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Today's Topics:
1. Re: knotty shlokas (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
2. Fwd: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit (P.K.Ramakrishnan)
3. Re: Fwd: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit (Sai)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2005 22:11:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] knotty shlokas
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], sanskrit digest
<sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Knotty shloka 1.
I had this shloka in a Sanskrit Text Book when I was in the 9th Standard. The
Sanslrit Pandit explained the meaning as follows.
maaghamaase gavaamiva is to be read as maaghamaa segavaamiva.
maaghamaa means the infant crab. segavaa means the mother crab.
It is generally knwon that at the time of birth the infant crab pierces the
body of the mother crab and comes out. In this process the mother crab gets
killed.
Now I have conducted a search through the net. These are my findings.
A crab has the following paryayas. (MW)
1. apatyasatru - One who has its progeny as its foe.
2. mrityusuti - One who dies at the time of delivery.
These confirm the contention of my Sanskrit Pandit.
But the meaning which I get from Apte and MW does not fit in properly.
It is given thus.
maaghavaa - a female crab.
segava (masculine) - a young crab.
The female mother crab does not trouble the young crab, it is the other way.
Also segava being masculine the word segavaam should be segavam. Then the sloka
should have been segavaa(H) maaghavaamiva, cchindanti being plural. Then the
knottyness disappears. The knot is from maahgamaase.
Probably both Apte and MW were perhaps not aware of this shloka in the
Mahabharata.
Comments are welcome.
PKR
Divya Jhingran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Sai,
The Kesari Ganguly translation of this verse is as follows:
These (arrows) are not Sikhandin's--these that cut me to the quick like the
cold of winter cutting cows to the quick.
On 9/12/05, Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > arjunasya ime baaNaaH neme baaNaah
shikhandinaH /
> Cchindanti mama gaatraaNi maaghamaase gavaamiva //
The granthi (knot) is obviously the upamAnam (simili) used.
Let me try....
Bhishma is saying...
ime bANAH = These arrows
arjunasya, na shikhaNDinaH = are Arjuna's, not SikhanDi's.
cchindanti mama gaatraaNi = they are tearing by limbs
maaghamaase gavaam iva = like the sun's rays in the month of February
when heat starts rising, but is not much.
doesn't make much sense because arjuna's arrows are supposed to
be much more painful.
Another meaning (my imagination running really wild now :-)
magha = gift, present
gavaam iva = cows
maaghamaase = in the gift-giving season
Does it mean that cows that got gifted recently will be very violent
because they are not used to their new master?
- Sai.
P.K.Ramakrishnan uvaacha:
> 1.
> barhi barhiNvaajaanaaM barhiNaaM barhiNaamiva /
> patataam patataam ghoshaH patataam patataamiva //
>
> 2.
> arjunasya ime baaNaaH neme baaNaah shikhandinaH /
> Cchindanti mama gaatraaNi maaghamaase gavaamiva //
>
> Request members to give the meaning of the above.
>
> Sorry I have not put this in Sanskrit.
>
> Regards.
>
> PKRamakrishnan
>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:48:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Sanskrit] Fwd: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit
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From: subbu shankar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit
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Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 11:18:07 -0600
From: Sai <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Sanskrit] Fwd: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit
To: "P.K.Ramakrishnan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: sanskrit digest <sanskrit@cs.utah.edu>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
eShaH charchA-viShayaH indology, na tu samskR^ita vA~NgmayaH.
ataH eShA charchA asmAkam goShThyaam asambaddhA iti manye |
kR^ipayA etAm charchAm Angla-bhAShAyAm mA anuvartayantu |
yadi utsukAH santi tarhi samskR^ite anuvartayantu,
athavA abhiprAyAn "Indiancivilization" yahoo group madhye
prakaTi kurvantu, na atra |
This topic properly belongs to the field of indology, and is not
relevant to this mailing list which focuses only on sanskrit literature
and learning.
So either continue your discussion in the sanskrit language, or
express your views in the yahoo group "[EMAIL PROTECTED]",
NOT HERE.
- Sai.
P.K.Ramakrishnan uvaacha:
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! for Good
> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> From: subbu shankar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 08:14:00 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [IndianCivilization] Sanskrit
>
> All
>
> I found this article in Dalitstan.org. I know the website contents are of
> dubious nature, but still wanted to check if there is any element of truth in
> this article.
