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Today's Topics:
1. mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH (Jay Vaidya)
2. udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 14 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
3. Re: mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH (Ambujam Raman)
4. Re: mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH (Sai)
5. Re: udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 14 (Sai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 12:56:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
vikramasya pada-vibhAjanaM rUpa-GYApanaM cha sAdhU, na
tu anya iti mama matam |
tatra "mUrdhnya" iti prayogaH kasmAt taddhita-pratyAd
udbhUtaH tad durbodham | tathaiva "spR^isha" iti
prayogaH |
dhana.njayaH
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 13
>For the root spR^ish [6 parasmaipadi - tudAdi] the
> anadyatanabhUte la~N form for 2nd person singular is
> aspR^ishaH = you touched.
>
>> In my opinion this should be treated as a compound:
>> mUrdhanya + spR^ishaH which is a samaanaadhikarNa
>> bahuvIhi and means:
>> one who on the head (mUrdhanyaH) got
>> touched(spR^shaH) i.e., agastya
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 07:30:00 -0700
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 14
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Translation by Vikram Santurkar under supervision of Dr. Sarasvati Mohan
shlokaH 14
yachchApi tvamR^iShInmUDha brahmakalpAndurAsadAn .
vAhAnkR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAddhataprabhaH .. 14..\
padavibhaagaH
yat cha api tvam R^iShIn mUDha brahmakalpAn durAsadAn .
vAhAn kR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAt hataprabhaH ..
anvayaH
mUDha yat cha api tvam R^iShIn brahmakalpAn
durAsadAn vAhAn kR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAt hataprabhaH
pratipadaarthaH
mUDha=O foolish one;
yat=whatever;
cha=and;
api=also;
tvam=you;
R^iShIn=rishis;
brahmakalpAn=almost equal to god;
durAsadAn=un-equalled;
vAhAn=vehicle;
kR^itvA=having done;
vAhayasi=you caused to carry;
tena=by that;
svargAt=from the heavens;
hataprabhaH=deprived of brilliance;
anuvAdaH
Agastya to Nahusha: O foolish one, you having made the un-equalled rishis
(almost equal to God) carry the vehicle, by that you are deprived of brilliance
from the heavens.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 10:31:04 -0400
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH
To: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Jay
Thanks for your clarification. I am trying to understand 'sandhi' vs
'samaasaM'. Perhaps I am choosing a poor example but I am interested in the
principle here.
You have explained previously that the difference between an adjective and a
noun is artificial. The same word can perform dual function; as an
adjective or as a noun.
The word 'sparsha' is an adjective when we say 'sparshendriyaM' (organ of
touch) but is a noun when we say 'agninaa sparshaH' (one who is touched by
fire). The word itself is derived from the tudati dhatu 'sp^Rish
samsparshane' using the kridaanta 'ga~n'. Hence the 'na~n' samaasa word
'asparshaH' would mean one not touched.
Similarly from the word 'mUrdhan' (muhyati asmin hate iti (uNaadi))using the
taddhita 'yat' the word 'mUrdhanya' is derived (see Apte) meaning 'on the
head'.
Hence the bahuvrIhi compound 'mUrdhanyasparshaH' would mean 'one who is
touched on the head'.
On the other hand the same word can be dissolved using sandhi as 'mUrdhani +
asparshaH' meaning 'one who is not touched on the head'. Of course by
considering 'asparshaH' (as the past imperfect 2nd person as Vikram has
done) also means 'you touched on the head'.
These too are diametrically opposite and one can only guess the meaning from
the context. Is there a rule of precedance for sandhi vs samaasa. Much
obliged for your clarification. I am posting it here so that the benefit of
your discussion may reach a wider audience.
dhanyavad
rAmaH
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:56 PM
Subject: [Sanskrit] mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH
> vikramasya pada-vibhAjanaM rUpa-GYApanaM cha sAdhU, na
> tu anya iti mama matam |
>
> tatra "mUrdhnya" iti prayogaH kasmAt taddhita-pratyAd
> udbhUtaH tad durbodham | tathaiva "spR^isha" iti
> prayogaH |
>
> dhana.njayaH
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 13
>>For the root spR^ish [6 parasmaipadi - tudAdi] the
>> anadyatanabhUte la~N form for 2nd person singular is
>> aspR^ishaH = you touched.
>>
>>> In my opinion this should be treated as a compound:
>>> mUrdhanya + spR^ishaH which is a samaanaadhikarNa
>>> bahuvIhi and means:
>>> one who on the head (mUrdhanyaH) got
>>> touched(spR^shaH) i.e., agastya
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
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>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:37:32 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH
To: Ambujam Raman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I am totally unable to follow what you folks are discussing here.
Isn't it crystal clear that
mUrdhni + aspR^iSaH = on the head + you touched ???
aspR^iSaH is just like agamaH (you went) isn't it?
I don't see scope for a samAsam here. It's just a sandhi.
BTW the original phrase is not mUrdhanyasparSaH but
mUrdhnyaspR^iSaH
Or, is it true that you're discussing what mUrdhanyasparSaH would mean
had it been used here instead of mUrdhnyaspR^iSaH ?
I am unable to see how all the complicated logic used here is
necessary to explain this phrase. What am I missing?
Enlighten me.
kR^ipayA dyotayantu.
- Sai.
Ambujam Raman uvaacha:
> Jay
>
> Thanks for your clarification. I am trying to understand 'sandhi' vs
> 'samaasaM'. Perhaps I am choosing a poor example but I am interested in the
> principle here.
