Yes, I have an assumption that (at some point) just about everything "worth" (undefined) exploitation will be exploited. Time between invention and exploitation... variable. Obviously SOMEONE has to be first and it is my opinion that if nobody has (yet) jumped in to do sage support then it has been unattractive to those who have considered it so far.
I have also assumed that you (William in particular, but others who teach and are close to the development) would be aware if any of your students are supporting sage ex-curricular. Undergrads do this sort of thing, post grads too. Some quit their studies and make their zillions while the (particular) iron is hot (-: A few web searches for "sage support" and similar terms might turn up some moonlighters, or nothing in addition to the forums and docs. I don't think there is evidence before us, either in support of or against a market for sage support/service. -----Original Message----- >From: William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> >Sent: Feb 26, 2011 1:55 AM >To: sage-devel@googlegroups.com >Cc: RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> >Subject: Re: [sage-devel] Re: Support contracts for commercial customers. > >On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 6:41 AM, RegB <2regburg...@earthlink.net> wrote: >> I don't know free market theory at all well - at all for that matter. >> It would SEEM that if market pull exists it would have shown itself >> by now, e.g. enterprising (3rd party) individuals would be selling >> per incident and/or per year contracts to do little more than >> search the docs and forums for answers to users' questions >> and difficulties. >> I know this became a cottage industry with Microsoft Windows >> somewhen around Win95 and the small ads for Win7 persist. >> >> Sage IS much more specialized and a much smaller market, >> but surely SOMEONE would be offering installation support >> and 1st tier answers quite independent of the sage group >> if a market for it existed (?). > >Your argument above seems to be that any market worth "exploiting" is >already being exploited. That makes little sense to me. Sometimes >(often) companies succeed commercially precisely by being the first to >enter a new market. > >You're also assuming that if somebody is offering Sage support in >exchange for money, then we would know about it. This isn't >necessarily the case. > >> Perhaps the docs and forums are just too good (-: >> >> I understand the "policy" issues of commercial IT groups, but >> in reality they don't actually get much "fixed" (off-shore or on- >> shore). >> Promises of a fix in the next release maybe, but that usually just >> brings a new batch of bugs and they DO know this. > >I don't understand this (I'm not saying it's wrong -- it just doesn't >make sense to me). > > -- William > >> >> On Feb 25, 6:16 am, David Kirkby <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote: >>> On 24 February 2011 17:28, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> > I'm also curious about honest *opinions* about how people in the Sage >>> > community would feel about a company making potentially gobs of money >>> > selling support contracts? What balance between profit and giving >>> > back to the community would be appropriate? What services might be >>> > offensive, and what would be OK? >>> >>> People are going to make money from Sage. There is as you know a book >>> being published on Sage. Both the publisher and the author will make >>> money from it. Yet personally I see that as the best thing that could >>> happen to Sage. >>> >>> As for the issue I raised as support contracts, then the following >>> might be a method which would not irritate anyone, so has almost zero >>> probability of losing any Sage developers. Use the money only to >>> >>> 1) Pay for extra hardware. I don't know if you have UPSs, but that >>> would increase the uptime. >>> 2) Pay for advertising Sage in maths journals, New Scientist, or if >>> deemed appropriate, anywhere where the 4 M's are advertised. >>> 3) Pay for targeted advertisements on Google - Mathematica, MATLAB, >>> Maple might be nice keywords. >>> >>> Do *not* pay any individual Sage developer or a mathematician to work >>> on some aspect of Sage, as that could potentially cause a bit of bad >>> feeling. >>> >>> One could sink an endless amount of money into advertising. >>> >>> Make the "accounts" public. State the number of contracts sold >>> (obviously not to who), and disclose how the money has been spent - X >>> to Google, Y for hard disks, Z for UPS's etc. >>> >>> Personally, I don't feel the amount of money raised would be huge. But >>> the fact commercial support was available, could make Sage more >>> attractive to commercial customers. >>> >>> I believe if the money was not payed to any individual developer, then >>> other developers would not mind providing the support for no cost. >>> (Count me as one). >>> >>> > * I'm curious if something like sagenb.org, but with Google ads, >>> > would be offensive. I could see somebody starting a small business >>> > that is just public notebook servers that also have ads. >>> >>> Personally I have no objection. Even a "Paypal donate" button might be >>> a good idea. >>> >>> > I haven't personally made up my mind about any of this. >>> >>> It's not an easy one. You need to be careful not to let it appear one >>> or two developers are making money from the support contracts, while >>> others contribute and get zero in return. >>> >>> But on the other side of the coin, you should realise that some >>> companies will never use software that has no commercial support. I've >>> also met companies that will not use free software, and critise those >>> that do. They see "free" as "inferior". >>> >>> I once had a discussion with a sales rep from National Instruments. >>> They were willing to give Labview to the university for a very modest >>> cost. I pointed out to the sales rep that even a small amount of money >>> was sometimes difficult to raise as the money was already allocated >>> for something else. When I asked her why they would not simply give it >>> free, her response was that something that if something is given free, >>> it is often perceived as having little value, or of low quality. >>> >>> Sage remains free, but if commercial support contracts were available, >>> it might help get Sage into industry. >>> >>> It strikes me Sage has many features mathematicians want, but less so >>> what industrial users might want, so it might be hard to get much >>> take-up in industry. >>> >>> > -- William >>> >>> Dave >> >> -- >> To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to >> sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel >> URL: http://www.sagemath.org >> > > > >-- >William Stein >Professor of Mathematics >University of Washington >http://wstein.org -- To post to this group, send an email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URL: http://www.sagemath.org
