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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 26, Issue 25 (J. K. Mohana Rao)
2. verb forms (V Srini)
3. Re: verb forms (Neelesh)
4. Re: da, la. La, etc. (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 14:40:30 -0400
From: "J. K. Mohana Rao" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 26, Issue 25
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 'L' (but not 'Lh') is also an essential component of
> the alphabet in all modern Indian languages south of
> the Sindhi-Gujarati-Marathi-Telugu-Oriya geographical
> line. But it is phonemically related to 'l' and not
> 'D', so no spurious connection should be made with the
> vedic usage.
In the Dravidian languages, there is a connection between
L (and lzh in tamil) and D. Words like kOlzhi becomes kODi
in telugu, chOlzha becomes chODa. Even words like vaLi
(from Sanskrit vali) becomes vaDi in telugu.
Regards! - J K Mohana Rao
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:11:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: V Srini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] verb forms
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
does any one know a source (book, download, etc) that
lists all verbal conjugations/derivatives, etc, in a
comprehensive way?
I have a version of Dhaturuupakosa which has some of
this info for some of the verbs, not all info all
verbs.
What I am looking for is:
given "nii", I should have niitvaa, netum, niita, . .
. . all 10 conjugational forms for all genders and
sg/dbl/plural, derivative forms such as "aanayati",
etc. etc. Similarly "tyaj" should include, among other
forms, "tyaktvaa" as well as "parityajya".
many appendixes in grammar books and other books (by
whitney) have some verbs, not all. Even those that
have it, are not complete.
Although some of these are formed from the verbal root
by rules, some forms cannot be "deduced" from any
rules. That is why the need for a "verb forms encuclopaedia"
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 04:55:36 +0100 (BST)
From: Neelesh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] verb forms
To: V Srini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
MarAthiBhAShayAm "shabda-Dhatu-ruPavali" iti naamna
eka laghu-pustikA asti | anekAnAm shabdAnAm dhAtunAm
cha rupANi tatha GaNaPratyayAni tasyam likhitAni |
There is a small booklet called
"Shabda-Dhatu-Rupaavli" in Marathi, Written by (Late)
Pt. Rajaramshastri Natekar. This booklet proves to be
very useful while working with nouns or verbs which
we need in day-to-day life. Its not a reference, (and
certainly not an encyclopedia as asked in your mail)
but its a good book to have with.
Of course, that will be useful only if you know a bit
of marathi. (It basically deals with all sanskrit
nouns and verbs that a std 10 Sanskrit course of
Maharashtra Board expects students to learn.)
ityalam,
Neelesh
--- V Srini <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> does any one know a source (book, download, etc)
> that
> lists all verbal conjugations/derivatives, etc, in a
> comprehensive way?
>
> I have a version of Dhaturuupakosa which has some of
> this info for some of the verbs, not all info all
> verbs.
>
> What I am looking for is:
> given "nii", I should have niitvaa, netum, niita, .
> .
> . . all 10 conjugational forms for all genders and
> sg/dbl/plural, derivative forms such as "aanayati",
> etc. etc. Similarly "tyaj" should include, among
> other
> forms, "tyaktvaa" as well as "parityajya".
>
> many appendixes in grammar books and other books (by
> whitney) have some verbs, not all. Even those that
> have it, are not complete.
>
> Although some of these are formed from the verbal
> root
> by rules, some forms cannot be "deduced" from any
> rules. That is why the need for a "verb forms
> encuclopaedia"
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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> sanskrit mailing list
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Message: 4
Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 22:29:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: da, la. La, etc.
To: sanskrit digest <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Extract from Vedic Vocalisation and Regional Languages (from Hindu Dharma)
By Sri Chandrasekharendra Saraswarthi of Kanchi
If we relate certain characteristics of the different languages of India to how
Vedic chanting differs syllabically from region to region, we will discover the
important fact that the genius of each of these tongues and the differences
between them are based on how the Vedas are chanted in these regions. I make
here certain observations based on my own philological researches.