>
> You have explained previously that the difference between an adjective and
> a noun is artificial. The same word can perform dual function; as an
> adjective or as a noun.
>
> The word 'sparsha' is an adjective when we say 'sparshendriyaM' (organ of
> touch) but is a noun when we say 'agninaa sparshaH' (one who is touched by
> fire). The word itself is derived from the tudati dhatu 'sp^Rish
> samsparshane' using the kridaanta 'ga~n'. Hence the 'na~n' samaasa word
> 'asparshaH' would mean one not touched.
>
> Similarly from the word 'mUrdhan' (muhyati asmin hate iti (uNaadi))using
> the taddhita 'yat' the word 'mUrdhanya' is derived (see Apte) meaning 'on
> the head'.
>
> Hence the bahuvrIhi compound 'mUrdhanyasparshaH' would mean 'one who is
> touched on the head'.
>
> On the other hand the same word can be dissolved using sandhi as 'mUrdhani
> + asparshaH' meaning 'one who is not touched on the head'. Of course by
> considering 'asparshaH' (as the past imperfect 2nd person as Vikram has
> done) also means 'you touched on the head'.
>
> These too are diametrically opposite and one can only guess the meaning
> from the context. Is there a rule of precedance for sandhi vs samaasa. Much
> obliged for your clarification. I am posting it here so that the benefit of
> your discussion may reach a wider audience.
>
> dhanyavad
>
> rAmaH
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jay Vaidya" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 3:56 PM
> Subject: [Sanskrit] mUrdhni+aspR^ishaH
>
>
> >vikramasya pada-vibhAjanaM rUpa-GYApanaM cha sAdhU, na
> >tu anya iti mama matam |
> >
> >tatra "mUrdhnya" iti prayogaH kasmAt taddhita-pratyAd
> >udbhUtaH tad durbodham | tathaiva "spR^isha" iti
> >prayogaH |
> >
> >dhana.njayaH
> >
> >Message: 3
> >Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2005 21:22:42 -0700 (PDT)
> >From: Vikram Santurkar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 13
> >>For the root spR^ish [6 parasmaipadi - tudAdi] the
> >>anadyatanabhUte la~N form for 2nd person singular is
> >>aspR^ishaH = you touched.
> >>
> >>>In my opinion this should be treated as a compound:
> >>>mUrdhanya + spR^ishaH which is a samaanaadhikarNa
> >>>bahuvIhi and means:
> >>>one who on the head (mUrdhanyaH) got
> >>>touched(spR^shaH) i.e., agastya
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Yahoo! Mail
> >Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> >http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >sanskrit mailing list
> >[email protected]
> >http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sanskrit mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 15 Jul 2005 11:55:02 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] udyogaparvam - sarga 17 - 14
To: Divya Jhingran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> > vAhAn=vehicle;
> > kR^itvA=having done;
> > vAhayasi=you caused to carry;
Divya,
yours is closer to the true translation than the one given.
An even closer translation would be
"you turn the great rishis into your personal vehicles and make them
carry you? Moron!"
It's such a simple and natural expression of irritation by a guy who
is peeved at the way NahuSha is behaving :-)
I like that phrase "vAhAn kR^itvA vAhayasi! mUDha!".
Just like the other phrase I posted earlier
"dIrgha-bAhur-viraumi eSha, na hi kaSchit SR^iNoti mAm!",
"sa kimartham sa sevyate?"
And I love Vyasa's sanskrit usage. It's so simple, natural, colloquial
and alive, just like the usage of one's mother tongue. It's the sign of
a living language.
- Sai.
Divya Jhingran uvaacha:
> Thank you very much for sharing your hard work with us. I am enjoying
> this tremendously and learning a lot.
>
> One question. In stanza 8 it is stated that the rishis were carrying
> Nahusha. With reference to that, I'm wondering if the translation of
> this stanza should be as follows: "since you used the Rishis as a
> vehicle" instead of "made the rishis carry the vehicle"?
>
> Regards,
> Divya
>
>
> On 7/15/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Translation by Vikram Santurkar under supervision of Dr. Sarasvati Mohan
> >
> > shlokaH 14
> > yachchApi tvamR^iShInmUDha brahmakalpAndurAsadAn .
> > vAhAnkR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAddhataprabhaH .. 14..\
> >
> > padavibhaagaH
> > yat cha api tvam R^iShIn mUDha brahmakalpAn durAsadAn .
> > vAhAn kR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAt hataprabhaH ..
> >
> > anvayaH
> > mUDha yat cha api tvam R^iShIn brahmakalpAn
> > durAsadAn vAhAn kR^itvA vAhayasi tena svargAt hataprabhaH
> >
> > pratipadaarthaH
> > mUDha=O foolish one;
> > yat=whatever;
> > cha=and;
> > api=also;
> > tvam=you;
> > R^iShIn=rishis;
> > brahmakalpAn=almost equal to god;
> > durAsadAn=un-equalled;
> > vAhAn=vehicle;
> > kR^itvA=having done;
> > vAhayasi=you caused to carry;
> > tena=by that;
> > svargAt=from the heavens;
> > hataprabhaH=deprived of brilliance;
> >
> > anuvAdaH
> > Agastya to Nahusha: O foolish one, you having made the un-equalled rishis
> > (almost equal to God) carry the vehicle, by that you are deprived of
> > brilliance
> > from the heavens.
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sanskrit mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.cs.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/sanskrit
> >
------------------------------
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End of sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 18
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