Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 02:50:12PM -0300, Andre N Batista wrote: > > But if what you need is authority arguing for authority, instead of > useless user words, well that's what's happening here: > > https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00061.html > > If you were able to read beyond the spell they cast, you would maybe > understand that spelling is not the purpose of language and would've > been glad with the lesson Joel taught right down. ?? https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00111.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00145.html https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00157.html -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141019050032.GG19125@tal
Re: All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 19:53:38 -0700 (PDT) Rusi Mody wrote: > On Saturday, October 18, 2014 11:40:01 PM UTC+5:30, Nate Bargmann > wrote: > > No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up > > front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my > > laptop running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager > > suspend nor hibernate are available any more unless I install the > > policykit-1 package recommended by the upower package which depends > > on libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also > > installs the systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't > > run as PID 1. > > Just a heads up. > xfce on jessie with systemd > > A couple of weeks ago in trying to get round some dependency issues > I needed to install policykit that did: > > libpolkit-agent-1-0 (0.105-6.1) > libpolkit-backend-1-0 (0.105-6.1) > policykit-1 (0.105-6.1) > > After that direct poweroff from the xfce panel has stopped working > ie whether I choose logout or shutdown, it only logs out, ie closes > startx and puts me back in console shell. > > [Oh and BTW about 6 months or so back gdm stopped working and Ive > switched to startx > ] There's a certain irony. First, IMHO startx is better than booting directly to GUI. Secondly, now that stopping X gets you to the command prompt, you can type whatever shutdown/reboot/poweroff command you want. Unless those were messed up too. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141019002453.34efc...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
On Saturday, October 18, 2014 11:40:01 PM UTC+5:30, Nate Bargmann wrote: > No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up > front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my laptop > running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager suspend nor > hibernate are available any more unless I install the policykit-1 > package recommended by the upower package which depends on > libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also installs the > systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't run as PID 1. Just a heads up. xfce on jessie with systemd A couple of weeks ago in trying to get round some dependency issues I needed to install policykit that did: libpolkit-agent-1-0 (0.105-6.1) libpolkit-backend-1-0 (0.105-6.1) policykit-1 (0.105-6.1) After that direct poweroff from the xfce panel has stopped working ie whether I choose logout or shutdown, it only logs out, ie closes startx and puts me back in console shell. [Oh and BTW about 6 months or so back gdm stopped working and Ive switched to startx ] -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/698e102e-2d11-43a0-80ce-d7b7fc390...@googlegroups.com
Re: [exim4] rewrite left hand of email on outgoing mail
Jonathan Dowland writes: > My sympathies, I don't think it's an obvious location (ie outside of > /etc/exim4) and I recall feeling similar when I eventually stumbled > over it. > >> On 18 Oct 2014, at 00:52, Harry Putnam wrote: >> >> So, I just insert things the way I want them... and restart exim4? > > Yes but I don't think the restart is needed. > >> >> Do I need to use both of the forms that may occur for my user? > > Yes. Well that did it... thanks for your time and patience. Now if I can just set things so that this host can accept mail from the rest of the lan and relay it to my smarthost. But before I create some openended monster spam hole... Is that just a matter of inserting the networks who's mail you want to relay? I mean in /etc/exim4/update-exim4.conf.conf: dc_relay_nets='10.0.0.0/24;192.168.2.0/24' Those are the two networks making up my home lan. Or is there some more specific/explicit way to tell exim to relay for them? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87d29odgf0@reader.local.lan
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 19/10/14 02:29, Peter Nieman wrote: > On 18/10/14 13:49, Scott Ferguson wrote: >> On 18/10/14 23:28, Peter Nieman wrote: >>> On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: Why it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. >>> >>> You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask >>> yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, >>> then why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? >>> >>> >> Do you have an answer to your question? >> >> Wild guess - notifications? > > I don't know claws, but I know from Wheezy that many packages depend > on dbus although dbus isn't necessary for doing the job. Please look > here for examples: > https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00843.html How is > dbus necessary for opening a pdf file, for instance? And mail > clients were able to notify users even before dbus was invented. That's a tangent I'll avoid. I'm easily confused so I'll stick to the package being discussed. > Trying to get rid of such dependencies is a good thing, in my humble > opinion. Agreed. Provided I actually understand the why the dependency exists in the first place. That is - when there is an *actual* dependency - as opposed to a *recommendation*. There is a difference. > >> Now my question - why did you remove Brian's question from it's >> context? TIA > > Because I thought it wasn't that relevant for the part I replied to? > We'll have to agree to disagree on that. :) Shifting the claim of having removed a systemd "dependency" to a discussion about dbus doesn't help clarify what the OP's point is - which is what Brian asked. > If you have an issue with that, I apologize. No problems. > Besides, I also have an issue with many people's quoting habits. > Like when they force me to spend my time scrolling. And I don't > understand "TIA", unless it's Spanish. Thanks In Advance. My turn to apologise. It was lazy and unclear. Your problem with people's quoting habits is not unique - I often require a screen reader, and if I have to scroll up and down a post to discern the meaning is a pain. Additionally having to read multiple posts because of selective quoting misapplied (or deliberately done to obscure things e.g. shifting goal posts) even more so. > >> NOTE: He was responding to the, um, claim that removing dbus in >> some unknown way removed a (possible??) systemd *dependency*. > > Well, I thought there was a strong relationship between systemd and > dbus. There's a strong relationship between milk and butter. Make of it what you will. -8<-->8 > By the way, I can't find the word "dependency" that you highlighted > in Steve's post. Those pesky internet pixies! Reco writes: > This page tells otherwise: > https://packages.debian.org/jessie/claws-mail > OK, it's 'libdbus-1-3', not 'dbus' dependency, but libdbus-1-3 > recommends dbus. NOTE: Steve was the OP (who made the unsupported claim that removing a "recommendation" for dbus removed a "dependency" on systemd - using other words, the conflating of "dependency" and "recommends" was Reco's comment - a mistake which could have been made for a number of understandable reasons. > >> I'm all for removing the unnecessary - especially if it's code. >> Generally if it's considered a failing the usual course is to file >> a bug report but I can't seem to find one. All guidance is >> appreciated. > > As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn > the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian, With the greatest respect:- it's not hard - type "reportbug" in a terminal/console and press the Enter key, then follow the prompts. > I don't have the time for filing reports for all the bugs I find, and > I also assume that you'd have to register somehow before being > allowed to bring your reports to the maintainers' attention (as they > don't read users' opinions here), which is something I generally try > to avoid. That statement is wrong on several counts. > And, given the direction in which Debian has moved in the > past few years, I suspect that many of the bugs I'd report would be > considered "features". If this is an unacceptable attitude by your > standards, I apologize once again. I would hope it's unacceptable just about anywhere and I'm astounded that you can't see why. That you feel it's justified, or true, would seem to demand not only contempt for the dds and a large amount of confirmation bias. The former is probably unintentional[*1], the latter a human failing - in combination they just make life harder than it has to be. [*1] the collective noun for uninformed opinion is not fact > I accept that we have different ways of "seeing" Open Source. I lack your ability to know what will or won't happen with bug reports that have not been filed - though I do suspect a bug report demanding the removal of a "recommendation" simply because the program do
Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology
On 10/18/2014 4:41 PM, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:15:16 -0400 > Jerry Stuckle wrote: > > >> >> You obviously don't understand. MX records identify MTAs - that is, >> machines which can receive email. MUAs cannot do that. >> >> To identify an MUA with an MX record would be a violation of the >> domain name system. >> > > And I'm reasonably sure I've never seen *anyone* suggest that an MX > record should point to a host running only an MUA. I don't understand > why you're labouring the point when nobody is arguing with you. > That's EXACTLY what lee was saying. > Nor indeed that an MX record should point to a host running an MTA, > *unless* that MTA was a Mail eXchanger. Every Linux computer I've ever > seen runs an MTA, but in very few of them was the MTA a mail exchanger, > which is what requires a DNS MX record. > No, an A record will also work. > Nobody is arguing over TLAs here, just how you configure the things, > specifically where exim4 on Debian is the MTA, and very specifically > when it is accepting unauthenticated mail on port 25, as practically > every MTA with an MX record does. > And MUAs don't. But lee doesn't seem to understand the difference. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5442e475.7070...@attglobal.net
Re: All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 09:17:48PM +0100, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:44:23 -0500 > Nate Bargmann wrote: > > > No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up > > front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my > > laptop running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager > > suspend nor hibernate are available any more unless I install the > > policykit-1 package recommended by the upower package which depends on > > libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also installs > > the systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't run as PID > > 1. > > > > Has anyone worked out a way to enable suspend in xfce4-power-manager > > without ultimately installing systemd? > > > > > > No, but this sheds a little light elsewhere. About a year ago I was on > LXDE, and suddenly the GUI shutdown and reboot stopped working. I spent > a month or so typing in a password in order to shut down my single-user > workstation, then got fed up with it. There seemed to be no suggestion > as to when it might be fixed, nor any hint that I needed to install > anything else, so I switched to Xfce. > > I've never got suspend, hibernate etc. to stay working properly on sid > for any length of time, and the only non-sid Linux installation I have > is a server, so I don't use them. > No, but the last time I've tried to say that and quote Slav, who claimed similar problem, my message did not reach the list. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Openbox systemd-free
Hi. On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 16:25:12 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > Nice! > > This was exactly the kind of stuff I've been looking for. I'll probably > ask you more about it later. > > One look at /etc/wpa_supplicant/functions.sh tells me that > wpa_supplicant is a daemon that's begging to be managed by daemontools > instead of the unfathomable shellscripts it's now managed by. Why would you need always-running wpa_supplicant? The whole point of /etc/wpa_supplicant/functions.sh is to write something like in interfaces(5): iface wlan0 inet manual wpa-roam /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf and to start and stop wpa_supplicant with ifup and ifdown. > I spoze > one could also make a point for managing it with systemd, but I can't > afford the price of that ticket. The beauty of so called 'Roaming Mode' (see README.Debian) is complete independence of implementation of init. As long as init allows ifup and ifdown, of course. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141019010401.272930e8b265c16d64f61...@gmail.com
Re: Lots of updates? OK?
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 09:46:38PM +0100, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:18:21 -0700 > Ross Boylan wrote: > > > My wheezy system shows 34 packages updated since I last checked, which > > I think was yesterday. Is this legitimate? I got a security warning > > about the keys when I first checked, but that went away after I did > > another aptitude update. I haven't installed any of the new packages > > yet. > > > > The update seems to include a point release (at least base-files > > changes) and a new linux kernel. I see some security advisories, > > including the version bump for iceweasel, but nothing about, for > > example, the kernel. And the debian web site says the last point > > release was in July. > > > > Subscribe to the debian-security list, and you will get emails like > this, which arrived today: https://lists.debian.org/debian-security/2014/10/msg00043.html > On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 20:12 +0100, Adam D. Barratt wrote: > > The next point release for "wheezy" (7.7) is scheduled for Saturday, > > October 18th. Stable NEW will be frozen during the preceding > > weekend. > > The archive side of the point release has now finished, and a mirror > update is running, so packages should start appearing on mirrors in the > next couple of hours or so. > > Regards, > > Adam signature.asc Description: Digital signature
"kworker" writes to disc every 5 seconds on battery
Hello! I have noticed that my current setup of Chrome writes to disc every second. While hunting for the problem, I have found an old bug report on Google Code about this, and from my tests I concluded my solution for now would be to run Chrome with its profile and cache in a tmpfs. Problem solved, or rather, not solved at all. In a laptop running on battery, it would be desirable to let the HD spin down a bit sometimes, right, right, right? Well, I think so, so after optimizing the settings for some applications, I have found these two spoiled brats who write to the disc frequently, and never let it sleep: jbd2/sda3-8 and kworker/u8:0. The jbd2/sda3-8 problem seems to have been solved by remounting the partition with commit=60, so no more journal writes every five seconds. But what about this kworker/u8:0 lad? Who is he, and what is he doing? I know it is a kernel worker, but not more than this. After some search, I found someone saying I should run: `echo l | sudo tee /proc/sysrq-trigger', which outputs some nice information, but which I could not understand. So I have asked my mother, because she was the person who taught me how to walk, if she could read it, and was left puzzled as to how there could be something even our ancestors couldn't understand. Is there a way for me to know what is kworker/u8:0 writing to the disc every five seconds? Also, if it's not a bother, could someone test if this also happens there? The commands I run while on battery were: echo 1 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/block_dump tail -F /var/log/debug | grep -v dirtied echo 0 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/block_dump And by the way, my kernel is 3.15.10-zen-686-pae Thank you! Teresa e Junior -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5442d1dc.5040...@gmail.com
Re: Lots of updates? OK?
