I had sought to reserve the "+" for a join, so that you tag your article tags:radio astronomy so that it would be found in a list queried on radio, or astronomy or both radio and astronomy, obviously the last list would be shorter and a query on radioastronomy would fail.
Jeffrey Blattman wrote:
maybe it's because i don't really "get" tagging, but what confuses me is that some tags cannot be represented w/ a single word. for example, i might want to tag something with "radio astronomy". tagging it with "radio" or "astronomy" doesn't capture the intent at all. i would naturally want/try to quote the phrase.p.s., you can use the "+" char to encode a space in a url ... a little nicer than %2 or whatever.Allen Gilliland wrote:My opinion is that the way it works now is still the best, where tags have to be a single word and if you want to do phrases then use underscores or dashes.I think the main reason against allowing for tag phrases is complexity. You are increasing the complexity both on the user input side as well as on the retrieval side and for what I consider a marginal benefit. On the UI side of things I think it's confusing to many users to allow for quoted phrases. Then on the retrieval side you are also confusing things because how do you get at the url for "modern art"? /tags/modern%2Bart ... that's not something users can type in by hand which is part of what's nice about forcing single word tags.As for Elias' suggestion of allowing phrases and converting the spaces to underscores, I think that's a little dicey. For one, it still leaves the user confusion aspect around using quoted phrases, which I believe most users don't really want. On the technical side I think you may be playing with fire though because why should the tag "modern art" become modern_art instead of modern-art. And regardless of which you convert to, is that the value stored in the db? That would mean that when the user comes back to that entry the tags list will show modern_art instead of their original tag phrase which can be confusing for users as well.My belief is that the reason why tagging has been successful at places like del.icio.us and flickr is because the rules are short and simple. Tags are separated by spaces, period. It's a slight blow in functionality but keeps the usability as simple and easy as possible.-- Allen Anil Gangolli wrote:Oh. I must have missed the discussion about not supporting spaces in tags because I would at least have made an attempt to convince people to support spaces in tags.It comes up for tags like "modern art" that are not really meaningful to separate.Regarding Elias's proposal, I initially felt against it, because I'd rather use real spaces in the tags. That's still the case, but less so, because I did a quick Technorati sampling, and there already seems to be a sizable rift between the true space users and the underscore users.So for example Technorati lists 494 posts using "modern_art" compared to 981 using "modern art" and differences in the thousands for "george bush" compared to "george_bush", with the latter tag far in the lead.--a. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elias Torres" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Apache Roller 3.1RC1 (incubating) ready for testingAllen Gilliland wrote:Anil Gangolli wrote:I installed 3.1RC1 on my dev box. Seemed to be clean using a fresh dbinstallation and 3.0 required-jars package.I was trying the tag-related functionality out and I see a few issues:(1) The tag entry field on the entry edit page uses space separationand doesn't seem to accomodate tags that include spaces. I tried quoting with double-quotes; that didn't seem to work.Yes, that is the expected behavior. We talked about this when we wereevaluating the tags proposal and decided that most sites seem to beusing the solution that we have, where tags cannot be multi word phrases.I now have a requirement at IBM to support spaces with the followingcaveat. If you enter "elias is cool" it will be stored as elias_is_cool.In other words, we support it as an input (double quotes) but we don't store it that way. Are you guys cool with it? -Elias(2) The user guide link in the JSP footer seems to point off to an old2.x guide. I was looking for and couldn't find the documentation in the 3.1 guides on the various forms of URLs, specifically I was looking to test the tag-based URLs. I know I've seen it somewhere, but I can't remember where.Hmm. For the user guide I think it would be nice if these kinds oflinks pointed to urls within the app, like /roller-ui/docs/*, for userdocumentation about the current app version. I may also take this opportunity to throw out an idea I had a little while ago for documentation that was related to this. It seems to methat since blogging is supposed to website publishing made easy then oneof the key components of a really mature blog system would be good documentation throughout the application. I haven't been a bigdocumentation contributor in the past, but I think that's more because I felt the app needed more work and less docs at the time. Now that theapp is getting more and more mature it may be time to consider a nice solution for providing rich documentation.So what I had been thinking about was a way where we could write all of our documentation in small and easily reusable components, possibly inxml, which we could easily use to either 1) provide a full help guidedocument (aka user guide) or 2) take bits and pieces of the docs and beable to insert them directly into the appropriate pages.So for example, if a user is on the 'Templates' page and is working on customizing their blog then we could have some documentation hooks whichprovide contextual help info like ... 1. what is this page for? 2. what can i do on this page? 3. how do i use this page? 4. what do each of the fields on this page mean? 5. how does this affect my blog?So for the 'Templates' page the top of the page may provide quick links which give a couple paragraphs of text explaining what the page is forand what you do on the page. Then you have the large text area where you can modify your templates which could have a little tool tip icon next to it which would tell the user what that field is for. Thenpossibly at the bottom of the page we include a quick reference sheet of the models and macros to help users while they are authoring templates.One of the things that I think Roller has been hurting on is usability and in my mind of the most important elements of usability when it comes to web tools is contextual documentation. I think doing something like this could really help make Roller a more user friendly blogging system.(3) Tags don't seem to be displayed anywhere in the "basic" theme at all. Shouldn't we update this to show tags on entries, including an actual rel tag ?I think there may not have been any real consensus about whether or not to promote tags in the themes since in many cases users may not be usingtags.(4) I couldn't get anything to show up in the "Hot Tags" area of the front page. Haven't investigated what is happening yet; this may be my own problem.Dunno about that one. -- Allen--a. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:57 PM Subject: Apache Roller 3.1RC1 (incubating) ready for testingThank you and yes, I meant 3.1.With releasing 3.1, re-releasing 2.3.1 and working on 3.2 I've got acouple too many versions floating around in my head. - Dave On 11/20/06, Jeffrey Blattman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:did you mean 3.1 RC1, or are we skipping 3.1? Dave wrote:> I've merged all applicable bug fixes from trunk to the roller_3.1 > branch and prepared a first release candidate for the 3.1 release.You > can find the release files and latest 3.1 docs here: > > http://people.apache.org/~snoopdave/apache-roller-3.1/ > > Here's the What's New in Roller 3.1 page:> http://rollerweblogger.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Roller_3.1_WhatsNew> > Release candidates are for testing purposes only. >> Please help out. The sooner you download, test and report bugs the > sooner we'll be able to fix them and get the release out. So please> help out the project and take RC1 for a spin. > > - Dave
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