The letters da, ra, la and zha are phonetically close to one another. Ask a
child to say "rail" or "Rama", in all likelihood it will say "dail", "Dama".
The reason is "da" is phonetically close to "ra". Quite a few people say
"Sivalatri" for "Sivaratri". And some say "tulippora" for "tulippola" (Tamil
for "just a little"). Here "la" and "ra" sound similar. I spoke about how "ra"
and "da" change. So "la" can change to "da". "La" is very close to "la".
Usually what we pronounce as "lalita", "nalina", and "sitala" will be found in
Sanskrit books as "lalita", "nalina" and "sitala". There is no need to say how
"la" and "zha" are close friends. Madurai is indeed the city of Tamil but here
people say "valapalam" (plantain) for "vazha-pazham". That is they use "la" for
"zha", a letter we believe to be unique to the Tamil (or Tamizh) language.
Here I should like to mention an idea likely to sound new to you. What is
considered unique to Tamil, "zha" [retroflex affirmative], is present in the
Vedas also. Jaimini is one of the Samaveda sakhas: it is also called the
Talavakara Sakha. The "da" or "la" of other Vedas or sakhas sounds like "zha'
in the Talavakara Sakha. Those who have properly learned this recension say
"zha" for "da" or "la". Perhaps it is not a full"zha" sound but something
approximating to it, or something in which the "zha" sound is latent.
The "zha-kara" occurs even in the Rgveda in some places. Usually "da" and "la"
are interchanged and where there is "da-kara" in the Yajurveda it is "la-kara"
in the Rgveda. The very first mantra in the Vedas is Agnimide". "Agnimide" is
according to the Yajurveda which has the largest following. In the Rgveda the
same word occurs as "Agnimile". The "le" here is to be pronounced almost as
"zhe". In the famous Sri Rudra hymn of the Yajurveda occurs the word
"Midustamaya". The same word is found in the Rgveda also and the "du" ini the
"midu" sound like "zhu" instead of sounding like "lu" - that is the "zha-kara"
is latent in how the syllable is vocalised.
Generally speaking, the "la" in the Rgveda is "da" in the Yajurveda and "zha"
in the Talavakara Samaveda. Now let us take up the regions where each of the
Vedas has a large following and consider the social features of the language
spoken in each such region.
The view is propagated that the Vedas belong to the Aryans, that the Dravidians
have nothing to do with them. Let us take three of the four Dravidian states
for consideration, that is the regions where Tamil, Telegu and Kannada are
spoken.
The "zha-kara" is special to Tamil, "da" to Telugu and "la" to Kannada. Where
"zha" occurs in Tamil, it is "da" in Telugu and "la" in Kannada. Take the
Sanskrit word "pravala" (coral). It is "pavazham" in Tamil, "pakadalu" in
Telegu and "havala" in Kannada.
"Pavazham" is derived from "pravala", so too "pakadalu" in Telegu, in which
language the original Sanskrit word has changed more than in Tamil: the "va" of
"pravala" has become "ka" but it is according to the genius of that language.
How has the word changed in Kannada? In Tamil and Telegu the change from the
Sanskrit "pra" to "pa" is but small. But in Kannada the "pra" becomes "ha" and
that of course is according to the genius of that language. The "pa" in the
other languages becomes "ha" in Kannada. Thus "Pampa" becomes "Hampa" and then
"Hampi" (you must gave heard of the ruins of Hampi ). The Tamil "pal" for milk
is "halu" in Kannada and the Tamil "puhazh" (fame) is "hogalu" in Kannada. In
the same manner "pravala" becomes "havala" in Kannada.
It was not my purpose to speak about the "pa-ha" relationship. All I wanted to
point out was how the "la" of Sanskrit is the "zha" of Tamil and the "da" of
Telugu. In Kannada, however, there is no change. The "la" remains "la".
You see this difference not only with respect to words of Sanskrit origin but
also with respect to those belonging to the Dravidian group. The word
"puhazh"(or pugazh) cited earlier is an example in this connection- it is not a
Sanskrit word.
