Hi all, I am not a native English speaker, and my understanding of what makes the language inclusive or non-inclusive is quite limited. But I have a couple of naive questions about the current draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-addogra-rtgwg-vrrp-rfc5798bis-03): 1. The draft uses the word "owner" quite frequently . Are the authors (and the community) sure this word is not "burdened"? 2. Is the text "Note that if the IPvX address owner is available, then it will always become the Active" proper English, i.e. is "Active" a noun so that it can be prepended with "the"?
Regards, Sasha Office: +972-39266302 Cell: +972-549266302 Email: [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: rtgwg <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2022 11:40 AM To: Stewart Bryant <[email protected]>; Tal Mizrahi <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: Inclusive language In this case, as Acee pointed out in his presentation, there seemed to be a technically accurate alternative term that is not burdened. So unless one has good reason to believe "active' is burdened, discussing further alternative terms seems coutner-productive. Yours, Joel On 3/22/2022 4:02 AM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 22 Mar 2022, at 06:23, Tal Mizrahi <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> The following sentence caught my attention in the RTGWG discussion >> about inclusive language in RFC5798 bis >> (https://clicktime.symantec.com/3L8AZoX2tj7p3qPnJsD6UeC7GS?u=https%3A >> %2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fmeeting%2F113%2Fmaterials%2Fslides-113-r >> tgwg-3-vrrp-5798bis-01%29%3A >> >> "Please don’t make alternate suggestions without detailed knowledge >> of both the VRRP protocol and the English Language." >> >> Ironically, this sentence is not inclusive (I am sure this was not >> intentional). >> FWIW, I believe all opinions should be heard, regardless of whether >> people are fluent English speakers or not. >> My two cents. >> > > Whilst you are correct, I can see where they are coming from. > > The words were a bit harsh, but I am sure well intentioned. > > Alternative words bring their own context and it is necessary to understand > the precise explicit and implicit semantics of the suggested replacement > word. Eventually the technical community will pick an alternatives to words > such as master that we all understand with the same degree of precision as > the original terms, but until then we risk having a poorly understood set of > replacement terms with imprecise meaning, that risk the precision of the > protocol definitions. We also risk wasting hours in semantic debate between > people that have different understandings of the subtle consequences for the > protocol of their preferred replacement term. > > Perhaps in this case an alternative approach is to invent a new name say > retsam and provide it with an identical definition to master but with any > human concepts excluded or replaced by machine concepts. > > Stewart > > >> Regards, >> Tal. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> rtgwg mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://clicktime.symantec.com/39atM6C2YZQ7feeGcqa5tBV7GS?u=https%3A% >> 2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frtgwg > > _______________________________________________ > rtgwg mailing list > [email protected] > https://clicktime.symantec.com/39atM6C2YZQ7feeGcqa5tBV7GS?u=https%3A%2 > F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frtgwg _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list [email protected] https://clicktime.symantec.com/39atM6C2YZQ7feeGcqa5tBV7GS?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Frtgwg Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments. Notice: This e-mail together with any attachments may contain information of Ribbon Communications Inc. and its Affiliates that is confidential and/or proprietary for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, disclosure, reliance or distribution by others or forwarding without express permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender immediately and then delete all copies, including any attachments. _______________________________________________ rtgwg mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtgwg
