Hi,
let me try to make everyone happy by pointing some obvious points:
- realeasing and binary building are different concepts, not to be
confused:
- "release often" is about source code development
- there is a cost in delaying the release: the longer time Sage source
code stays in a frozen state, the longer get the list of positively
reviewed unmerged tickets, the more rebasing work there will be.
- no windows user are expected to compile Sage from the released source
code (yet), they will not be affected by such source-code releases.
- "wait until ready" is about public distribution
- the last windows binary is 8.0, among the 90% of the undergrad
students, only a small part might care about the latest features
introduced in 8.1.
- the patch of #24121 is ready, nothing prevents to apply this ticket
when building 8.1 binary for windows, right after its release so that
windows user will not have to wait for 8.2 either.
- cygwin port could still be considered as not fully mature yet (those are
not criticism, the work that was done already is very huge):
- many optional packages can not be provided yet (i am not sure, please
correct me if i am wrong), they do not go to experimental.
- sage-windows has only one release, that is labelled 0.2.
- the last modification of psutil was done 8 months ago (#21598,
#22625), but #24121 was reported only 5 weeks ago (and set to blocker
9 hours ago)
- the cygwin architecture is not the one used by developers, hence there
are not enough patchbots/buildbots/devs to test it on a regular basis,
and detect such issues earlier.
- the single cygwin patchbot hardly succeeds to pass ticket 0.
Let me witness about the releasing of Sage Debian Live, which have a lot
of similarities with cygwin port:
- its release depends on a single person
- it is 32 bits (in order to run on a wider range of computers)
- no dev runs a 32bit machine with all optional packages installed
- there have been releases that i either had to skip, or to apply some
unmerged tickets by hand to let things work, sometimes much after the
source release, see e.g. [1,2]
- i used to feel some frustration when some 32bit ticket was set to
not-a-blocker (i do not anymore, no idea why actually)
- i did not release 8.0 even if Sage compilation was OK, i prefered to
be sure not to miss something in the migration jessie->stretch
- i am now running a 32bit patchbot (and on the way to run an army of
them with different OSes and sets of optional packages installed)
Let me suggest some concrete things for improving the situation in the
future:
- we should have an explicit (and collectively discussed) list of what
should be considered as blocker and what should not.
- this check-list should be all-green right before a rc0 is triggered.
- we should have more patchbots running weird architectures, and
combinations of optional packages.
Ciao,
Thierry
[1] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sage-release/9isZshOxcjg/8lyCtK0NJAAJ
[2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/sage-release/1lpNhYM22v8/yFzpyO2GlfoJ
On Mon, Dec 04, 2017 at 10:49:56PM +0100, Nicolas M. Thiery wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 02, 2017 at 08:04:50AM -0800, Volker Braun wrote:
> > Unfortunately, Eric's happiness will have to wait for 8.2.beta like
> > all the other tickets ;-)
>
> It's not so much about Erik's happiness than good Cygwin support and
> therefore our Window's user happiness; a rather high priority in my
> view.
>
> Though I do care about Erik's happiness as well :-)
>
> And I also see the tension between release often and wait-until-ready
> schedules. At some point, we should have a discussion about what model
> we want for SageMath, and what prerequisites in terms of continuous
> integration this would take.
>
> Cheers,
> Nicolas
> --
> Nicolas M. Thiéry "Isil" <[email protected]>
> http://Nicolas.Thiery.name/
>
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