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 13:18:21 -0700 Ross Boylan wrote: > My wheezy system shows 34 packages updated since I last checked, which > I think was yesterday. Is this legitimate? I got a security warning > about the keys when I first checked, but that went away after I did > another aptitude update. I haven't installed any of the new packages > yet. > > The update seems to include a point release (at least base-files > changes) and a new linux kernel. I see some security advisories, > including the version bump for iceweasel, but nothing about, for > example, the kernel. And the debian web site says the last point > release was in July. > Subscribe to the debian-security list, and you will get emails like this, which arrived today: On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 20:12 +0100, Adam D. Barratt wrote: > The next point release for "wheezy" (7.7) is scheduled for Saturday, > October 18th. Stable NEW will be frozen during the preceding > weekend. The archive side of the point release has now finished, and a mirror update is running, so packages should start appearing on mirrors in the next couple of hours or so. Regards, Adam -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018214638.5f637...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Steve Litt writes: > The process, the questions it asked, and the automatic collection of > my computer's configuration made submitting the bug trivial. *Every* > project should have one of these. Unfortunately as soon as you mention email their ears close up. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87ppdphzuo@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Openbox systemd-free
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 20:20:29 +0100 Keith Peter wrote: > Hello > > On my Jessie laptop with sysvinit, X and IceWM updated to today > installing wicd with --no-install-recommends brings dbus, > wpasupplicant and wireless-tools with it. > > So I just use wpasupplicant in roaming mode with wpa-gtk as I need > basically wifi in four locations. Not bothering with wicd itself. > > Cheers Nice! This was exactly the kind of stuff I've been looking for. I'll probably ask you more about it later. One look at /etc/wpa_supplicant/functions.sh tells me that wpa_supplicant is a daemon that's begging to be managed by daemontools instead of the unfathomable shellscripts it's now managed by. I spoze one could also make a point for managing it with systemd, but I can't afford the price of that ticket. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018162512.7c123...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 15:15:16 -0400 Jerry Stuckle wrote: > > You obviously don't understand. MX records identify MTAs - that is, > machines which can receive email. MUAs cannot do that. > > To identify an MUA with an MX record would be a violation of the > domain name system. > And I'm reasonably sure I've never seen *anyone* suggest that an MX record should point to a host running only an MUA. I don't understand why you're labouring the point when nobody is arguing with you. Nor indeed that an MX record should point to a host running an MTA, *unless* that MTA was a Mail eXchanger. Every Linux computer I've ever seen runs an MTA, but in very few of them was the MTA a mail exchanger, which is what requires a DNS MX record. Nobody is arguing over TLAs here, just how you configure the things, specifically where exim4 on Debian is the MTA, and very specifically when it is accepting unauthenticated mail on port 25, as practically every MTA with an MX record does. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018214148.4982b...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:44:23 -0500 Nate Bargmann wrote: > No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up > front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my > laptop running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager > suspend nor hibernate are available any more unless I install the > policykit-1 package recommended by the upower package which depends on > libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also installs > the systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't run as PID > 1. > > Has anyone worked out a way to enable suspend in xfce4-power-manager > without ultimately installing systemd? > > No, but this sheds a little light elsewhere. About a year ago I was on LXDE, and suddenly the GUI shutdown and reboot stopped working. I spent a month or so typing in a password in order to shut down my single-user workstation, then got fed up with it. There seemed to be no suggestion as to when it might be fixed, nor any hint that I needed to install anything else, so I switched to Xfce. I've never got suspend, hibernate etc. to stay working properly on sid for any length of time, and the only non-sid Linux installation I have is a server, so I don't use them. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018211748.1a0bf...@jresid.jretrading.com
Lots of updates? OK?