(From our present state of investigations we know this: our people belong to
one family. They are not racially divided into Aryans and Dravidians but are
divided into those speaking languages related to Sanskrit on the one hand and
those speaking Dravidian tongues on the other. Further research is likely to
reveal that even this linguistic difference is not real and that both Sanskrit
and Dravidian languages are from the same parent stock. Some linguists are
known to be examining the possible bounds that unite Sanskrit and Tamil. If we
go back to very early times, we may discover that the two languages are of the
same stock. But during the thousands of years subsequent to that period, the
Dravidian languages must have evolved separately. It is in this sense that I
speak of the "Dravidian" languages as being distinct from Sanskrit. )
I wondered whether there was any special reason why the "zha" of Tamil should
be the "da" of Telugu and the "la" of Kannada. I came to the conclusion that
the differences were related to how the Vedas are chanted in the regions where
these languages are spoken.
The predominant Veda in the western region [of Peninsular India], including
Maharastra and Karnataka, is the Rgveda. In the region from Nasik to
Kanyakumari, the Rgveda has the widest following. Kannada is one of the
languages spoken here and "la" has a unique place in it. And this "la", special
to Kannada, which is considered a Dravidian regional language, is Vedic in
origin.
If we go to that part of the eastern seashore and the hinterland that form
Andhra Pradesh, we find that 98 out of 100 people (Brahmins) here are
Yajurvedins. The remaining two percent are Rgvedins. There are practically no
Samavedins in Andhra Pradesh. Since Yajurvedins are the predominant group the
Rgvedic "la" is "da" here, so also the "la" of other languages.
In Tamil Nadu also Yajurvedins are in a majority though not to the same extent
as in Andhra Pradesh. Here 80 percent are Yajurvedins, 15 percent Samavedins
and 5 percent Rgvedins. In ancient times, however, the Samavedins formed quite
a large group- there is evidence for such a belief. It is likely that there
were Brahmins belonging to all the 1,000 recensions of the Samaveda in the
Tamil land. Isvara is extolled in the Tevaram as "Ayiram-sakhai-udaiyan" (one
with a thousand Vedic recensions).
*******************************
So far I have confined myself to the languages of the Dravidian region. Now I
will speak on the same theme with reference to the other parts of India and to
other countries of the world.
It is customary in the North to use "ja" for "ya" and "ba" for "va"- both in
literary and colloquial usage. The use of "ba" for "va" is noticeable
particularly in Bengal and "ja" for "ya" in Uttar Pradesh, and Punjab, etc.
In Bengal they follow the dictum, "vabayorabhedam" - there is no difference
between "va" and 'ba". In Tamil too"Bhisma" is sometimes referred to as
"Vittumar" and "Bhima" as "Vima". In Bengali, all "va's" are vocalised as
"ba's". Indeed "Bengal" itself is from "Vanga".
Bengalis say "Bangabasi" for "Vangavasi"( a resident of Bengali). Once they
realised that changing all"va's" universally into "ba's" was not right and
called a parisad[ a meeting of scholars] to consider the question- it was
called the "Vanga Parisad". According to one of its decisions all "ba-kara" in
Bengali books to be printed thenceforth was to be changed to "va-kara". They
strictly carried out the decision. But in doing so they also changed what
should naturally be "ba" into "va"- for instance, "bandhu" into "vandhu",
"Bangabandhu" into "Vangavandhu".
As observed earlier, in other regions of the North too "ba" is used for "va".
For example, the name "Bihar" itself is from "Vihar". (Once there were many
Buddhist viharas, temples or monasteries, in this region) The name "Rasbihari"
is from "Rasavihari". How would you explain this practice? Such usage is laid
down in the Pratisakhya of the Vedic recension followed in these parts. People
there applied the rule of the Pratisakhya to their ordinary writing and speech
also. It also follows that the rules laid down by the Vedic sastras have been
faithfully followed in this region.
