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Today's Topics:
1. [EMAIL PROTECTED]: urgent help] (Sai)
2. Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: urgent help] (peekayar)
3. Re: dishhTyA vardhase -- passive? (peekayar)
4. Re: dishhTyA vardhase -- passive? (Sai)
5. more on diSTya vardhase (peekayar)
6. Re: more on diSTya vardhase (Phillip Ernest)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:44:11 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: urgent help]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> I am looking for any work done in Sanskrit, I believe Dandi has done some, which has
> verses or poems or chants which contain all text which is spoken without touching
> the Lips at all such as done for laters m and p.
What kind of work are you looking for?
I am forwarding your request to sanskrit mailing list.
Let's hope somebody helps.
- Sai.
----- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:34:04 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: urgent help
>
> Dear Sai:
> I am looking for any work done in Sanskrit, I believe Dandi has done some, which has
> verses or poems or chants which contain all text which is spoken without touching
> the Lips at all such as done for laters m and p.
>
> Please I need any information urgently.
>
> Neel Kulkarni
> www.authenticyoga.org
----- End forwarded message -----
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:25:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: urgent help]
To: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
When I was learning Sanskrit some 65 years ago
my father used to tell me that Dandi's Dasakumaracharitam is the story of ten
princes who went in different directions and when they returned they were narrating
their stories.
One of them lost his lips and his narration
is without any letter from pavarga (no labial).It isin prose. I had no opportunity to
see this book.
Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am looking for any work done in Sanskrit, I believe Dandi has done some, which has
> verses or poems or chants which contain all text which is spoken without touching
> the Lips at all such as done for laters m and p.
What kind of work are you looking for?
I am forwarding your request to sanskrit mailing list.
Let's hope somebody helps.
- Sai.
----- Forwarded message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] -----
> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:34:04 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: urgent help
>
> Dear Sai:
> I am looking for any work done in Sanskrit, I believe Dandi has done some, which has
> verses or poems or chants which contain all text which is spoken without touching
> the Lips at all such as done for laters m and p.
>
> Please I need any information urgently.
>
> Neel Kulkarni
> www.authenticyoga.org
----- End forwarded message -----
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 20:38:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] dishhTyA vardhase -- passive?
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For diSTyA vR^idh Apte gives the meaning
"to congratulate upon". "vardhase" implies
"you". If we translate this as "I congatulate you
upon your getting Malati for your brother", then "you" will become an object. In this
context you
is a subject. If passive voice is to be avoided
it should be translated as "you stand congratulated because of etc."(because of
tritiiyaa).
There are two types of translations. One is literal.
The other is idiomatic depending on the language.
For example, there is a usage in Sanskrit -
gachChaami punardarshanaaya.
What will it be in English?
P.K.Ramakrishnan
.
Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In the last quiz, both Vis Tekumalla and PKR
translated
> bhadre madayantike diShTyA vardhase bhrAtur
> mAlatIlAbhena
as "... you are ... congratulated ... "
i.e., in the (English) passive voice.
Vis Tekumalla also gave an amusing account of how the
passive voice is used for obfuscation and shirking
responsibility.
> ... they recommend you use passive voice when
> ... it could be inconvenient ... to take
> responsibility ... e.g., �it has been decided
> that December 25 will be a regular workday�
However, the original is not in the passive voice:
"vardhase" means "you grow/you prosper" in the active
voice. Do we think that the congratulation is passive
in INTENT though active in format?
Dhananjay
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 22:12:34 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] dishhTyA vardhase -- passive?
To: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
peekayar uvaacha:
> For diSTyA vR^idh Apte gives the meaning
> "to congratulate upon". "vardhase" implies....
Two points:
1. First, I see no passive voice in this sentence at all.
bhadre madayantike diShTyA vardhase bhrAtur mAlatIlAbhena
2. And I don't see how the meaning
"upon your getting mAlati for your brother"
could be derived from the above sentence.
3. Literally,
diShTyA vardhase = (may) you grow by good fortune
By what convolution of could it be made to mean
"I congratulate you on your good luck" (M-W) ???
It is unclear to me. Yes, Monier-Williams also says that it is
used to mean congratulation. But I don't understand how.
Is there any such idiom in Indian/other languages, where a similar
phrase means congratulations? This leads us to the question,
what does "congratulation" really mean?
an expression to cheerfully acknowledge somebody's achievement/good luck?
2. mAlatI is a female name. A brother won't be named mAlatI.
So in my view, the sentence
bhadre madayantike! bhrAtuH mAlatI-lAbhena diShTyA vardhase
means,
Blessed Madayantika! I congratulate you on brother's gaining/getting of
mAlatI.
If this meaning makes sense can be truly understood only when we know
the context.
- Sai.
peekayar uvaacha:
> For diSTyA vR^idh Apte gives the meaning
> "to congratulate upon". "vardhase" implies
> "you". If we translate this as "I congatulate you
> upon your getting Malati for your brother", then "you" will become an object. In
> this context you
> is a subject. If passive voice is to be avoided
> it should be translated as "you stand congratulated because of etc."(because of
> tritiiyaa).
>
> There are two types of translations. One is literal.
> The other is idiomatic depending on the language.
>
> For example, there is a usage in Sanskrit -
>
> gachChaami punardarshanaaya.
>
> What will it be in English?
>
> P.K.Ramakrishnan
>
>
>
>
>
> .
> Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In the last quiz, both Vis Tekumalla and PKR
> translated
>
> > bhadre madayantike diShTyA vardhase bhrAtur
> > mAlatIlAbhena
>
> as "... you are ... congratulated ... "
>
> i.e., in the (English) passive voice.
>
> Vis Tekumalla also gave an amusing account of how the
> passive voice is used for obfuscation and shirking
> responsibility.
>
> > ... they recommend you use passive voice when
> > ... it could be inconvenient ... to take
> > responsibility ... e.g., �it has been decided
> > that December 25 will be a regular workday�
>
> However, the original is not in the passive voice:
> "vardhase" means "you grow/you prosper" in the active
> voice. Do we think that the congratulation is passive
> in INTENT though active in format?
>
> Dhananjay
>
>
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 21:14:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] more on diSTya vardhase
To: sanskrit digest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Monier Williams gives the meaning
of diSTya vardhase as "you are fortunate".
Here neither "you are congratuled" or
"I congratule you" is used.
P.K.Ramakrishnan
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 01:02:08 -0400
From: Phillip Ernest <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] more on diSTya vardhase
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Quoting peekayar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Monier Williams gives the meaning
> of diSTya vardhase as "you are fortunate".
> Here neither "you are congratuled" or
> "I congratule you" is used.
It's less confusing, thinking it in Sanskrit. It's a problem of translation
rather than meaning, I guess. 'Through good fortune you grow or prosper' is
awkward in English.
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 13, Issue 10
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