My wheezy system shows 34 packages updated since I last checked, which I think was yesterday. Is this legitimate? I got a security warning about the keys when I first checked, but that went away after I did another aptitude update. I haven't installed any of the new packages yet. The update seems to include a point release (at least base-files changes) and a new linux kernel. I see some security advisories, including the version bump for iceweasel, but nothing about, for example, the kernel. And the debian web site says the last point release was in July. Ross Boylan -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/cak3ntrblgejdgjnp1k29hzretxummt3ntkpsnjxmhmvzmzd...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:30:27 +0100 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > > > Le 18.10.2014 16:14, Brian a écrit : > > Which once again raises the main question; what does systemd have > > to do > > with this? The original post gives an unexplained solution to a > > non-existent problem. > > Dbus is (a crap, but not only) a tool to allow applications to share > informations with other applications (why should those apps to do so, > is often a mistery for me. Hi berenger.morel, I think you and I have the same basic beliefs about software. Enabling applications to permiscuously talk to each other, to broadcast their business to everybody else and to listen to (and presumably take action depending upon) everybody else's broadcasts, greatly reduces repairability of the system. I'm a huge believer in modularity, and one of my definitions of modularity is that module A knows the business of module B **only** to the extent it needs to know B's business in order to function. In most cases, the need is zero. POSIX gives two modules many, many ways to communicate: Files, piping, fifos, sockets, heck, I've probably missed five or ten. If both modules know they'll need to communicate, it's a snap. If one knows, it can be built with a fifo interface, like mplayer. Or a socket interface. > Especially why should them have to do that > in XML...). I guess that's so they can pass huge, arbitrary data in dbus. My thought when contemplating that is "what could *possibly* go wrong?" [clip] > > Now, how softwares did before was maybe a nightmare. Doing the wheel > everytime, in different fashion, etc. Later today I'm writing a whole page on reinventing the wheel. Unless the wheel you need is very similar to the wheel already invented, reinventing is simpler, and produces a much smaller and robust design, than trying to strongarm somebody else's wheel into your needs. > The other reliable technique I know is through window managers, by > setting a flag (I do not know how it's named, I only know about this > technique because some softwares uses it... like, for example, > claws.) which, depending on the WM, will result in a visual and or > audio hint. Those visual and audio hints are one of the few things that most programs might need to write to. They need a predefined standard to write to, and I guess dbus is the standard being used. If I were in charge of standards, I might have used something simpler (like a fifo with a very simple data definition) exclusively for notifications (the official visual and audio hints), but hey, that's just me. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018161009.4652b...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 19:19:26 +0200 Sven Hartge wrote: > berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > > > I guess that claws uses (lib)dbus to notify dbus-compliant > > softwares that there is a new mail. > > Also claws might get a signal from (for example) network-manager if > there is a connection available to toggle its offline/online mode to > avoid unnecessary tries to connect to the mailserver while offline. > > Or to change to polling rate if the device is on battery to conserve > power. > > There are many reasons why a software might want to communicate things > to other running applications and the standard way of doing so has > become Dbus. Here's the official answer as to how Claws uses dbus: === On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 12:15:34 -0500 »Q« wrote: > I don't use networkmanager and I don't use any local MTA. Does C-M > use dbus for anything else? Avant Window Navigator support, and the experimental new address book, which is not packaged, and disabled by default. with regards Paul === Reading the preceding, it looks to me like it's used for some fairly arcane enhancements to the basics of Claws-Mail. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018153409.6bff9...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Openbox systemd-free
On 17 October 2014 13:02, Pete Orrall wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Steve Litt wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> The first task of my project is done. Openbox is systemd-free, and is >> intended to be systemd free. So that will form the GUI foundation. I'll >> come back in the next few days with some systemd-free panels that go >> well with Openbox, as well as a lock program. > > > Steve, > > I use Openbox as my primary wm, along with the following tools for > added functionality: > > tint2 - highly configurable taskbar > nitrogen - wallpaper manager > obconf - Openbox config tool > obmenu - graphical Python app to manage the Openbox menu instead of the XML > file > openbox-themes - more themes > xscreensaver - Create an obmenu entry to lock your system with the > following command: xscreensaver-command -lock > > I created an autostart.sh file in my ~/.config/openbox directory which > starts tint2, nitrogen, and xscreensaver upon login. Both tint2 and > nitrogen need their config files tweaked after installing the > packages. If you'd like, I can send you mine. > >> So far my research is telling me that wicd command line is systemd free >> (if anyone knows to the contrary, please let me know), so I'll probably >> put a small front end on wicd. > > There is a GTK front end package called wicd-gtk. Other wicd front > ends exist too: > > https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=jessie&searchon=names&keywords=wicd > > -- > Pete Orrall > p...@cs1x.com > www.peteorrall.com > "If there isn't a way, I'll make one." > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org > Archive: > https://lists.debian.org/CAB43J+L4hKUrpPC3=7dmyrykxusubnuf9yofuazsamw0lvi...@mail.gmail.com > Hello On my Jessie laptop with sysvinit, X and IceWM updated to today installing wicd with --no-install-recommends brings dbus, wpasupplicant and wireless-tools with it. So I just use wpasupplicant in roaming mode with wpa-gtk as I need basically wifi in four locations. Not bothering with wicd itself. Cheers -- Keith Burnett http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/ -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/CAA6tw_FcFVEUHP8tEHV1egJTXQiPB4VA32Pz6rQ8=ndbpa8...@mail.gmail.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 17:16:04 +0100 berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > Le 18.10.2014 16:29, Peter Nieman a écrit : > > As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn > > the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian > > Just run bugreport (or is it reportbug? I don't have a Debian > currently, but I'm trying to fix that :p) . It'll ask you several > questions the first time, like, do you want gtk based interface, > what's your level of knowledge, etc. > Then, the normal way it works: > _ asking which package is buggy > _ checking if there are some updates > _ if yes, it asks if the user want to report anyway > _ before letting you send a bug report, it will list the current list > (which is sometimes pretty long, but not always) > _ it asks you if your bug is already there > _ if yes, it will ask you if you want to improve the bug report > _ otherwise, it will ask you to write the report > _ last step, it will ask if you want to be noticed when there are > changes on the report > > Pretty simple imo. Nicely done. And no registration neeeded, which is > really great! (seriously, registering on every damned bug tracker in > the world is a pain. In debian, this problem is well fixed!) Very nice, berenger.morel. Thanks for the info. I just sent a bug I've been working around for several months. Let's see whether it actually got emailed to Debian. The process, the questions it asked, and the automatic collection of my computer's configuration made submitting the bug trivial. *Every* project should have one of these. Thanks so much for telling me about this. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018152900.554cf...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: [exim4] mixed up about terminology