Yajurvedins, it will be remembered, from the majority in the country taken as a
whole. The Krsna-Yajurveda is followed in the South and the Sukla-Yajurveda in
the North. There is a sakha of the latter called "Madhyandina" and it has a
large following in the North. In its Pratisakhya it is said that "ja" may be
used in place of 'ya", and "ka' in place of 'sa". we say in the South "yat
Purusena havisa"(from Purusasukta); the Northern version of the same is "jat
Purusena havika". We are amused by such chanting and we even feel angry that
the Vedas are being distorted. At the same time we feel proud that we in the
south maintain the purity of the Vedic sound. However, the "ja" and 'ka" in the
Northern intonation have the sanction of the Siksa sastra.
It is only phonemes that are close to one another that are interchanged. There
are examples in Tamil also to show that "ja" and " ya" are closely related.
"Java(the "Javaka" island) is referred to in Tamil works as "Yavaka".
Generally, if 'ja" comes as the initial letter of a word it is spelt as 'sa" in
Tamil, but if it comes in the middle it becomes "ya'- "Aja(n)" and "Pankaja(m)"
become "Ayan and Pangayam". "Sa" is a form of sa. If "sa" and 'ka" are
interchangeable so too, it seems, "sa" and "ka". In keeping with this what is
"kai" (hand) in Tamil is "sey" in Telugu. "Doing" (performing some work) is the
function of the hand(in Tamil "seyvadu"). So better than the Tamil "kai" is the
Telegu "sey" which denotes the function of the hand. In Sanskrit the word
"kara" has the meaning of "to do" as well as the hand--"Samkara"("Sankara") one
who does good; "karomi" is "I do". One wonders whether in Tamil too "sey" was
originally used to denote the hand and then "kai" came to be use
d. Now
"sey" is a verb in that language. The "sa"(or "sa"), it is likely, changed to
"ka" and then "kai". One more point: "sa" and "ksa" are related sounds. So for
"ksa" to become "ka" is natural "Aksam" -"akkam"; "daksinam" - "dakkanam";
"ksanam" _"kanam". Such examples could be multiplied.
We have seen that "ba" becomes "va" in Tamil while in the Northern languages it
is the other way round. Similarly, "ja" becomes "ya" and 'sa" becomes "ka" in
Tamil while in the Northern languages "ya" and "sa" become "ja" and "ka"
respectively. That is according to the Vedic recension followed there and the
rules of the Siksa relating to it. That is the reason why Northerners chant
"jat" Purusena havika" for "yat Purusena havisa".
This change is to be seen in so many other words in the North: "Jamuna" for
Yamuna"; "jogi" for yogi(n); "jug-jug" for yuga-yuga; "jaatra for "yatra". "Sa"
is changes to ka" and so "rsi" becomes "riki". As we have seen, "ksa" and "sa"
are related. Even in the South we hear people saying "Lasimi for "Laksmi"- they
even write like that. In the North "ka" is used for "ksa"- for instance "Khir"
for "ksira". The same applies to Tamil usage also-"Ilakkumi" for "Laksmi".
Let us now turn to other countries, first to the land which saw the birth of
Christianity, to the Semitic countries like Palestine and Israel. The Old
Testament is basic to the Quran also. Some characters are common to
Christianity and Islam, but in Arabic they are pronounced differently. Joseph
becomes "Yusuf" and Jehovah becomes "Yehivah". There are differences among the
Christian nations too. In some languages you see "ja-kara" to be prominent.
"Jesu" and "Yesu", the name of the very founder of Christianity, is spelt
differently. "Ja-kara" is a characteristic of Greek also. We could trace the
root of all this to the Vedas. Jehivah or Yehovah is the same as the Vedic
deity Yahvan. "Dyau-Pitar"(Dyava_Prithivi)becomes Jupiter. Sanskrit words lose
their initial letter when borrowed by other languages. So Dyau_Pitar becomes
"Yau-Pitar" and then Jupiter.
What were originally Yahvan and Dyau-pitar changed to Jehovah and Jupiter with
the addition of the "ja-kara". In the beginning the Vedic religion was
practised everywhere. It is likely that the Madhyandina Sakha was followed in
Greece and its neighbourhood.
end of this exptract
Sorry for the length.
PKRamakrishnan
1st June 2005
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