Hi Arne and Rose Forum,
I'm in charge of the problems Henk describes.
I think you don't have to be afraid.
And please don't pay attention to the statement about rework. Henk is an
independend consultant and neither has the knowledge nor the authority to
give such statements about Rationals future (as myself and I'm a Rational
employee).
Let me explain exactly what Rose does, if you delete or rename any Class
that is associated to a not loaded or write protected class:
Assume you have 2 classes A and B in different packages, that are connected
with an assoziation.
Then assume class B is in a not loaded package or a write protected package,
as the assoziation itself(checked in with CM).
If you rename class A in Clas ARenamed, Rose cannot update the package of
the assoziation immediately. It updates with a reload of the assoziation
package or with checkout or with reload of the entire model.
What happens at reload:
- In most cases Rose connects the assoziation with the renamed class
ARenamed because of the UID.
- There is one exception: If you have created a new class A, Rose connects
the assoziation with the name Class A, before it connects the assoziation
with the uid of the renamed class ARenamed. This could be intended by the
user, that created a new class with the same name.
I see only 2 minor problems, that our development should solve:
- The described behaviour doesn't happen, if all packages are loaded (there
the assoziation will always connect to class ARenamed). We need the same
behaviour in both cases.
- RoseItem Views in unloaded or writeprotected diagrams of renamed or
deleted RoseElements will remain with the famous (M). But it is easy to call
a Script that deletes all these things. Also to say we should do something
in the future.
So if you are aware of these problems, you can work with Rose in big teams.
As the majority of Rose customer all over the world succesfully do for up to
8 years.
It is natural, that you only hear about the few dissatisfied projects. If
your project is working properly, you don't take the time to write E-Mails.
If you want to know more about sucessfully setting up teamwork with Rose, I
would suggest to call your local Rational team. They should be the first
address and as you see in my E-Mail, we will also tell you the limitations.
regards,
Andreas Essigkrug
********************************************************
Andreas Essigkrug Systems Engineer
Rational GmbH Phone: +49-89-62838-233
the e-development company
Fax: +49-89-62838-269
Keltenring 17 Mobile: +49-170-4532-233
D-82041 Oberhaching mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Germany URL: http://www.rational-software.de
********************************************************
-----Original Message-----
From: Arne G. Styve [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:09 AM
To: Henk Rippen
Cc: Paul Crone; Amund Glomsas; rose_forum@Rational. Com
Subject: RE: (ROSE) M in a circle??
Hi Henken,
Thanks for your reply. I'm not surprised, but you did get me very worried!!
>From the first moment I started using Rose (1 1/2 years ago), I was very
surprised to see the way the model is stored. How can you possible be able
to ensure a robust environment for your model when using a standard flat
textfile to store the model in !!!!
I tend to call these "features" in Rose the "Microsoft syndrome": Nice and
fancy and very userfriendly on the outside.....pretty shaky on the inside.
Do you know anything about the "new policy" in the remake of Rose 2001 ?
So, what do you recomend regarding Rose and multiuser environment? Most of
the time the Visual Source Safe-addin seems to work fine, but if we risk
loosing data, I don't know wether it is worth it. What is the alternative ?
Regards
Arne Styve
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henk Rippen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: 15. november 2000 09:55
> To: Arne G. Styve
> Subject: AW: (ROSE) M in a circle??
>
>
>
> Hi !
>
>
> This a a very painfull problem for Rational.
> In some situations the usage of controlled units may
> cause the loss of modeling data....
>
>
> All modeling items ( Classes, Associations etc ) are RoseItems
> The visualization of items in diagrams is done with RoseItemViews.
> ( see the REI / Rose Meta Model )
>
> The (M) appears on RoseItemViews in situations where the
>
> - the RoseItem for the RoseItemView points to is not loaded ( that is not
> critical )
> - the RoseItem was renamed ( is very bad ! )
> - the RoseItem was deleted ( can get critical )
>
> Some of the topics are known at Rational ( caseIDs, Technotes, defects )
>
> I have some very ugly "discussions" with Rational on this.
> In some situations with multiplecontrolled units, you may
> even see that rose is not able to relate information
> from different controlled units.
>
> Rational will do a complete redesign of Rose in 2001, so
> probably you will have a fix for this Q3 2001 ????
>
> In the next weeks, Rational promised to create an add-in which
> works around some of the risks of loosing data.
>
> Please BE VERY CAREFULL USING ROSE IN MULTIUSER environments with
> Config Management !!!!
>
> If you need more information how to avoid loss of modeling data
> in such environments, don't hesitate to send me a mail !
>
>
> Henk Rippen
>
>
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.rippen.de
>
>
> -----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]Im Auftrag von Arne G. Styve
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 15. November 2000 09:21
> An: rose_forum@Rational. Com
> Betreff: RE: (ROSE) M in a circle??
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> You're quite right in yor answer Todd.
>
> However, I've got a small challange for you and the rest of the Rose forum
> (maby it turns out not to be a chalange at all...)
>
> I too get the (M)'s in one of my diagrams. We have a large model which is
> configuration managed using Visual Source Safe from Microsoft.
> The class in
> question is stored in one controlled unit, while the diagram is stored in
> another. When the modell is loaded, including loading all
> subunits, on this
> one diagram, the class comes up with the famous (M), including
> the relations
> to other classes.
> I've tried reloading both packages/units (the one holding the
> class and the
> one holding the diagram) without getting rid of the (M).
> The only way to get rid of the (M)'s is to check out the unit
> containing the
> diagram. If I then check the unit in again, the (M)'s are gone.
> However the
> next time I load the model, the (M)'s appeare as usual.... This
> doesn't make
> sence at all. Especially since it's only this one class in this
> one diagram
> that behaves like this...
>
> Any ideas what might be wrong ?
>
> Regards
>
> Arne Styve
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Todd Dunnavant
> > Sent: 14. november 2000 15:35
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: (ROSE) M in a circle??
> >
> >
> >
> > The M in the circle means that one or more items involved in
> the relation
> > is not in memory. You can get rid of the M by loading the
> controlled unit
> > that contains the subject model element.
> >
> > Todd Dunnavant
> > Technical Lead
> > Texas/Oklahoma Geographic District
> > Rational Software Corporation
> > voice: 281-499-8789
> > fax: 281-499-6293
> > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jeff James
> > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 2:52 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: (ROSE) M in a circle??
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm sure this has been asked a miliion times but I didn't see it
> > anywhere.....
> > What does the M in a circle mean on a relationship?
> > Where in the Rat Rose documentation can I read about it?
> > How do you get rid of it?
> > Cheers,
> > Jeff
> >
> > --
> > <X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X>
> > Jeffrey James, Sr Design Engineer
> > Tait Electronics Ltd.
> > Christchurch, New Zealand
> > <X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X><<>><X>
> >
> >
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