Dan,
The answer is yes. Rose can generate all of the OO constructs and has added
a relational database profile for the UML to model and generate relational
database schemas.
Eric Naiburg
Rational Software Corp.
Mngr. Product Mngt.
e-Business Solutions
425-497-6124
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Tasker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:15 PM
To: 'Walter Howard'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: RE: (ROSE) ROSE: Generating a DDL script
Greetings all,
I joined this forum about an hour ago, hoping to find the answer to the
following UML-ish, not necessarily Rose-specific question(which this stream
seems to be close to addressing):
My reading of the current UML 'static' modeling techniques looks very
object-oriented in that there is no provision for specifying keys, primary
or otherwise. I imagine that this is because OO assumes that every object
has identity, and therefore there is no need to specify anything about a
key. ER modeling propagates primary keys as foreign keys, based on
relationships. With UML, there does not seem to be such propagation.
Instead, there are access direction arrows added to relationships, modeling
the need to navigate from, say, a parent class to a child class. This
accomplishes exactly the same thing as PK / FK navigation in the relational
world.
My question is, "Are the current tools such as Rose capable of generating
relational schema from a UML model?" I can see it generating Classes, with
'bags' or 'lists' of multi-valued pointers from a parent class to a child
class based on such models, but I'm wondering if tools such as this are
useful for relational implementations.
What I'm reading in this thread is that there are two separate modeling
'tools' in Rose, one for what you are calling the 'requirements' model, and
the other supporting the 'application' model? I don't want to have to create
2 separate, unrelated models. And I don't want to create a 'requirements'
model, that is too 'logical'. I want to create a model that I can use to
generate DDL. What I'm hearing is that if I want DDL I use the Data Modeller
tool, and if I want an application (e.g. C++ code?) I use the Class
modelling tool. Yes?
Regards,
>Dan Tasker<
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Howard [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 7:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: (ROSE) ROSE: Generating a DDL script
>
> No argument from me. The companies that care about data and recognize
> that it is an asset all have data analysts on staff that are an integral
> part of the requirements gathering process. What I'm confused about is
> the previously suggested approach. It's not feasible for a logical data
> model and the application class model to share the same class model. The
> application class model has all sorts of artifacts that obfuscate the
> underlying data relationships. Additionally, different rules apply to
> building class models than to data models. How can someone share a design
> where the analysis techniques differ?
> Regards,
> Walter
>
>
> >>> "Maksimchuk, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/23/01 12:25PM >>>
>
> You are right Walter, a class model will not transform into a good data
> model automatically. It still does require the skills of the database
> designer to turn it into a logical data model into "functional database".
> No doubt about that. And yes it will and should look very different. I
> also agree that the physical stuff (precision, scale) should be specified
> in the physical model (sorry if I wasn't clear on that).
> However, having the database and application people work separately, with
> separate models is the way things have been done for a long time. Now
> with the availability of the UML for database design and application
> design there are many advantages of having both teams working from the
> same design. This is especially true if, as some of our customers are
> doing, the database people become involved early in the lifecycle, say at
> the Business Modeling level. After all, they know the existing database
> entities. Who better to "guard" those all important domain level
> concepts?
> Either approach can work, we are just striving to leverage improved
> communication between the app and DB teams.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Robert A. Maksimchuk
> Data Modeling Evangelist
> R a t i o n a l
> the e-development company
> Phone: (610)-940-2124
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Howard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 11:37 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: RE: (ROSE) ROSE: Generating a DDL script
>
>
> Interesting approach. I don't think it will work though. The problem is
> that a logical data model looks different that a class model of an
> application. In fact it can look significantly different. Just
> specifying attributes within a class model as persistent won't get you a
> good logical data model much less a functional database. I always looked
> at the data modeler building his own class model in conjunction with the
> application folks building their class model. This model is separate from
> the application class model. IMO, this is the only way to accurately
> capture the data requirements without the excess application baggage.
> Precision and scale should be specified at the physical model level. Only
> the domain should be specified at the logical level. The logical model is
> technology independent. If you include physical characteristics of a
> target DBMS in your logical model, you lose the portability of the design.
> Regards,
> Walter
>
> >>> "Maksimchuk, Robert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 03/23/01 07:59AM >>>
>
> 1. Precision and scale can be changed in the Table Specification. Select
> the column and double click to open the Column Spec. Go to the Type tab.
> 2. We recommend that the class diagram (logical model) be used as the
> common
> "blueprint" for both the application and database folks. App developers
> use
> this diagram as they always have to build the apps and database folks
> transform the persistent classes into a data model to do the database
> design. So when do you make the split? There is not a black and white
> answer. The earliest you should to this would be when all the attributes
> are fully elaborated in the class diagram. The latest would be when all
> the
> operations are fully elaborated. The challenge you run into is, the
> earlier
> you do the transform the more likely the database design will be impacted
> by
> changes. And of course the later you transform, you may be less impacted
> by
> changes to the logical model, but your project schedule may not be able to
> stand the strain. This is all heavily influenced by your schedule and
> your
> company's culture.
> 3. Depends on the details of your specific situation.
> 4. The help files contain the information you need.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Robert A. Maksimchuk
> Data Modeling Evangelist
> R a t i o n a l
> the e-development company
> Phone: (610)-940-2124
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:57 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: RE: (ROSE) ROSE: Generating a DDL script
>
>
>
> Todd and Davor,
>
> Thanks for the response.
> My question(s) now :
>
> 1. Where does one specify the attribute data type & prescision targeted
> to
> the Oracle database(e.g. Number(15,2), Varchar2(50) etc)- in the class
> diagram or the data model diagram?
>
> 2. Are there any guidelines describing how much information should be
> entered in the class diagram as opposed to the data model diagram?
>
> 3.Is it recommended to import Oracle8 scalar data types and use them in
> the
> class diagram itself?
>
> 4. I tried to define a global domain package containing oracle domains to
> use in the class diagram but could not find any documentation on how
> exactly
> to do them
>
> Thanks,
> Abby
> ==========================================
> "Gornik, Davor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Abby,
> >
> > We replaced the direct way with the design driven way of generating the
> > database with the data modelier add-in, which gives you all of the power
> to
> > optimize the physical design of the database and model constraints,
> > triggers, etc. If you need a good database design, data modeler is the
> tool
> > to go for.
> > This means you can not generate the table directly from a class, because
> > some physical information is missing.
> > However some scripts might exist for the class based ddl genreration.
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> > Davor Gornik
> > Marketing Engineer Rose Business Unit
> > Rational Software
> > Phone: +1-425-497-4091
> > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Rational User Conference 2001
> > July 22 - 26, 2001 * Denver, CO, USA
> > <http://www.rational.com/ruc>
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 5:53 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: (ROSE) ROSE: Generating a DDL script
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there a way to directly generate a ddl from a class diagram(all
> classes
> > tagged persistent)rather than going through the data modeler add-in and
> > first creating a schema.
> > I shall appreciate any feeback on this.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Abby
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at
> > <http://webmail.netscape.com/>
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