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"It is really apples and oranges to set up these kinds of comparisons Anthony and often the method of anti-Semites and not what I would expect from you." I think this is a very interesting rhetorical device ....we call it attacking the man, rather than the argument. What I tried to do, was to show you, that the Books of Moses (I know of only Five...those in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible) have equally draconian strictures, as the Koran...or possibly worse (The punishment is death in these cases). Obviously, they would have no place in modern society...legal protections have ensured that we are safe from these... but for Fundamentalist Christians, every word in the Bible is true. So I am looking at the holy books of three religions and comparing them. In this case comparing apples with apples. But yes, you are right that the Reformation, and growth of the power of the middle and working classes, have led to an ameliorating of these books which are central to Western culture. I think this has been due to the relative wealth of western Europe, compared with other sections of the world...and this is partly due to the industrialisation that occurred in the West... not the goodness nor badness of the particular religions. So, Christianity and Western-European based Judaism were forced to change, by increasingly educated and politically empowered populations. Islam, Hinduism and religions in Africa have not had the advantage of industrialised and educated populations (due to colonialism holding back their societies) - and thus they have not been able to force changes, such as secular government and legal jurisdiction. (I think it won't be long though). Hank, instead of looking at some kind of inherent badness in any particular religion... learn from leftist analysis...the socio-political and economic aspects of the societies. With this kind of insight, it's a lot harder to find black and white...good and evil....and it may even be possible to find solutions other than just the need to brutally suppress a religion. (That solution will just keep the Middle East boiling for decades, and create martyrs and more murder). Just imagine if the oil wealth was shared out...if the US compliant and approved governments in Saudi and Egypt were forced to dish out more of the oil wealth. (by losing their protection by the US)...big middle class, larger, better educated working class..... political challenges to religious orthodoxy...just like the history of Europe in the last few hundred years. And I didn't even have to resort to words like "anti-Semitism".....such a lazy argument. Tony Currie ----- Original Message ----- From: "WEBMASTER" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, 11 August 2004 12:29 AM Subject: Re: [RHETORIC] Teachings of Islam > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > ANNOUNCEMENTS and ARTICLES: http://pnews.org/art/art.shtml > |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| > > Anthony: Ancesters yes, but with the Reformation and actually before with > Spinoza, all that changed considerably. It was not that way in the period > of the Roman conquest. You are talking really ancient history, which is > heavily laden with Pagan influence and these are Pagan rites and > traditons. How many times must I state here that even the orthodox do not > observe these as commandments. I suggest you reference the Halacha and not > the SIX books of Moses as your source for customary practices of the > fundamentalists. Secondly, as I have stated before, over 80% of all Jews > are NOT orthodox and many of them are atheists, more than in any other > religion. The religion of Judaism even encourages challenges old ideas and > free thinking - more than any other creedo I know. It is really apples > and oranges to set up these kinds of comparisons Anthony and often the > method of antisemites and not what I would expect from you. > > Hank > > > > On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Anthony Currie wrote: > > > I guess you have read the third book of Moses - Leviticus. Just a little > > sample: > > [pagan and old Jewish customs deleted/as very ancient history] > > > > > > Most religions have very heavy little passages... which the fundamentalists > > eagerly search out.... and use to brow-beat their flocks. > > > Except these are current Muslim practices and not ancient history. > > > Hank > > --- > / o o \ > ===OO=====OO================================================= > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (NewsWiki) - http://pnews.org/ (Home) > http://pnews.org/vortal/ (Portal) Myth Busters/Mid-East > http://g0lem.net/vortal/ (Portal) Insane Planet/Progressive > http://g0lem.net/portal/ (Portal) Bad-Ass Truth/Economics > http://pnews.org/portal/ (Portal) Naked Truth/Propaganda > http://pnews.org/signup.shtml - (pnews-l) info // sub/unsub > -(oldest progressive internet list - since 1982)- > ============================================================= > \_/ \_/ > --- / o o \ ===OO=====OO================================================= http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (NewsWiki) - http://pnews.org/ (Home) http://pnews.org/vortal/ (Portal) Myth Busters/Mid-East http://g0lem.net/vortal/ (Portal) Insane Planet/Progressive http://g0lem.net/portal/ (Portal) Bad-Ass Truth/Economics http://pnews.org/portal/ (Portal) Naked Truth/Propaganda http://pnews.org/signup.shtml - (pnews-l) info // sub/unsub http://g0lem/blogspot.com/ (Blog - progressive article index) ============================================================= \_/ \_/
