To add to the discussion about package insurance and losses, I had experience
with UPS in the 1970s on a loss claim. In the days before the Internet, one way
to sell surplus model railroad equipment was through consignment sales intended
for enthusiast's' meets and shows. I shipped items by UPS from Arizona to a
consignment seller in Pennsylvania for a meet in the U.S. Northeast. My
shipment and those of other UPS shippers was lost in a Santa Fe train
derailment near Flagstaff, Ariz. It scattered UPS cargo along the right of way
in the northern desert high country. It took a while to find out why my
shipment never was delivered by UPS. They sent me a claim form which required
me to prove my losses. I used either original invoices or copies of ads from
model railroad magazines. Eventually a check was cut but if I recall, the
process took months to complete.
As you can guess, with that experience, I don't ship UPS unless there is no
other alternative. Once burned, twice shy.
By contrast, in recent months as an eBay seller, I have had almost no problems
with USPS. Every post office shipment I have made has been completed, even to
eBay buyers overseas. I require postal insurance on international shipments and
make it optional for U.S. buyers. But I clearly state in my listings that I
will not be responsible for loss or damage in transit if a U.S. buyer declines
postal insurance. In the once case where I had a problem, a parcel sent by USPS
to the San Diego area did not arrive. A postal supervisor at Tucson's Main Post
Office was most helpful and we finally traced the problem to grounded planes of
one or more carriers for aircraft mechanical safety inspections. USPS ships
Priority Mail by aircraft on a space available basis. My shipment probably was
sitting in limbo at an airport somewhere along the route. It was delivered a
week later, not in the 2-3 days that Priority Mail is promised.
I do suggest postal insurance. On some big ticket eBay items, notably brass
import locomotives, I have taken out insurance at my own expense even if the
buyer refused it -- simply as a matter of self protection.
My experience has been that USPS is a top notch operation in shipping Priority
or Express Mail.
Hope this helps in your decisions whether to spend an extra $1.70 or more on
postal insurance. In general, if an item is lost in our hobby, there may have
been only a limited number ever produced, so while insurance won't recover the
irreplaceable item, it will offset the out-of-pocket cash loss.
Edward B. Havens
Tucson, Ariz.
---- ed_loizeaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Have you ever had an insured loss with UPS? How is the amount of the
> > loss determined?
> > Bill Roberts
>
> Regarding the value of a lost/damaged package, I would assume you
> specify the value when buying the insurance. More insurance would
> (logically) cost more money -- I guess. But I do not know for sure if
> that is the way UPS works. The Post Office does it that way.
>
> Regarding a loss with UPS, I have never personally had a loss, but both
> Jesse Bennett and a non-S friend have both had losses with UPS. In
> both cases, they were stonewalled by UPS and payment was either refused
> or took seemingly forever. It was a long time ago, but I think Jesse
> enlisted the help of Larry Sokol to write a threatening letter to UPS
> which finally got them to pay up. The next time Jesse took a loco to
> the UPS place to ship it, they refused to take it. They said
> that "custom built articulateds" were no longer being accepted because
> of the high risk. So Jesse changed the item to "toy train" and they
> accepted it without question. I do remember Jesse felt greatly wronged
> by the way UPS treated him.
>
> The other UPS incident involved a fellow who built me a structure. He
> lives in Pennsylvania and shipped it out here to California. When it
> arrived, the box had obviously been crushed by something large and
> heavy. I called him to report the bad news. He said, "take photos"
> which I did and sent them to him. He contacted UPS in Pennsy-land and
> he then told me to hold the box and my local UPS driver would come for
> it. The UPS driver arrives a couple of days later and I show him the
> box. Everything was back to it's original state of toothpick-sized
> strips of wood. He says he needs to take it with him. I told him it
> was totally broken and of no use to anyone. Why not just leave it with
> me and maybe I could fix it up a bit. The reply was, "If UPS pays for
> the damage, then we own it and we will keep it." So I gave him the
> box. Then I called the fellow in Pennsy-land to ask if he'd be willing
> to build another one. He was most cheerful, but declined to do so
> again. "The first one is fun, but the following are not", he
> explained. After we talked a bit, I remarked how cheerful he seemed
> about the whole thing. Turns out he had shipped another structure to
> someone else just the month before and that structure was destroyed
> while in transit with UPS. It was nothing but struggle after struggle
> to finally to file the insurance claim and never get paid. Ultimately,
> UPS declared that it was not their fault because the box showed no
> obvious external damage. Therefore, UPS stated, it was a packaging
> problem and packaging is the responsibility of the shipper. Thus, he
> received no money from UPS. Man was he angry. So with my shipment, he
> insured it for $1,000 and because the box was crushed, he received the
> full $1,000. All this for an item worth maybe $50 or so. But he felt
> UPS deserved what it got for terrible way it treated him in the first
> instance.
>
> Right or wrong? Who's to blame? I dunno, but two folks at least are
> very unhappy with UPS's way of handling insurance claims. Personally,
> I prefer the USPost Office. Never had any damage. Never pay for
> insurance except for brass locos. Never a problem. Maybe I am just
> dumb, but I really like the Postal Service. Wish I could say the same
> about the Social Security Administration.
>
> But that story will be saved for another email at another time.
>
> Cheers...Ed L.
>
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