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Today's Topics:
1. RE: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29 (Shashidhara S G)
2. daSaSlokI stuti - Sloka 2.2 meanings (Sai)
3. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28 (Ramanathan Jambunathan)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:52:18 +0530
From: "Shashidhara S G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] RE: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29
To: <[email protected]>
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hi All,
I would like to know if there are any internet link to understand the meaning
of purusha sooktha. Pls let me know if any of you are aware of it.
Thx
Shashi
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
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Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 29
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28 (G?rard Huet)
2. icchantaH etc (Jay Vaidya)
3. Re: Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28 (Sai)
4. icchantaH etc. erratum (Jay Vaidya)
5. kALidAsa daSaSlokI - quiz 3 of 13 (Sai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 21:54:47 +0200
From: G?rard Huet<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28
To: [email protected]
Cc: G?rard Huet<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed
Le 25 juil. 05 à 20:01, David Mitchell a écrit :
>
> I have noticed that sometimes verbs are declined, such as the word
> "icchantah" in Bhag. Gita 8.11. What effect does this have on the
> verb? Does it become a passive, or maybe an adj.? I've noticed this
> often and can't find anything on it in my text books.
"icchantas" is a present participle. It combines with its object
"saantim (in the accusative)
to form a participial clause, here akin to an adjective governing the
substantive virodhaa.h.
There is agreement, and thus "icchantas" is in the plural. "sandhim
k.rtavanta.h" is a similar
construction, here the main clause of the sentence.
Here is how to recognize such forms with my lemmatizer, accessible at
URL
http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/index.html#stemmer
You enter the form icchantas (or equivalently icchanta.h) and you
press the button "Part" (guessing
that it is a participle). Then press Search, and the system will
return all possible morphological
taggings in this lexical category. Here it finds two, corresponding
to the nominative and vocative
plural of the masculine present participle of root "i.s#1" (there are
two "i.s" roots). Actually
"i.s#1" is a link to the corresponding entry in the lexicon, where
you can check its meaning (given in
French - souhaiter = eng. to wish). This entry has a grammatical mark
[6], meaning 6th present class.
The red 6 is itself a link to a conjugation engine which will give
you all forms of this root.
First you have the finite tensed forms, then participles. You will
find the present active participle
"icchat" given with gender marks m. and n. (f. for feminine
icchantii). Again the "m." mark is a
link to the declensions of the masculine forms of this participle,
which you may press to check
that "icchantas" indeed appears as a plural form in the vocative and
nominative - you thus have
gone full circle in the grammar, going in the generation direction
rather than the analysis one.
Beware: the lemmatizer recognizes only root forms, and thus preverbs
have to be removed from verbs.
GH
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 13:14:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] icchantaH etc
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
The closest English equivalent to the form
"ichchhantaH" is the "adjectival use of the present
participle".
For the exactitude-loving English scholars amongst us:
This is ABSOLUTELY NOT the gerund.
Furthermore, in sa.nskR^ita, it CANNOT be used to form
a continuous tense as with English.
The boy is running --
WRONG mAnavako dhAvan asti WRONG
See the running boy.
CORRECT dhAvantaM mANavakaM pashya CORRECT
This form can be made into active or passive
constructions:
To be explicitly clear: Active/passive is NOT a
distinction between parasmai/Atmane. For ubhayapadI
verbs either has the active form pachat/pachamAna have
APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
odanam pachamAnaM purushham pashya |
oda pachantaM purushham pashya |
Both approximately mean
"See the man cooking rice."
The only difference is that "pachamAna" implies that
the man is cooking the rice for himself, "pachat"
implies that the man is cooking the rice for someone
else to eat.
Now for active/passive examples:
ichchhat - (active) coordinates (i.e., has the same
case forms as) the DESIRER
e.g., moxam ichchhantaM manushhyaM pAti devaH |
God saves the man desiring salvation.
ishhyamANa (same verb, passive form) coordinates with
the DESIRED OBJECT
e.g., ishhyamANaM moxaM labhate sAdhvI |
The saintly woman gets the desired salvation.
NOTE: passives are always declined in Atmanepada, the
termination being -(m)Ana, in place of -at
The parallelism is more obvious with AtmanepadI verbs:
labhamAna - (active)
labhyamAna - (passive)
bhixAM labhamAnaM bhixuM pashyAmi |
I see the beggar receiving alms.
bhixvA labhyamAnAM bhixAM pashyAmi |
I see the alms received by the beggar.
-------------------------------------
As far as possible, please avoid trying to fit
Sanskrit usages into the uncomfortable boxes of
"adjective", etc.
Also, unless you are EXTREMELY SURE of the idiomatic
usage, avoid using these forms ending in -at and -Ana
in the prathamA vibhakti.
