> ----------
> From: R. Maksimchuk[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: sabato 9 dicembre 2000 21.34.00
> To: Naiburg, Eric J.; 'Walter Howard'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: (ROSE) Data modeler & Oracle 8
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
This thread has gotten a bit long, but let me try to clarify something.
a. Rose data modeler does NOT require you to duplicate your persistent
classes for the data model (i.e. you do not have need a data model and a
class data model)
b. Therefore, you do not have to write scripts to keep these models in sync
The whole purpose of using UML for data modeling is to get everyone working
from the SAME diagram. Your logical model (a.k.a. the class model) can be
used by BOTH applications and database folks to work together on the same
design. It can contain application and data classes. You do not need to
put your logical DB classes into another package. Once the logical model is
elaborated to your satisfaction, you use the Transform to Data Model to
create the data model. This does not duplicate classes, this creates tables
that are linked (traceable) back to the logical model. The application
folks will take that same logical class model, that the DB'er just used to
transform to a data model, and use the same model to continue to develop the
application design.
So the logical model (for both the application and database) can remain in
one package and the data model (derived from that common class model) will
be kept in another. This allows the DB folks to do the necessarily
demoralization to the DB design while their application counterparts work on
elaborating the application design. But it all flows from the common
logical model.
I hope this helps. If I missed the point....sorry.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert A. Maksimchuk
Data Modeling Evangelist
Rational Software, The e-development Company
Phone: (610)-940-2124
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Naiburg, Eric J.
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 2:53 PM
To: 'Walter Howard'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Data modeler & Oracle 8
You can have attributes that are not persistent in a persistent class by
marking them as derived. ERwin and Data Architect do not give you any
ability to gather and model requirements, tie them to database elements or
open up the ability to communicate between the database, business analysis
and development teams. Using the UML, you can model a lot more than just
tables, columns and relationships. You have the ability to actually model
and understand constraints, triggers, stored procedures, etc. as well as the
entire database design and not just the tables, columns and relationships.
What hardware is used, what applications talk to what databases, etc.
Eric Naiburg
Rational Software Corp.
425-497-6124
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: Walter Howard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 10:45 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Data modeler & Oracle 8
Wow. This approach kind of defeats the purpose of having the little
checkbox that indicates that the class is persistent. Although it does get
around the pitfall of having persistent and non-persistent attributes in the
same class. If I have to write scripts to keep my data model diagram in
sync with my data model class diagram and I have to write scripts to keep my
data model class diagram in sync with the application class model diagram,
how is this an improvement over just doing you application modeling in Rose
and doing the data modeling in Data Architect or ERwin?
Walter.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Gornik, Davor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2000 11:55 AM
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Gornik, Davor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: (ROSE) Data modeler & Oracle 8
Oliver,
i tried to clarify my thoughts...
> Hello Davor,
>
> i fear, that is misunderstood something. You wrote:
>
> > the logical database model is a model of the database design without any
> > considerations of the physical implementation. This means the logical
> > model must NOT be denormalized because of performance or any other
> > implementation issue.
>
> Ok i totally agree. But pls. explain, which model you exaclty mean with
that?
> When i read the following text, i think that you have not meant the
"object
> model". Did you?
My thoughts are realy about the part of the object model. I clasify
the
object model into the application related object model and the database
related object model (persistence object model), which are related, but not
the same.
You would create two packages with different objects for this.
>
> > The logical model (object model) is not just another view to the
> > database as many of other tools try to describe it because of the lack
> > of tool capabilities it is an independent view, which has to develop
into
> > the physical model and manage the traceability to it and vice versa.
> [...]
> > Actually to be absolutely clear the object model must not be the
> > model the application developer uses for the application design.
>
> Do you mean, that i have to _duplicate_ all persistent classes from all
class
> diagrams into an own data model and than i have to do design activities?
Yes, this is the approach I would suggest.
>
> If yes: How do i keep the traceability between the class diagrams and my
data
> model. We are developing software using the Unified Process. Developers
add,
> modify and delete attributes to their classes. How do i keep up to date
with my
> data model when not using "their" classes?
My suggestion is to use dependecies and write some scripts to do it.
>
> Thank you for your efforts with my questions.
>
> Regards
> Oliver
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