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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28 (G?rard Huet)
2. icchantaH etc (Jay Vaidya)
3. Re: Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28 (Sai)
4. icchantaH etc. erratum (Jay Vaidya)
5. kALidAsa daSaSlokI - quiz 3 of 13 (Sai)
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:54:47 +0200
From: G?rard Huet<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28
To: [email protected]
Cc: G?rard Huet<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Le 25 juil. 05 à 20:01, David Mitchell a écrit :
>
> I have noticed that sometimes verbs are declined, such as the word
> "icchantah" in Bhag. Gita 8.11. What effect does this have on the
> verb? Does it become a passive, or maybe an adj.? I've noticed this
> often and can't find anything on it in my text books.
"icchantas" is a present participle. It combines with its object
"saantim (in the accusative)
to form a participial clause, here akin to an adjective governing the
substantive virodhaa.h.
There is agreement, and thus "icchantas" is in the plural. "sandhim
k.rtavanta.h" is a similar
construction, here the main clause of the sentence.
Here is how to recognize such forms with my lemmatizer, accessible at
URL
http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/index.html#stemmer
You enter the form icchantas (or equivalently icchanta.h) and you
press the button "Part" (guessing
that it is a participle). Then press Search, and the system will
return all possible morphological
taggings in this lexical category. Here it finds two, corresponding
to the nominative and vocative
plural of the masculine present participle of root "i.s#1" (there are
two "i.s" roots). Actually
"i.s#1" is a link to the corresponding entry in the lexicon, where
you can check its meaning (given in
French - souhaiter = eng. to wish). This entry has a grammatical mark
[6], meaning 6th present class.
The red 6 is itself a link to a conjugation engine which will give
you all forms of this root.
First you have the finite tensed forms, then participles. You will
find the present active participle
"icchat" given with gender marks m. and n. (f. for feminine
icchantii). Again the "m." mark is a
link to the declensions of the masculine forms of this participle,
which you may press to check
that "icchantas" indeed appears as a plural form in the vocative and
nominative - you thus have
gone full circle in the grammar, going in the generation direction
rather than the analysis one.
Beware: the lemmatizer recognizes only root forms, and thus preverbs
have to be removed from verbs.
GH
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] icchantaH etc
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
The closest English equivalent to the form
"ichchhantaH" is the "adjectival use of the present
participle".
For the exactitude-loving English scholars amongst us:
This is ABSOLUTELY NOT the gerund.
Furthermore, in sa.nskR^ita, it CANNOT be used to form
a continuous tense as with English.
The boy is running --
WRONG mAnavako dhAvan asti WRONG
See the running boy.
CORRECT dhAvantaM mANavakaM pashya CORRECT
This form can be made into active or passive
constructions:
To be explicitly clear: Active/passive is NOT a
distinction between parasmai/Atmane. For ubhayapadI
verbs either has the active form pachat/pachamAna have
APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
odanam pachamAnaM purushham pashya |
oda pachantaM purushham pashya |
Both approximately mean
"See the man cooking rice."
The only difference is that "pachamAna" implies that
the man is cooking the rice for himself, "pachat"
implies that the man is cooking the rice for someone
else to eat.
Now for active/passive examples:
ichchhat - (active) coordinates (i.e., has the same
case forms as) the DESIRER
e.g., moxam ichchhantaM manushhyaM pAti devaH |
God saves the man desiring salvation.
ishhyamANa (same verb, passive form) coordinates with
the DESIRED OBJECT
e.g., ishhyamANaM moxaM labhate sAdhvI |
The saintly woman gets the desired salvation.
NOTE: passives are always declined in Atmanepada, the
termination being -(m)Ana, in place of -at
The parallelism is more obvious with AtmanepadI verbs:
labhamAna - (active)
labhyamAna - (passive)
bhixAM labhamAnaM bhixuM pashyAmi |
I see the beggar receiving alms.
bhixvA labhyamAnAM bhixAM pashyAmi |
I see the alms received by the beggar.