Dhananjay
> I have noticed that sometimes verbs are declined,
> such as the word "icchantah" in Bhag. Gita 8.11.
> What effect does this have on the verb? Does it
> become a passive, or maybe an adj.? I've noticed
> this often and can't find anything on it in my
> text books.
> ... David Mitchell
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:52:00 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28
To: G?rard Huet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
This site is really nice.
How do you say whether a verb form is Atmane or parasmai padi?
- Sai.
G?rard Huet uvaacha:
> Here is how to recognize such forms with my lemmatizer, accessible at
> URL
> http://sanskrit.inria.fr/DICO/index.html#stemmer
> You enter the form icchantas (or equivalently icchanta.h) and you
> press the button "Part" (guessing
> that it is a participle). Then press Search, and the system will
> return all possible morphological
> taggings in this lexical category. Here it finds two, corresponding
> to the nominative and vocative
> plural of the masculine present participle of root "i.s#1" (there are
> two "i.s" roots). Actually
> "i.s#1" is a link to the corresponding entry in the lexicon, where
> you can check its meaning (given in
> French - souhaiter = eng. to wish). This entry has a grammatical mark
> [6], meaning 6th present class.
> The red 6 is itself a link to a conjugation engine which will give
> you all forms of this root.
> First you have the finite tensed forms, then participles. You will
> find the present active participle
> "icchat" given with gender marks m. and n. (f. for feminine
> icchantii). Again the "m." mark is a
> link to the declensions of the masculine forms of this participle,
> which you may press to check
> that "icchantas" indeed appears as a plural form in the vocative and
> nominative - you thus have
> gone full circle in the grammar, going in the generation direction
> rather than the analysis one.
> Beware: the lemmatizer recognizes only root forms, and thus preverbs
> have to be removed from verbs.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 14:23:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jay Vaidya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] icchantaH etc. erratum
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Erratum:
oda*naM* pachantaM purushham pashya |
There are also some typos ("grammo"s) in the English
e.g.,
For ubhayapadI verbs either has the active form
pachat/pachamAna have APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
should be:
For ubhayapadI verbs, either active form
pachat/pachamAna *has* APPROXIMATELY the same meaning.
I hope none of the typos actually distort the meaning.
Jay
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2005 16:08:50 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] kALidAsa daSaSlokI - quiz 3 of 13
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
mitrANi,
Due to other preoccupations, I had stopped kALidAsa daSaSloki quiz
for a long time. I'd like to resume it. I post Sloka 3 below.
I request more people to participate. There are several advantages to
trying it out:
The poem is so beautiful yet difficult. Attempting to
understand even bits and pieces of it gives great satisfaction. Also,
while analysing it, you'll get to read it so many times
that its rhythm will be permanently registered in your mind.
And your vocabulary improves as you consult dictionaries.
What more can you ask for? You can listen to it online:
http://surasa.net/music/madugula/devi/
I request Sri D.H.Rao to send me his authoritative meanings for
comparison. As he suggested, let us do a full stanza at a time for
coherence.
Send your answers to me. I'll post all answers on tuesday Aug 2.
Sloka 3 of 13: (meanings and gist due by end of next monday, Aug 1, 2005).
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's Sri D.H.Rao's version:
yaa aliibhir aatma tanutaa aliina kR^it priyaka paaliiSu khelati bhava
vyaalii nakuli+asita cuulii bharaa caraNa dhuulii lasat+muni gaNaa |
yaa aalii bhR^iti shravasi taalii dalam vahati yaa aliika shobhi tilakaa
saa aalii karotu mama kaalii mana sva pada naaliika sevana vidhau || 3
However, the first and third lines are different in the version sung by
Sri Madugula:
aaliibhir aapta tanuraalI lasat kriya kapoLiiSu khelati bhava
aalii bhR^ita shravasi taalii dalam vahati yaa+aliika shobhi tilakaa
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 10:50:03 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] daSaSlokI stuti - Sloka 2.2 meanings
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=unknown-8bit
Here are the meanings of:
> niipaalayaa surabhidhuupaalakaa duritakuupaaduda.ncayatu maam
> ruupaadhikaa shikharibhuupaala va.mshamaNidiipaayitaa bhagavatii || 2
by Ambujam Raman and D.H.Rao.
Regarding Ambujam's esoteric interpretation, I have two questions.
Is there justification in pANini grammar for making words by taking the
first akshara of different words?
Can you create a new word like this:
pakhaava = pachati + khAdati + vamanam karoti?
(I just made it up to make a point.. no such word exists)
I heard something like this for hR^idaya also.
hR^idaya = harati + dadAti + yA... (forgot what)
I always wonder.
