to live there or > actually evicted them en masse. True; but they were only evicted after the 14th of May, 1948, and sometimes it took a year for the eviction to take effect. A clear case of revenge. > > "The various efforts for peace between Israelis and Palestinians have > overlooked an important factor concerning the Arab - Israeli Conflict. The > displacement of 850.000 Jews from Arab countries, the loss of all their > assets and property, and the hardships accompanying their migration and > emigration to Israel, constitute an aspect of the Middle East refugee > problem which has been neglected. As almost half of the Jewish citizens of > Israel, together with their descendants, are from Arab countries, peace > research and future peace efforts should take this important part of the > history of the conflict into account, and to address it, in all its complex > aspects." > (http://www.hsje.org/forcedmigration.htm) I don't have any objection to that. > > Another fact that you are ignoring is that the vast majority of > "Palestinians" also came from Arab countries and have no relationship to > Israel's land (including Judea, Samaria, and Gaza) prior to a generation or > two at most! "Much of the Arab population in this area actually migrated > into Israel and Judea and Samaria from the surrounding Arab countries in > the past 100 years. The rebirth of Israel was accompanied by economic > prosperity for the region. Arabs migrated to this area to find employment > and enjoy the higher standard of living. In documents not more than hundred > years, the area is described as a scarcely populated region. Jews by far > were the majority in Jerusalem over the small Arab minority. Until the Oslo > agreement the major source of income for Arab residents was employment in > the Israeli sector. To this day, many Arabs try to migrate into Israel with > various deceptions to become a citizen of Israel." > (http://www.science.co.il/History-Palestine.asp) www.science.co.il are lying through their teeth. We've been over this so many times it's not funny. When one gets down to the nitty-gritty, one discovers that all this is based on a few, very old lies told by Zionists to support their claim about "a land without people for a people without a land". As such, I regard it as a libel. > There are also a great many Israelis who can trace their ancestries back > for 10 or 15 generations of unbroken residence in their Homeland, > especially those who live in Jerusalem. And, until the Arabs massacred the > Jews of Hebron in 1929, and the British forced the survivors to leave (much > like Sharon is contemplating now in Gaza and Judea/Samaria) the same was > true for the Jews there. That's not a problem - one could also say the same about the Christian Arab minority - that they've been there since the end of the Great Revolt - and guess what! Some actually still speak Aramaic. So that's a major part of the evidence on their part - or are you denying the place of Aramaic in the Jerusalem-to-Babylon world of that time? > And, if you are so sure that "Palestine", the > country, goes back through most of recorded history, I expect you to be > able to answer a few basic questions about the country of Palestine. (Don't > forget to include your sources.) When was it founded and by whom? What > documents are available to verify this? Mandatory Palestine, drongo. That established a state called Palestine, modelled after the Roman provinces of Iudaea, Samaria and Galilee - because the League of Nations gentry who drew up the maps were nearly all Christian, and couldn't imagine any other situation. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/palmanda.htm > > What were its borders prior to 1947 when Israel was formed from the > Palestine Mandate? Mandatory Palestine. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/palmanda.htm > > Why are the "Palestinians" not claiming Jordan as their country since it > was also formed from the Palestine Mandate and they actually received the > vast majority of the land in the partition? Because that's isn't Palestine, you drongo. Use your head. If they weren't in Trans-Jordan during the Mandatory period, then they're not Jordanians unless they have been granted citizenship. Ask any Jordanian - but I forgot, Dafna, you'd NEVER ask anyone anything. > > What was its capital? What were its major cities? What constituted the > basis of its economy? Jerusalem. Haifa. Nazareth. Etc. Horticulture, for the most part; trade in citrus fruits and olives. > > When were its oldest institutions of higher learning established? That depends on what you term "higher learning". If you include the religious institutions attached to the various religious organizations, then you're talking way, way back in time. > > Where are the foreign embassies located? Which countries exchange > ambassadors with Palestine? > What was its form of government prior to the Palestine Mandate? The northen part was part of the Vilayet (province) of Beirut; the rest was part of the Sanjak (autonomous region) of Jerusalem. > Who did the "Palestinians" trade with at any time prior to the past 50 > years? Europeans; the rest of the Middle East. > Can you name at least one "Palestinian" president before Arafat (who > is an Egyptian!)? Re: Yasser Arafat. Both his parents were born in Palestine, one in Jerusalem, on in Gaza; under the citizenship law of jus sanguinis - citizenship by descent - that makes Yasser Arafat a Palestinian. If you doubt me, go ask your local friendly citizenship lawyer. > Was Palestine ever recognized as a separate country by any nation that was > not Arab itself? What date did that recognition take place? Mandatory Palestine. http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/palmanda.htm > What does getting a passport from the country of Palestine require? What > did it require in the 1920's? In the 1850's? Since during the 1850s it was part and parcel of the Ottoman Empire, getting a passport meant applying to the Ottoman authorities, same as in Damascus, same as in Cairo, same as in Beirut ... the way getting a British passport before the breakup of the British Empire meant approaching the British authorities - which is how British travel documents were supplied to the various Jewish migrants to Palestine. Modern day Palestinian passports - I don't know that they exist. But then Israel never permitted Palestinians control over their own borders, in direct violation of the relevant international law. You don't really have much of a clue, do you, Dafna?!? > What are the cultural variations that differentiate Palestine from all > other Arab countries and how did they develop over the centuries? > What was the name of its currency prior to 1967? What is its currency > today? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate > exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, > German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date. http://user.dtcc.edu/~berlin/palestin/palestin.htm As it would've been tied to the British pound before the breakup and collapse of the Mandate, it would've had the same exchange rate as that unit of currency. > Since there is no such country today (otherwise, what are you supposedly > fighting for?), what caused its demise and when did it occur? Deir Yassin. 9th April 1948. Premeditated ethnic cleansing. Jews who became like the people they detested - and in many cases, couldn't stand themselves. > And here is the least sarcastic question of all: If the people you > mistakenly call "Palestinians" are anything but generic Arabs collected > from all over -- or thrown out of -- the Arab world, if they really have a > genuine ethnic identity that gives them right for self-determination, then > why did they never try to become independent until Arabs suffered their > devastating defeat in the Six Day War? Okay, let's see you answer this question, Dafna Yee. Ad hominem, but that's your stock-in-trade, isn't it. You can hardly complain ... If Jews are really a separate nation and not just a religion tied to an ethnic identity, and have been such for the last twenty centuries, why did they never try for anything other than local autonomy - the same as the Gypsies always demanded for their travelling bands - in every land they migrated to? If Jewish ethnic identity gives them the right of self-determination, why did they wait twenty centuries to exercise it? > The truth should be obvious to everyone who wants to know it. The > collective Arab countries have never abandoned their dream of destroying > Israel; they still cherish it today. Having tried time and again to achieve > their evil goal through military means and failing miserably -- losing more > land every time -- they decided to fight Israel by proxy. I see. So, that land having been empty for about twenty centuries - in spite of the general demographic rule that land remains vacant only while there is no population to use it; ask your local friendly population specialist, whether they're termed Demographers or Zoologists isn't relevant - and therefore the Crusaders having killed a non-existent Jewish and Muslim population in Jerusalem in sheer frustration at having beseiged an empty city - in spite of the general rule that an empty city quickly reverts to soil; ask your local friendly archaeologist - etc, etc, etc. Does anyone else get the feeling that trying to talk sense with Dafna Yee is banging one's head against a brick wall? For recreational purposes? > For that purpose, > they created a terrorist organization, cynically and deliberately called it > "the Palestinian people" and installed it in Gaza, Judea, and Samaria. How > else can you explain the refusal by Jordan and Egypt to unconditionally > accept back the "West Bank" and Gaza, respectively? This identification of Palestinian with "terrorist" sickens me - it reminds me of the Third Reich's identification of Jews with "communist subversives". I only found out last decade that I had distant relatives in Krakow - now they're obviously not there any longer. And in relation to Ariel Sharon's decision to prevent food and medical supplies reaching Gaza, it leaves me feeling sick. > The fact is, Arabs populating Gaza, Judea, and Samaria have much less claim > to nationhood on that land than that Native tribe that successfully emerged > in Connecticut with the purpose of starting a tax-exempt casino: at least > that tribe had a constructive goal that motivated them. You know a lot about Palestinian motives. Since you never talk with any, how do you know? Come on, give us your sources. And interesting you also dislike Native Americans. Well, well, well. Wouldn't you know it! Norman G. Finkelstein in "Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict" goes into quite some detail about how Adolf Hitler used the American extermination of the Native Americans, as part and parcel of his justification: "Hitler's biographers report that the Nazi leader's Lebensraum policy was inspired by the conquest of North America. According to John Toland, Hitler 'often praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination - by starvation and uneven combat - of the red savages who could not be tamed by captivity'. Joachim Fest observes that Hitler's 'continental war of conquest' was modeled 'with explicit reference to the United States'." Settlement, Not Conquest, pg 92, 1st ed. > The so-called > "Palestinians" have only one motivation: the destruction of Israel, and, > frankly, that is not sufficient to consider them a "nation" -- or anything > else except what they really are: a terrorist organization with an > excellent propaganda machine. In fact, there is only one way to achieve > peace in the Middle East. All the Arab countries must acknowledge and > accept their defeat in their war against Israel and, as the losing side, > should pay Israel reparations for the more than 50 years of devastation > they have visited on it. The most appropriate form of such reparations > would be the removal of the PLO -- their terrorist front group -- from the > land of Israel and accepting Israel's sovereignty over Gaza, Judea, and > Samaria. Then the "Palestinians" could decide either to live in ISRAEL > under Israeli laws Wow. Did I hear that? Palestinians finally allowed to live unmolested in the land of their forefathers. There's just one point you forgot - won't the Mossad get you for this, Dafna, since you've obviously accepted something under the table from those [censored...] untermenschen the "Palestinians", to say they have the right to live in Israel? And with their population still growing ... ;) > or go to some other country and live under their laws. > (Oh, I forgot. No Arab country will give the "Palestinians" citizenship! > Did you ever wonder why?) And all the Israeli victims of "suicide > bombings" should receive adequate compensation from the Arab countries who > have financed the "Palestinians" for the past 40 years of their existence. > That will mark the end of the "Palestinian people". You still have not > proved that there was a beginning prior to 1964. > Dafna Yee, director > JWD - Jewish Watch Dog > http://jwd-jewishwatchdog.home.comcast.net As always, the Bluewhale Watchdog has difficulties deciding whether to bark or blow! Such are the joys of being a chimaera ;) Shalom l'kol uvrakha -- Wesley Parish * * * Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. RIP James Blish * * * Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." --- / o o \ PNEWS Topic Specific Portals (Vortals) ===OO=====OO================================================= http://pnews.org/vortal/ New World disOrder and Myth Busters http://g0lem.net/vortal/ Insane Planet and Wacko World http://g0lem.net/portal/ Bad-Ass Truth and TheGolemsPortal http://pnews.org/portal/ Naked Truth and PNEWS Portal ============================================================= \_/ \_/