On 10/16/2014 9:25 PM, lee wrote: > Jerry Stuckle writes: > >> On 10/12/2014 10:24 PM, lee wrote: >>> Jerry Stuckle writes: >>> Among other things, legitimate MTAs have MX records. Anti-spam routines >>> >>> Who prevents a MUA from having an MX record and sending a HELO that >>> matches the RDNS entry? And what are these "other things" you're >>> referring to? >>> >>> >> >> An MUA cannot receive email - which is the purpose of the MX record. >> Such an entry would be incorrect in the DNS. > > lol > > The entry isn't related to a MUA in any way. Who prevents you from > using a MUA on a machine the IP address of which is obtained when > requesting the MX entry for a particular domain? > >> But if you understood anything about MTAs, you wouldn't have to ask this >> question. > > Yeah, sure, lol ... > > You obviously don't understand. MX records identify MTAs - that is, machines which can receive email. MUAs cannot do that. To identify an MUA with an MX record would be a violation of the domain name system. Jerry -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5442bc44.2010...@attglobal.net
Re: update tool
On 10/18/2014 05:07 PM, Nemeth Gyorgy wrote: > 2014-10-18 14:24 keltezéssel, Diogene Laerce írta: >>> There are several: apticron, cron-apt, unattended-upgrades and I see >>> update-notifier is being replaced with gnome-packagekit. >> >> I was looking for a portable and simple way to notify the user >> of necessary update. But update-manager is not in Jessy, apticron and >> cron-apt a bit too complicated.. > > I don't know apticron but in cron-apt you should only configure the > destination email address and you can leave any other on the default > setting. I would not say 'too complicated'. I need something simple as True or False answer. >> I guess I'm going to stick with a >> "update && upgrade" script. > > Your choice. My burden.. I know. :) -- “One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.” “Le vrai n'est pas plus sûr que le probable.” Diogene Laerce signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Saturday 18 October 2014 18:50:12 Andre N Batista wrote: > Beside the quotes on top, I've seen you say this same mantra over and > over the past months on your battle to shut down any complaining related > to the rabbit. Your main line has been from the start: devs are so cute, No, devs do the work. And also of course have the say under the constitution. Lisi -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/201410181910.24991.lisi.re...@gmail.com
All roads to suspend/hibernate lead through systemd?
No, this is not a troll (seems like that is necessary to state up front). I have been experimenting with dropping systemd from my laptop running Sid but find that even with xfce4-power-manager suspend nor hibernate are available any more unless I install the policykit-1 package recommended by the upower package which depends on libpam-systemd which, even if I install systemd-shim, also installs the systemd package as a dependency, even though it won't run as PID 1. Has anyone worked out a way to enable suspend in xfce4-power-manager without ultimately installing systemd? - Nate -- "The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true." Ham radio, Linux, bikes, and more: http://www.n0nb.us -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018174423.gl3...@n0nb.us
Re: Cinnamon Desktop environment
Jonathan Dowland writes: > Did you not see Lisi's answer to the last time you asked this > question? This is an open list. He probably is not subscribed. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87y4sdi7vz@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Cinnamon Desktop environment
Robert Pommrich writes: > Why do you just ask the sirs and not the madams, too? Most likely because he is not a native speaker of english and that was what he was taught to use as a polite form of address. > Is it for the same reason that you are not able or willing to find out > the answer to your simple question just by yourself? Don't attack people for asking questions. BTW why did you include debian-user-digest-requ...@lists.debian.org in your reply? -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/8738aljmiq@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 10:20:25AM +0900, Joel Rees wrote: > On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: > > On Friday 17 October 2014 21:09:59 Dan Ritter wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 07:02:12PM +0100, Lisi Reisz wrote: > >> > On Friday 17 October 2014 18:30:31 Andre N Batista wrote: > >> > > I cannot believe some people still > >> > > thinks [snip] that we should simply stick with despite the typo > >> > > the TC's authority regardless what. > >> > > >> > Surely no-one has ever said that?? References if someone has? > >> > >> Sven Joachim. > >> > >> "Because the people who do the work get to make the decisions, > >> that's the way Debian works." > >> > >> in > >> Message-ID: <8761gow4qv@turtle.gmx.de> > >> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 06:47:52 +0200 > >> In-Reply-To: <87sijspifa@yun.yagibdah.de> > >> > >> > >> and Lisi Reisz: > >> > >> "We can use what we are offered, and be grateful that we are > >> offered it. Thank you springs to mind." > >> > >> in > >> Message-Id: <201409202246.44899.lisi.re...@gmail.com> > >> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 22:46:44 +0100 > >> In-Reply-To: <20140920202015.gc8...@teltox.donarmstrong.com> > >> > >> -dsr- > > > > Neither of those says what you claim. ALL the DDs get to make the decision, > > including those who have now called for a GR. The TC allowed for this > > possibility from the beginning, in lessening the vote required to overturn > > its decision, and it is laid down in the constitution. Beside the quotes on top, I've seen you say this same mantra over and over the past months on your battle to shut down any complaining related to the rabbit. Your main line has been from the start: devs are so cute, thank you and shut up. Do you need me to point here every instance you argued on these lines? But if what you need is authority arguing for authority, instead of useless user words, well that's what's happening here: https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/10/msg00061.html If you were able to read beyond the spell they cast, you would maybe understand that spelling is not the purpose of language and would've been glad with the lesson Joel taught right down. > Much of what happened is what politicians call "nuanced", that is, you > interpret it according to your understanding of the circumstances and > conditions. > > > We were objecting to > > the ad hominem unpleasantness and destruction of the list. > > Let me try to explain (yet again, sorry, but re-wording things > sometimes does help) my point of view and why some of what I have said > should not be considered ad hominem. (Some will say pessimistic, I > won't argue with that, even though I think pessimism is warranted.) > > When I have my engineer's hat on, I do not want to combine the init > process with much of anything else. pid 1 should do the bare minimum. > The way I see it, even