Jeroen Demeyer:
> On 2016-10-18 17:52, Ximin Luo wrote:
>> One straw-man way to resolve this is to move the tests into a separate 
>> Debian package "sagemath-distribution".
> I still think that this is the real solution, also because it mimics what 
> Sage does: within the Sage-the-distribution build system, Sage-the-library 
> (sagelib) is just one of the many packages.
>> However, this makes the workflow very awkward for us, especially when it 
>> comes to distributing binary packages. Debian has automated build systems 
>> that build things on architectures that the developer doesn't have access 
>> to. We would have to build sage-library, upload it, wait for the automated 
>> systems to build it and distribute it, then if this is succesful on all 
>> architectures, only then can we upload sagemath-distribution to run the 
>> actual run-time tests. If any of these fail, we have to start the whole loop 
>> again.
> This really sounds like a Debian-specific problem. I don't understand why 
> Debian makes it so difficult to test a package on the buildbots.
>> if you guys ever convert sagelib into an spkg and have Sage-the-distribution 
>> download this as an external dependency (I see that #21507 goes in this 
>> direction), you will experience this pain yourselves. My guess is you will 
>> then very likely add an exception into Sage-the-distribution to use a local 
>> development copy of sagelib, to reduce the write-run-fix loop time.
> I don't think that Sage-the-distribution will ever treat sagelib exactly like 
> it does other packages. Even if it is a separate package on PyPI, I expect 
> development to remain essentially the same as today.

Do you see the similarity between the Debian scenario and this future potential 
Sage scenario? That is why I mentioned those two together.

You acknowledge that in the Sage scenario, Sage-the-distribution would have to 
treat sagelib specially, and not exactly like the other spkgs.

But no other buildsystem/distribution has the equivalent concept - Debian does 
not have "special" packages where the buildbots say "OK we'll let you do [this 
workflow with sagelib<->fpylll]"; pip doesn't have this; etc etc. Nor do they 
have "whole-distribution" tests - tests are per-package, and are run inside the 
"build" of that package.

This is a fundamental difference in approach to packaging/distribution. I think 
it's not possible (or reasonable) to expect one approach to fit inside the 
other - but we can work out a shared subset that we can both agree to. This 
shared subset would be to avoid creating dependency paths like the current 
fpylll+sagelib situation. It is working well for Debian and SageMath 7.3 so far.


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