-------------------------------------
As far as possible, please avoid trying to fit
Sanskrit usages into the uncomfortable boxes of
"adjective", etc.
Also, unless you are EXTREMELY SURE of the idiomatic
usage, avoid using these forms ending in -at and -Ana
in the prathamA vibhakti.
Dhananjay
> I have noticed that sometimes verbs are declined,
> such as the word "icchantah" in Bhag. Gita 8.11.
> What effect does this have on the verb? Does it
> become a passive, or maybe an adj.? I've noticed
> this often and can't find anything on it in my
> text books.
> ... David Mitchell
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:52:00 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28
To: G?rard Huet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This site is really nice.
How do you say whether a verb form is Atmane or parasmai padi?
- Sai.
G?rard Huet uvaacha:
> Here is how to recognize such forms with my lemmatizer, accessible at
> URL
> http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/index.html#stemmer
> You enter the form icchantas (or equivalently icchanta.h) and you
> press the button "Part" (guessing
> that it is a participle). Then press Search, and the system will
> return all possible morphological
> taggings in this lexical category. Here it finds two, corresponding
> to the nominative and vocative
> plural of the masculine present participle of root "i.s#1" (there are
> two "i.s" roots). Actually
> "i.s#1" is a link to the corresponding entry in the lexicon, where
> you can check its meaning (given in
> French - souhaiter = eng. to wish). This entry has a grammatical mark
> [6], meaning 6th present class.
> The red 6 is itself a link to a conjugation engine which will give
> you all forms of this root.
> First you have the finite tensed forms, then participles. You will
> find the present active participle
> "icchat" given with gender marks m. and n. (f. for feminine
> icchantii). Again the "m." mark is a
> link to the declensions of the masculine forms of this participle,
> which you may press to check
> that "icchantas" indeed appears as a plural form in the vocative and
> nominative - you thus have
> gone full circle in the grammar, going in the generation direction
> rather than the analysis one.
> Beware: the lemmatizer recognizes only root forms, and thus preverbs
> have to be removed from verbs.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] icchantaH etc. erratum
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Erratum:
oda*naM* pachantaM purushham pashya |
There are also some typos ("grammo"s) in the English
e.g.,
For ubhayapadI verbs either has the active form
pachat/pachamAna have APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
should be:
For ubhayapadI verbs, either active form
pachat/pachamAna *has* APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
I hope none of the typos actually distort the meaning.
Jay
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:08:50 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] kALidAsa daSaSlokI - quiz 3 of 13
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
mitrANi,
Due to other preoccupations, I had stopped kALidAsa daSaSloki quiz
for a long time. I'd like to resume it. I post Sloka 3 below.
I request more people to participate. There are several advantages to
trying it out:
The poem is so beautiful yet difficult. Attempting to
understand even bits and pieces of it gives great satisfaction. Also,
while analysing it, you'll get to read it so many times
that its rhythm will be permanently registered in your mind.
And your vocabulary improves as you consult dictionaries.
What more can you ask for? You can listen to it online:
http://surasa.net/music/madugula/devi/
I request Sri D.H.Rao to send me his authoritative meanings for
comparison. As he suggested, let us do a full stanza at a time for
coherence.
Send your answers to me. I'll post all answers on tuesday Aug 2.
Sloka 3 of 13: (meanings and gist due by end of next monday, Aug 1, 2005).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's Sri D.H.Rao's version:
yaa aliibhir aatma tanutaa aliina kR^it priyaka paaliiSu khelati bhava
vyaalii nakuli+asita cuulii bharaa caraNa dhuulii lasat+muni gaNaa |
yaa aalii bhR^iti shravasi taalii dalam vahati yaa aliika shobhi tilakaa
saa aalii karotu mama kaalii mana sva pada naaliika sevana vidhau || 3
However, the first and third lines are different in the version sung by
Sri Madugula:
aaliibhir aapta tanuraalI lasat kriya kapoLiiSu khelati bhava
aalii bhR^ita shravasi taalii dalam vahati yaa+aliika shobhi tilakaa
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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