sysv-init also does more than it should. > > This is in accordance with engineering principles that are as > integrated into my understanding of software and computer hardware > engineering as my intuitive understanding of gravity is integrated > into the way I dance. > > When I look at systemd, the fundamental design and structure fly in > the face of reason. I'm not trying to be insulting when I say that. > For some of us it really does fly in the face of reason. > > According to what I understand as an engineer, everything that systemd > does beyond the minimum (in other words, beyond being the ultimate > backstop for signals and dying orphaned processes) should be > delegated. Maybe I should say "delegated as much as possible", but > systemd just does way too much. > > When we try to describe what systems do when core processes attempt to > do too much, we have said such things as "chasing its tail", > "thrashing", "wandering away and not coming back" and "recursively > trying to figure out what it was doing when it was trying to figure > out what it was doing". These may sound insulting, but it's an attempt > to describe what is actually happening in the computer when it quits > responding to input. > > There are other, similar issues about the design and structure of > systemd, and listing them all here would tend to sound like a litany, > so I won't this time. > > Some terms that have been used to describe engineers who would try to > put too much into core processes include "arrogant", "prima donna", > and "trying to defy the law of gravity without wings". These terms > were not intended to insult. They were intended to point out that, as > we gained real-world engineering experience, we would tend to quit > doing such things. > > Shoot, we all started out as prima donnas. Hubris, as as been noted despite the typo ^ > before, seems to be an essential part of the attitude required to push > programming projects through to completion. We don't think we are > being condescending when we say we know what it's like to be slapped > in the face by re
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:10:02 PM UTC+5:30, berenge...@neutralite.org wrote: > Le 18.10.2014 16:14, Brian a écrit : > > Which once again raises the main question; what does systemd have to > > do > > with this? The original post gives an unexplained solution to a > > non-existent problem. > Dbus is (a crap, but not only) a tool to allow applications to share > informations with other applications (why should those apps to do so, is > often a mistery for me. Especially why should them have to do that in > XML...). The DBus specification: http://dbus.freedesktop.org/doc/dbus-specification.html first line says: D-Bus is low-overhead because it uses a binary protocol, and does not have to convert to and from a text format such as XML. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/7e8b169d-7579-41a6-b99a-5adc7ec84...@googlegroups.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Great, but that's Gentoo way, we should have made a Gentuish Debian, i.e. port certain portage features into APT, such as easily control build flgas. But then it's needed to keep record of not which packages a package depends on, but which parts of which packages a package depends on, though I'm not sure if it's very important. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018173619.GA4207@debian
Re: Cinnamon Desktop environment
On Sat, Oct 18, 2014 at 10:24:35PM +0530, Nilesh Kumar wrote: > Sir, can you tell whether Cinnamon desktop environment is available in > jessie release or not. Did you not see Lisi's answer to the last time you asked this question? https://lists.debian.org/201410171545.12315.lisi.re...@gmail.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018173403.ga9...@chew.redmars.org
Re: Cinnamon Desktop environment
Why do you just ask the sirs and not the madams, too? Is it for the same reason that you are not able or willing to find out the answer to your simple question just by yourself? On 18 October 2014 18:54:35 CEST, Nilesh Kumar wrote: >Sir, can you tell whether Cinnamon desktop environment is available in >jessie release or not. > >-- >Nilesh Kumar
Re: Good news on claws-mail
berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: > I guess that claws uses (lib)dbus to notify dbus-compliant softwares > that there is a new mail. Also claws might get a signal from (for example) network-manager if there is a connection available to toggle its offline/online mode to avoid unnecessary tries to connect to the mailserver while offline. Or to change to polling rate if the device is on battery to conserve power. There are many reasons why a software might want to communicate things to other running applications and the standard way of doing so has become Dbus. Grüße, Sven. -- Sigmentation fault. Core dumped. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/9b30s649d...@mids.svenhartge.de
Cinnamon Desktop environment
Sir, can you tell whether Cinnamon desktop environment is available in jessie release or not. -- Nilesh Kumar
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 18.10.2014 16:14, Brian a écrit : Which once again raises the main question; what does systemd have to do with this? The original post gives an unexplained solution to a non-existent problem. Dbus is (a crap, but not only) a tool to allow applications to share informations with other applications (why should those apps to do so, is often a mistery for me. Especially why should them have to do that in XML...). I guess that claws uses (lib)dbus to notify dbus-compliant softwares that there is a new mail. Softwares like, for example, notification-daemon (which also depends only on libdbus, but I failed to use it without dbus, I must admit it. Did not spend lot of time on that, anyway, it might be easy.). Now, how softwares did before was maybe a nightmare. Doing the wheel everytime, in different fashion, etc. The other reliable technique I know is through window managers, by setting a flag (I do not know how it's named, I only know about this technique because some softwares uses it... like, for example, claws.) which, depending on the WM, will result in a visual and or audio hint. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/a3fb148d24041344a87dbded873ee...@neutralite.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 18/10/14 16:29, Peter Nieman wrote: And I don't understand "TIA", unless it's Spanish. "Thanks In Advance" Well, I thought there was a strong relationship between systemd and dbus. Various parts of the systemd suite, including the systemd init daemon, use dbus to present its control interfaces. The dbus daemon does not require any of the executables of the systemd suite, though it does link against the library libsystemd which is maintained upstream as part of the systemd suite (and is provided in Debian as part of the 'libsystemd0' package). (Quite a few things that aren't part of the systemd suite and don't require any of the executables of the systemd suite to be installed link against libsystemd.) As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian, It's fairly straightforward: https://www.debian.org/Bugs/Reporting The recommended procedure is to install the 'reportbug' package, then run the 'reportbug' program, *ideally* on the system where you are encountering the bug so that it has the best chance of submitting all the relevant information. (And honestly, if you don't have time to learn the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian, I'm amazed you have the time to read debian-user in its current state.) I don't have the time for filing reports for all the bugs I find, and I also assume that you'd have to register somehow before being allowed to bring your reports to the maintainers' attention There is no registration requirement for reporting bugs in Debian. > (as they don't read users' opinions here), Quite a few Debian package maintainers do, in fact, subscribe to, read, and post the debian-user mailing list. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54429563.3000...@zen.co.uk