Also,
> ruupaadhikaa = one who has great beauty
> ru (fear) upaadhi (deception or false understanding) ka (taddhita affix
> showing diminution (+Taap (feminine affix)) = one who belittles
I haven't seen 'ka' used in this sense. Can somebody comment?
- Sai.
From: "Ambujam Raman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Sai" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] quiz 2.2 - kALidAsa daSaSlokI stutiH
> Here it is.
>
> niipaalayaa surabhidhuupaalakaa duritakuupaaduda.ncayatu maam
> ruupaadhikaa shikharibhuupaala va.mshamaNidiipaayitaa bhagavatii || 2
>
> bhagavatii = Hey durge!
>
> niipaalayaa = niipaH aalayam (aa liiyate asmin) yasyaaH saa= one whose
> abode is the kadamba tree
> or esoterically,
> nayati (leads) paati(protects or defends) ca layati (fuses or absorbs
> (into herself)) iti niipaalayaa = One who leads (those afflicted (referred
> to in the previous line)), protects and finally absorbs into herself
>
> surabhidhuupaalakaa = surabhi dhuupena (sugandhita) alakam yasyaaH saa =
> one who has tresses pefumed with the fragrant smokes
> or esoterrically
> surabhi (kaamadhenu) dhur (foremost (at end of compounds becomes dhuu))
> iva paalakaa = one who protects (the aforementioned afflicted) like the
> foremost kaamadhenu (i.e., fulfilling all desires)
>
> ruupaadhikaa = one who has great beauty
> or esoterically,
> ru (fear) upaadhi (deception or false understanding) ka (taddhita affix
> showing diminution (+Taap (feminine affix)) = one who belittles
> (eradicates) the (false) fear and misunderstanding (of vedas) (of her
> devotees).
>
> shikharibhuupaala = king of the mountains (Himavaan)
>
> va.mshamaNidiipaayitaa = one who is the jewel light of the clan
> ( I have difficulty grammatically justifying the expression 'diipaayita'
> (is this a naamadhatu?). Somebody please help!)
>
> duritakuupaat = from the well of sins (or calamities)
>
> uda.ncayatu = lift up
>
> maam = me
>
> Meaning clear
>
> rAmaH
>
>
>
From: Desiraju Hanumanta Rao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: dasha shloki 2 [partly]
Sai - you may see this for whatever usefulness it has. I am not participating
in quiz because I hold pukka translations of this. So I will be helping you
back scene, if need be.
2. dvaipaayana= bipeds / Sage-Poet Vyasa;
prabhR^iti= alike living beings / sages;
shaapa= curse; aayudha= weaponry;
tridiva= heavens; sopaana= stairway;
dhuuli= dust; caraNaa= feet;
paapa= sin; apaha= remover;
sva= your own; manu= music / hymn; jaapaa= chanting;
anuliina= concerning; jana= peoples;
taapa= fervid; apanoda= obliterating;
nipuNaa= expert;
niipa= Kadamba trees, [Nauclea orientalis];
aalayaa= housed in;
surabhi= Spring season, vasanta / dried resin of bdellium, a fragrant
substance;
dhuupa= incense; alakaa= hair;
durita= impure; kuupaat= abyss;
udancayatu= rise; maam= me;
ruupa= in aspect; adhikaa= by far;
shikhari= mountainous; bhuu+paala= earth, ruling;
vamsha= dysnasty; maNi= gemlike;
diipaayitaa= illuminative; bhaga+vatii= divineness, oh, lady you have.
2 O! Mother, you let bipeds and suchlike tread, you have cursing
weaponry, stairway to heavens is filled with the dust of your feet,
sin-remover is your own music / your name-hymn chant, an expert
obliterator of the fervid of the people concerning in you, housed in
--- [not finished....]
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 12:03:47 -0500
From: Ramanathan Jambunathan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Re: sanskrit Digest, Vol 28, Issue 28
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Jul 25, 2005, at 1:01 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Regarding passive voice (karmaNi prayoga) and atmanepada, where is the
> confusion? Did you find a word which is the same in its
> atmanepada and passive voice forms?
> budhyate (passive) = is taught
> bodhayati (parasmai) = teaches
> don't know the atmane form of budh.
>
> bhavAn vandyate (passive) = you are saluted
> aham vande (atmane) = I salute
> - Sai.
>
>
Hi,
I am trying to summarize my understanding of causative forms and
could be totally off. Please correct me.
budh( to know, to be awake, enlighten) is 4A. It becomes bodhay by
the addition of 'I' directly to the root which is usually strengthened
to 'ay' ( unedr Nijanta or preraka - to form a causative) like gam
becoming gamay (cause to go). These use parasmaipada endings in
kartIR prayoga. In karmani prayoga the causative sign 'ay' is
changed to 'ya' which is added to the strengthened root and
Atmanepada endings are used.
So we have bodhayati - parasmai in kartIR.
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