Sounds great, might want to rethink 2 ft aisles. That could haunt later. Jim Lyle In a message dated 8/30/2011 10:23:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
"ctxmf74" <ctxm@...> wrote: > I sketched up a preliminary concept plan for an S layout for > my new space and put it in the photo section in my "dave's stuff" > album, if anyone wants to see it look for the Bonneville and > Guadalajara photo. It is a modern shortline interchanging with > the SP(or UP depending on era) and ATSF( or BNSF)at Bonneville > which is on the north south SP mainline. The > ATSF comes from the west and ends at Bonneville. The shortline > B&G runs about 20 > miles east thru East Bonneville, Guadalajara, Old Mission and > ends at Terra Bella. The area is central valley of California. > agriculture and supporting industry is the driving force of the > area. Customers will include food processors, ag. supplies,lumber > yard, Old Mission winery, warehouses, and near the foothills at the > end of the line an oil field supply, and the Terra Bella > aggregates quarry and redimix cement plant. The B&G seems like a reasonable concept... > The plan shows a one foot square grid,the long walls of the L > are about 26.5 feet. Minimum radius will have to be about 46 inches > to make the turnback curve at the end of the room. Benchwork will > be 30 inches or less in width, Aisles 2 feet minimum, room entry > duck under about 53 inches above the floor, track about 56 inches. > The 30 inch wide entry between East Bonneville and Guadalajara will > be lift out for easy room access when not running, the wide double > doors will probably just be for a wider access below the layout. > They are 5 feet wide which is too much layout to lift out. They are > glass doors so they also let in some > natural light from skylights in the workshop area. Your using space efficiently. At 53", the duckunder and lifout are manageable. 56" height is nice for most, and 46" radius seems generous (good for modern stuff). I like continuous run and think all layouts should have it...if possible...Because most of the time the layout is run for ourselves or show. > I'd like some opinions on the feasibility of fitting all this > into the space in S scale. It seems you have done this. Do you have specific concerns? Here are a few thoughts I have on the plan: 1) Lance Mindhiem is making ISL's (Industrial Switching Layouts) popular. Check his books, MRP, various forums, etc...as a result (or simultaneously) small shelf layouts are poping up with Miami Spur or LA spur themes. While your design is more of a shortline than a spur, it has many of the same design consdierations, because yourlayout is a shelf layout... 2) In these new designs by Lance and others, the run around is often minimized or not used at all. The idea is that trailing point switching is just as interesting, often providing as much operation. I think prototype industrial short lines or spurs too of forego runarounds. In your plan I think you could eliminate one of your intermediate runarounds and keep the same or better operation. For instance, remove the runaround at Guadalajara and make it all trailing point switching. With the runaround removed, trains would not switch Guadalajara on the way to Terra Bella, instead they might only switch on the return trip (if the team track remains it would be switched only on the way to Terra Bella. Without the runaround, still the same operation...Even if the runaround were there, I'd likely switch it the same way, unless there were specific cars that had to ship immediately.. Should your operations justify a turn to Guadalajara, make the train run to old mission and turn, switching Guadalajara on the way back. 3) In the Bonneville yard, I presume that the runaround track is the front track around the curve into the yard. Is the rear runaroun required? Seems to be part of the interchange track. If you removed the runaround turnouts, the interchange track could be continued to the mirror enabling more cars to be held in interchange....Live interchange could be simulated by sliding cars on/off that track from the end...If you so desired. 4) I like the Crossing, Is it worth it to extend to extend ATSF to far backdrop? Why not just make the ATsf turn and become continuous loop? Does the ATSF doe anything in East Bonneville? Did you want to simulate the ATSF running through East Bonneville? or does the AT&SF simply turminate in East Bonnie? I presume it is non-operable 5) The ISL guys are promoting "spots". It is having specific spots at industries that makes their small layouts interesting to operate/switch. I'd expect you to do similar. The spots force operators to replace cars if unloading is not complete. 6) The Terra Bella isle may become clostraphic at only 2' wide...Removing the backdrop at Bonneville yard might help...But but would loose some sense of distance...Addiitonally shortening Bonneville Yard by 6-8" would help greatly to provide space for people to turnaround and pass at teh Terra Bella isle entrance. > I'm also wondering if I can build up a fleet of mechanical > reefers to serve the food industries. I guess I could scratch build > one car then copy it in resin? Modern boxcars are no problem thanks > to DesPlaines and American models. I have plenty of PRS grain > hoppers, S scale America and AM open 3 bay hoppers and > have already built 4 cement cars so that's no problem. A couple > of centerbeam or bulkhead lumber cars should not be too much > trouble. I think the 57 foot reefers will be the big challenge > and might be the killer. In S-scale, what is a fleet of mechanical reefers? 4, 6, 8, 10 cars....Scratch building 10 cars (over the next 5 years) does not seem like that big of a deal. Modeling a Shortline like this in S-scale seems like an opporutunity to do that...Fewer structures, trees, locos...time is devoted to making one-off equipment...models that make your layout "unique... Guys such as Clark Probst who models the MSTL in HO, only models one town...It lets him focus on his rolling stock....Such a layout as you have planned would enable you to super detail modern rolling stock...as you see it today... Is the reefer truly the "Killer"... > I guess in practical terms this would all make more sense in HO > scale where less compression could be used and more suitable > equipment is available but model railroaders are not always > practical :>) On another yahoo group (I think LDSIG) I saw you post an n-scale plan for this same space. Knowing your interest in S or even O, I looked at that plan as said "I think the operation of layout could be achieved in S" I wondered if you would be considering an S-scale plan...Now I know you have, and you have shown that most of what you want to could be included (I think)....The S-cale plan probably has as many towns (same walls are usable) and industries. However, it may give up some on distance between towns....resulting in loss of scenery between towns and loss of distance. I counter the distance, with n-scale requires longer trians to feel "right" and since your a shortline (1-2 train operation) it does not matter if a loco switching one town is near another...no interferrence... In general...your correct...HO would be easiest...N-scale works, but so does S-scale....The real question: Does this layout provide the operation that you desire? If not, you may need to reconsider them, then decide if scale also should be reconsidered. ...WARNING: HERE COMES THE PHILOSOPY GRAP... No scale is better...just different...pick a scale and do it... In the time you think about what scale, you could have 1/2 your mechanical reefer fleet built ;-) Wait much longer and you'll never have a railroad... Honestly, I feel your plight of rubber scaling...I'm a rubber gauger, rubber themer, and rubber schemer...At various times, Sn2, S, HO, Sn3, On30 all look good to me....Oh the pain...If I could just get past the barriers and "go for it", I'd be happy...in any of the themes, gauges, etc...I'd be building...which is fun... Anyway, nice plan feel free to email me direct if you want more review of any of your plans/ideas... Dave K. http://www.sn2modeler.com ------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------------------ Yahoo! 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