The first order to the Gould lines was split between the MoPac and the St. Louis, Iron Mountain & Southern -- then still a separate road. The StL,IM&S got more of them than the MP (12 vs. 9). I think the New Zealand order may have had more influence internationally in the acceptance of the name. Of course, since S Scalers are special, I suppose we could consider the StL,IM&S the primary originator of the type in North America and start calling them "Iron Mountain" types.
The Milwaukee's 4-6-2s were essentially overweight 4-6-0 which required a trailer to shift some of the excess weight from the drivers. The trailing wheel was rigid in the frame and not in a trailing truck. As you say, Raleigh, it was a narrow-firebox locomotive that did not encompass the essential design point of the Pacific type -- the wider firebox. One came from Schenectady in 1889, and three from Rhode Island in 1893. Lehigh Valley had what may have been the first 4-6-2, named "Duplex", built in their Wilkes-Barre shop in October 1886. This locomotive used an experimental twin-barreled wide firebox for burning anthracite. It was not successful and was soon rebuilt to a conventional 4-6-0. However, if this is indeed the very first 4-6-2, it is the fourth wheel arrangement introduced by the LV -- 2-8-0, 2-10-0 and 2-8-2 preceding it, but not in quantity. regards ... pqr ----- Original Message ----- From: raleigh To: [email protected] ; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Re: {S-Scale List} Re: New Pacific's and he notes - While there were examples of 'Pacific's' in existence before 1900, most were rebuilt Ten-Wheelers and Prairie types. Several were built new (by Brooks I believe) for the Milwaukee Road in 1896. They had narrow fireboxes and were really stretched Atlantics. Technically they could be called the first 'Pacifics' but didn't carry that appellation since the Whyte System was still a few years away. The application of the name 'Pacific' may be attributed to the dozen or so examples built by Baldwin in 1901 for New Zealand Railways. They needed locomotives with larger fireboxes to burn the low quality lignite coal mined there and since they were shipped over the Pacific Ocean, supposedly they were named for the Ocean. The design was successful enough to garner several orders for U. S. roads with the first going to MoPac and C&O in 1902 and since the MoPac got the first order, the name has been attributed to them. If they had been delivered to the Chessie first, we might be calling them 'Ohio' types! The name seems to have persisted even though roads with heavier power often named those locos differently, i. e. NYC's Hudsons, Mohawks and C&O's Kanawhas, Greenbriers, etc. Over 6,000 were built in the U. S. alone with that many plus built for foreign roads. It's interesting to note that while the Whyte System of locomotive classification (proposed in 1900 by F. M. Whyte a mechanical engineer) most railroad employees knew their motive power by class or road numbers. I remember my early railfan days (way back in the 50's) being admonished for using a 'front office' term for a B&M steam loco. I quickly learned that correct jargon for a 'Pacific' was a P2 (or P3 or 4 depending on the road numbers). But interestingly, the B&M Atlantics were always called 'Trailers', probably due to the fact that the first ones were little more than 4-4-0s with a trailing truck. So whether or not one accepts the New Zealand locos or those going to the MoPac as engendering the name, it lasted into the modern era and is still in use today. Raleigh in cool and comfortable Maine... BTW - one road did rename some of their Pacifics - anyone know which one and what they called them? At 10:23 PM 7/29/2008, Mary Armstrong wrote: >They named the Pacific after them as they had MO of them than any >other railroad. >John Armstrong [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/S-Scale/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