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Le 18.10.2014 16:29, Peter Nieman a écrit : As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian Just run bugreport (or is it reportbug? I don't have a Debian currently, but I'm trying to fix that :p) . It'll ask you several questions the first time, like, do you want gtk based interface, what's your level of knowledge, etc. Then, the normal way it works: _ asking which package is buggy _ checking if there are some updates _ if yes, it asks if the user want to report anyway _ before letting you send a bug report, it will list the current list (which is sometimes pretty long, but not always) _ it asks you if your bug is already there _ if yes, it will ask you if you want to improve the bug report _ otherwise, it will ask you to write the report _ last step, it will ask if you want to be noticed when there are changes on the report Pretty simple imo. Nicely done. And no registration neeeded, which is really great! (seriously, registering on every damned bug tracker in the world is a pain. In debian, this problem is well fixed!) -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/26f42cab76ec5f1447bef5a96b448...@neutralite.org
Monitor does not turn on after suspend
I use Wheezy on desktop computer. I use vesa driver for X because radeon is not working. After pm-suspend command, computer is like turned off, when press power button it wakes up, but not monitor and not keyboard. I tried --quirk-dpms-on, but didn't help. I also tried kernel options noapic and irqpoll, but didn't help either. lspci tells my VGA card as: 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Device 6613 Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018155412.GA3463@debian
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 18/10/14 13:49, Scott Ferguson wrote: On 18/10/14 23:28, Peter Nieman wrote: On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: Why it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? Do you have an answer to your question? Wild guess - notifications? I don't know claws, but I know from Wheezy that many packages depend on dbus although dbus isn't necessary for doing the job. Please look here for examples: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2014/09/msg00843.html How is dbus necessary for opening a pdf file, for instance? And mail clients were able to notify users even before dbus was invented. Trying to get rid of such dependencies is a good thing, in my humble opinion. Now my question - why did you remove Brian's question from it's context? TIA Because I thought it wasn't that relevant for the part I replied to? If you have an issue with that, I apologize. Besides, I also have an issue with many people's quoting habits. Like when they force me to spend my time scrolling. And I don't understand "TIA", unless it's Spanish. NOTE: He was responding to the, um, claim that removing dbus in some unknown way removed a (possible??) systemd *dependency*. Well, I thought there was a strong relationship between systemd and dbus. Or are you telling me there is none - neither personnel-wise nor technology-wise? Wasn't it mentioned on this list some time ago that Wheezy machines running dbus would be upgraded to systemd whereas machines not running dbus might have a chance of not being? By the way, I can't find the word "dependency" that you highlighted in Steve's post. I'm all for removing the unnecessary - especially if it's code. Generally if it's considered a failing the usual course is to file a bug report but I can't seem to find one. All guidance is appreciated. As far as I am concerned, I don't have the time right now to learn the officially accepted procedures of filing bug reports in Debian, I don't have the time for filing reports for all the bugs I find, and I also assume that you'd have to register somehow before being allowed to bring your reports to the maintainers' attention (as they don't read users' opinions here), which is something I generally try to avoid. And, given the direction in which Debian has moved in the past few years, I suspect that many of the bugs I'd report would be considered "features". If this is an unacceptable attitude by your standards, I apologize once again. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m1u1hl$51g$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Sun 19 Oct 2014 at 00:05:08 +1100, Scott Ferguson wrote: > On 19/10/14 00:29, Reco wrote: > > Hi. > > > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:24:16 +0100 > > Brian wrote: > > > >> On Sat 18 Oct 2014 at 14:28:26 +0200, Peter Nieman wrote: > >> > >>> On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: > Why > it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. > >>> > >>> You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask > >>> yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then > >>> why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? > >> > >> claws-mail does not depend on dbus. > > > > This page tells otherwise: > > > > https://packages.debian.org/jessie/claws-mail > > > > OK, it's 'libdbus-1-3', not 'dbus' dependency, but libdbus-1-3 > > recommends dbus. > > > > Reco > > > > > I think, based on the words used, Brian means "depends" not "recommends" > i.e.:- > apt-get --no-install-recommends install claws-mail > will install claws-mail (and a host of other files) without libdbus Thank you; that is a possible command I had in mind; there are other ways of going about it but all lead to getting claws-mail without dbus. Which once again raises the main question; what does systemd have to do with this? The original post gives an unexplained solution to a non-existent problem. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018151412.go23...@copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: update tool
2014-10-18 14:24 keltezéssel, Diogene Laerce írta: >> There are several: apticron, cron-apt, unattended-upgrades and I see >> update-notifier is being replaced with gnome-packagekit. > > I was looking for a portable and simple way to notify the user > of necessary update. But update-manager is not in Jessy, apticron and > cron-apt a bit too complicated.. I don't know apticron but in cron-apt you should only configure the destination email address and you can leave any other on the default setting. I would not say 'too complicated'. > I guess I'm going to stick with a > "update && upgrade" script. Your choice. -- --- Friczy --- 'Death is not a bug, it's a feature' -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54428233.9070...@freemail.hu
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Reco writes: > This page tells otherwise: > https://packages.debian.org/jessie/claws-mail > OK, it's 'libdbus-1-3', not 'dbus' dependency, but libdbus-1-3 > recommends dbus. Then it isn't a dependency. -- John Hasler jhas...@newsguy.com Elmwood, WI USA -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87bnp9juls@thumper.dhh.gt.org
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 19/10/14 00:29, Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:24:16 +0100 > Brian wrote: > >> On Sat 18 Oct 2014 at 14:28:26 +0200, Peter Nieman wrote: >> >>> On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: Why it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. >>> >>> You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask >>> yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then >>> why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? >> >> claws-mail does not depend on dbus. > > This page tells otherwise: > > https://packages.debian.org/jessie/claws-mail > > OK, it's 'libdbus-1-3', not 'dbus' dependency, but libdbus-1-3 > recommends dbus. > > Reco > > I think, based on the words used, Brian means "depends" not "recommends" i.e.:- apt-get --no-install-recommends install claws-mail will install claws-mail (and a host of other files) without libdbus But I suspect he'll gently correct your tangential confusion. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54426584.70...@gmail.com
