|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
According to the Scriptures, we all come from Noah, by way of his sons Shem, Ham and Japeth. That makes us all brothers and sisters, several dozen times removed. So, how about putting aside the sibling rivalry before you kill each other, and maybe the rest of us into the bargain? -----Original Message----- From: Defending the Truth discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of donnella whitacre Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 7:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] FOLLOW UP: SECURITY FENCE |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| you are totally nuts. that is all i can say. one of mohammad's first fun things was beheading 600 jews and selling their families in to slavery in medina.they were judged to have outed him because they wouldn't accept him as a prophet. no were in the jewish line is there any indication that jews are muslim or there was some great mass conversion. and by the way , history is full of how islam converts, by the sword. the mountains coming out of india are named the Hindu Kush for the amount of hindus who died being led to slavery over them by their kindly muslim conqurers. . the arabs come from the asian pennisula and were brought there by tireganis the first in about 125 b.c.e after he carried off the greeks of syria whom he thought were really educated and liked them so he took them home with him. greeks were in syria for over 600 years at that time. the children of ishmael were the elomites and the moabites. any of them left? if this is so, how can you call them pigs if they are actually muslims in disguise? Mohammad Basirul Haq Sinha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Look,Donnela. You ignored the history that the great portion people who were what you call "Jewish" in those days are now Muslims and of course Arab. The idea of "Arabism" is fathered by non-Muslims mainly and nursed by European colonialists.It was non-existent even before 200 years ago. Arabism was created with a view to "justify Zionism". It is clear. "G. Waleed Kavalec" wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Salaam/shalom Donnella Surah 5 ayah 20-21: "O my people! Remember the bounty of Allah upon you when He bestowed prophets upon you, and made you kings and gave you that which had not been given to anyone before you amongst the nations. O my people! Enter the Holy Land which Allah has written for you, and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers." Note that there is no promise of the Jews having exclusive dominion. And, most important, the promise is very clearly delimited to those who do not leave. "... and do not turn tail, otherwise you will be losers." So the Jews who stayed in Palestine are the only ones "promised". That covers the theological question. On to the "sharing" question. It is clear that the UN went astray in it efforts in 1948 and tried to create a non-sharing solution; creating division instead. The very idea of artificially creating a "Jewish Homeland" is inherently racist and should have been seen as such then; European holocaust guilt blinded the world to this. In my humble opinion the key Holy Sites of concern need to be put under some sort of international body, and the rest of the area needs to be reunified in a manner modeled after South Africa. Jews and Muslims can co-exist; children of Isaac and children of Ishmael are still children of Abraham. > i just think in the name of fairness since more than > one people lived there, that more than one people > should get to have a state there. i am not sure that > is unreasonable. Any "state" that exists for ethnic reasons, instead of geographical ones, is a caricature; doomed to failure because of mis-focus. -----Original Message----- From: Defending the Truth discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of donnella whitacre Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] FOLLOW UP: SECURITY FENCE |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| i already asksed the koran also gives the jews that land also. how come i got no answer over that? palazzi who is the head of the italian clerics and many other lslamic clerics say this is so. no matter, why can there not be sharing. i asked this question over and over and get no answer. i don't really care about the religious part of it, i just ask because i know he won't answer , i just think in the name of fairness since more than one people lived there, that more than one people should get to have a state there. i am not sure that is unreasonable. Mohammad Basirul Haq Sinha wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Good question.... Answer should come from Zionist side............ "Michael D. Fein" wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| I keep hearing over and over again from both sides how God has promised them this land. I have one question. When did God become a real estate broker? 'nuf said! Michael -----Original Message----- From: Defending the Truth discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of donnella whitacre Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 8:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] FOLLOW UP: SECURITY FENCE |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| sorry guy we have been there since 1700 b.c.e. you have been there at the most 700 years. the jews have never left that area, so how did it become all yours? syria was greek for over 600 years, the phillistines were greek. there were three peoples in palestine, jews, christians, and arabs, you are not the only ones from there. this book i am reading was written in 1972 and they refer to palestinians(jews) and arab palestinians. so even then they knew it. we jews have been there way long. but sharing is nice, you got a great part of the partition ,not enough? thsi all or nothing thing is a bummer for all concerned, especially those of both people that want to get along, those suffering in poverty because the money is being looted and spent on munions instead of education, medical and such. read the the PLO charter, destruction nothing less. great peace partner Mohammad Basirul Haq Sinha wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Dear Donella, Hamas is "human" while Zionists are "arrogant". Hamas is fighting to regain control over their land of birth the occupied Palestine while Zionists have intruded from Europe/America to grab their land. Hamas is on theil own soil while Zionists have gone to grab others territorry. M.B.H.S. donnella whitacre wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| most of those killed are armed combatants not women and children. and if they are not fighting terrorists what do you think are in those tunnels,and why are they there. what do you think hamas is that takes credit for every dead jew< a social club? you don't have to be in the military to be a target, all you have to do is pick up a gun and shot at soldiers or other jews. of course you don't know the answers, none of it is simple except the part were we blame israel and say nothing about the actrocites of the other side that are the reason for going into these camps to begin with. the IDF doesn't just decide to go there and cause trouble. "Michael D. Fein" wrote: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Hank, Once again you voice my sentiments exactly. Due to time limitations, I do not participate in this ongoing discussion as often as I would care to, but I DO read most of the postings. The fact is that there are no simple answers. But one fact is undeniable; violence continues to breed more of the same. Israel is abusing its power continuously with the constant claim that they are fighting terrorists. But for the most part, I see them fighting and killing civilians and innocent women and children. Now, please people who are reading this posting, understand that I really DO support the existence of the State of Israel. However, I also happen to believe the Palestinians are entitled to a home land and both sides at this point are working counter to those goals. Israel is overall, the far stronger power, and they must use their power in a morally responsible manner. Before you blow up a home or neighbourhood because you THINK it might be an area where suspected terrorists are located, do some intelligence work and make sure you got it right. Going after actual terrorists is certainly understandable and correct. But all too often, entire neighbourhoods and people are destroyed on suspicions with no proof ever offered before or after. The Palestinian authority must also take aggressive action against terrorism and suicide bombers, but refusing to talk to each other ain't gonna accomplish mutual cooperation. Both sides can find reasons to continue fighting and come up with rationales as to why they are right. But the bottom line is the Palestinian leaders are being ineffective and the Israeli government is acting like bullies. New leadership is needed on both sides of the equation. Michael -----Original Message----- From: Defending the Truth discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of WEBMASTER Sent: Monday, July 12, 2004 1:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] FOLLOW UP: SECURITY FENCE |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| On Mon, 12 Jul 2004, G. Waleed Kavalec wrote: > > > IDF and military not the same as wanton terrorists who sneak in > > houses and kill children and women > > > No, your military bastards blow the whole house up. I agree with you. There is no excuse for this. It is a horrible policy and everyone should object to it. Those of you who are as incensed as I am over needless killing, should continue to speak against these practices. Anyone who considers valid criticism is disingenuous. The progressive position is clear. By criticizing murder does not imply someone is antisemitic or anti-Islam if suicide bombers are also criticized, but it not unreasonable to see the connection - that the one motivates the other and the cycle goes on unabated. It must stop. By they way, what name should we use for you? Do you have a nickname or something besides calling you G? 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