>
> Regards
> Shankar
>
>
> http://www.dalitstan.org/books/a_sans/a_sans1.html
>
>
>
> Non-Existsnce of Sanskrit Before 500 BC
> The prime fact which has been suppressed by the Anglo-Brahmin elite is that
> Sanskrit did not exist prior to the 6th century BC. This circumstance is
> evident from the following points :
> Vedas - The word `Sanskrit' does not occur anywhere in the Vedas. Not a
> single verse mentions this word as denoting a language.
> Chandasa - The Vedic language was referred to as Chandasa even by Panini
> himself [ Chatt., p.63 ], and not as `Sanskrit'.
> Buddha - The Buddha was advised to translate his teachings into the learned
> man's tongue - the `Chandasa' standard [ Chatt., p.64 ], there is no mention
> of any `Sanskrit'. The Buddha refused, preferring the Prakrits. There is not
> even a single reference in any contemporary Buddhist texts to the word
> `Sanskrit'. This shows that Sanskrit did not even exist at the time of the
> Buddha and that the people at that period, even the Brahmins themselves, were
> not aware of themselves as speaking `Sanskrit'; they referred to their
> language as `Chandasa'.
> Ramayana - The word `Sanskrit' occurs for the first time as referring to a
> language in the Ramayana :
> "In the latter [Ramayana] the term `samskrta' "formal, polished", is
> encountered, probably for the first time with reference to the language"
> -- [ EB 22 `Langs', p.616 ]
> It is to be noted that extant versions of the Ramayana date only to the
> centuries AD.
>
> Asokan Script - The first inscriptions in Indian history are in Prakrit and
> not in Sanskrit. These are by the Mauryan King Ashoka (c.273 BC - 232 BC ),
> and number over 30. They date to the 4th century BC. The script utilised is
> not `sacred' Devanagari, and the language is not `Mother' Sanskrit. They are
> mostly in the Brahmi script, while 2 inscriptions are in Kharoshtri. They are
> in various Prakrits and some in Afghanistan are in Greek and Aramaic [ Bas,.
> p.390-1 ]. In fact all inscriptions in India were in Prakrit till the early
> centuries AD :
> "[T]he earlier inscriptions up to the 1st century AD, were all in Prakrit"
> -- [ Up., p.164 ]
> Satavahana Inscriptions - The Satavahanas, the first historical dynasty of
> the Deccan, also used a Prakrit language. There is no usage of Sanskrit. The
> Nagarjunikonda insrciptions are by the Satvahana king Vijaya Satakarni in the
> early 3rd cetnruy AD & end with the Ikshvaku Rudrapurusadatta who ruled for
> 11 years in the second quarter of the 4th century. Most of the large number
> of inscriptions are in Prakrit and only a few belonging to Ehuvulu Santamula
> are in Sanskrit (he ruled during the last 24 years of the 3rd to the early
> 4th century AD ) but even most of his inscriptions are in Prakrit and those
> which are in Sasnkrit are heavily influenced by Prakrit [ Bhatt., p.408
> ftn.46 ].
> The Nanaghat cave inscriptions in Poona distt. are in Prakrit and are the
> work of the Satavahana Satakarni I. They have been dated to the first half of
> the 1st century BC. The contemporary relgiion of this region was Vedic. Indra
> and Vasudev are mentioned as the Vedic gods then worshipped [ Bas, p.395 ].
> The later cave inscriptions of Nasik in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD are in
> the local Prakrit [ Bas, p.395 ]. Thus, although the Vedic religion was
> followed in the Satavahana regions, Sanksrit was not in use.
>
> Gandhari - Even Gandhari existed prior to Sanskrit. The Pali Dhammapada in
> Gandhari was discovered at Khotan in Kharoshtri script. It dates to the 1st
> or 2nd century AD. A Gandhari insrcription was discovered on a copper casket
> containing relics of the Lord Sakyamuni [ Bas, p.393 ].
>
> Kharavela's Kalinga Inscription - Kharavela's Kalingan inscription of the 1st
> century BC were in a Prakrit of the east indian type. Interseting is the
> first mention of the word Bharatavarsha in an inscription. Kharavela is
> described as invading Bharatavarsha, which then evidently denoted only North
> India [ Bas, p.393 ].
> First Sanskrit Inscription : 150 AD - The earliest inscription in Sanskrit is
> by the Saka Mahakshatrapa Rudradaman at Junagarh in Gujarat dated to AD 150.
> However, even here several of the words are wrong according to Sanskrit
> grammatical rules, some words show Prakrit influence and a few are
> un-Paninian [ Bas 397-8 ]. This inscription is several centuries later than
> the earliest Prakrit inscriptions, and are the creation of Sakas, not Arya
> kings.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
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