Re: alternative file systems
On 19/10/14 00:14, Steve Litt wrote: > On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:06:17 +0400 > Reco wrote: > >> Hi. >> >> On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:24:16 -0400 >> Steve Litt wrote: >> >>> On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 03:00:26 +0200 >>> lee wrote: >>> >>> But when it eats files and is 10 years behind, why are people buying it? Thought the context has been removed from the quote... Reasons I've been given (roughly in order of occurrence):- because it cost a lot of money (for some value is relative to cost), because their apps/developers demand it, because that's what the cheque signers recognise, because it works for them, because they feel comfortable doing what the Jones are doing. If it did eat files for those that pay the big money - they wouldn't continue using it, though they might sack the administrators. The reasons given may not be the real reasons - my "impression" is that having made the choice (as the result of a deep emotional investment) they're unwilling to reassess their original opinion (which would challenge the reliability of their "gut" instinct". Alternatively, why buy a Rolls Royce? So how can we safely store large amounts of data? >>> >>> I thought Postgres was supposed to be powerful, stable, reliable, >>> and great for lots of data. >> >> Storing all your data in Postgres is surely possible, but what about >> convenience of doing so? >> I mean, how easily the data (say, home videos or photo collection) can >> be put in and retreived. To be fair, implementation and the management system are major factors in determining "it's" usability. >> >> Reco > > I think comm got crossed. Somebody had asked why we use Oracle, someone > else said that was a safe DBMS, and I said "what about Postgres. I > would never, never, NEVER store file data like home video or photos in > a DBMS. That's a perfectly valid personal choice, others (e.g. professional photographers and web developers) find image databases *indispensable* - especially when working with large (and very large) numbers of images. FOSS candidates include personal/professional image database-based programs like DigiKam, server apps like MediaGoblin, OpenDAM, and many others. As to choice of db - that's another personal choice, for every variation there's someone who'll point out the failing, in their 'experience' (mysql, postgres, nosql, etc, etc) there's a large and reputable company/site/institution that swears by it. And it that choice fails (eats files) there's usually an integrity checking and backup solution that someone says will fix it (if only the complainant had implement them). Flickr, Imgur, Youtube, Deviantart, and huge number of related sites seem to do OK... (and I'm specifically limiting my comments to Open Source - Adobe is another kettle of fish). I've had problems with half a dozen types of databases, and trouble free experiences with the same ones using different applications. I'd also note that others have had different experiences with the same applications. Implementation and use are major factors. -8<-->8 Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/5442637a.6030...@gmail.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
Hi. On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 14:24:16 +0100 Brian wrote: > On Sat 18 Oct 2014 at 14:28:26 +0200, Peter Nieman wrote: > > > On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: > > >Why > > >it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. > > > > You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask > > yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then > > why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? > > claws-mail does not depend on dbus. This page tells otherwise: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/claws-mail OK, it's 'libdbus-1-3', not 'dbus' dependency, but libdbus-1-3 recommends dbus. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018172928.87ac10bb28c00572bbcb0...@gmail.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On Sat 18 Oct 2014 at 14:28:26 +0200, Peter Nieman wrote: > On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: > >Why > >it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. > > You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask > yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then > why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? claws-mail does not depend on dbus. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/18102014142237.ef7e01505...@desktop.copernicus.demon.co.uk
Re: alternative file systems
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 12:06:17 +0400 Reco wrote: > Hi. > > On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:24:16 -0400 > Steve Litt wrote: > > > On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 03:00:26 +0200 > > lee wrote: > > > > > > > But when it eats files and is 10 years behind, why are people > > > buying it? > > > > > > So how can we safely store large amounts of data? > > > > I thought Postgres was supposed to be powerful, stable, reliable, > > and great for lots of data. > > Storing all your data in Postgres is surely possible, but what about > convenience of doing so? > I mean, how easily the data (say, home videos or photo collection) can > be put in and retreived. > > Reco I think comm got crossed. Somebody had asked why we use Oracle, someone else said that was a safe DBMS, and I said "what about Postgres. I would never, never, NEVER store file data like home video or photos in a DBMS. SteveT Steve Litt* http://www.troubleshooters.com/ Troubleshooting Training * Human Performance -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018091445.6bed5...@mydesq2.domain.cxm
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 18/10/14 23:28, Peter Nieman wrote: > On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: >> Why >> it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. > > You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask yourself > is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then why does > Debian ship a version that depends on it? > > Do you have an answer to your question? Wild guess - notifications? Now my question - why did you remove Brian's question from it's context? TIA NOTE: He was responding to the, um, claim that removing dbus in some unknown way removed a (possible??) systemd *dependency*. I'm all for removing the unnecessary - especially if it's code. Generally if it's considered a failing the usual course is to file a bug report but I can't seem to find one. All guidance is appreciated. Kind regards -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/544253b6.2010...@gmail.com
Re: Good news on claws-mail
On 17/10/14 20:25, Brian wrote: Why it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. You're asking the wrong question. The question you should ask yourself is: if claws-mail works perfectly well without dbus, then why does Debian ship a version that depends on it? -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m1tmir$bab$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: update tool
On 10/17/2014 10:18 PM, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Vi, 17 oct 14, 20:20:29, Diogene Laerce wrote: >> >> Debian does have a specific tool to check if a system needs to be >> updated but many users will just want to manually check if any >> security updates are available for their system. " > ... >> So does anyone know what tool he does refer to ? > > There are several: apticron, cron-apt, unattended-upgrades and I see > update-notifier is being replaced with gnome-packagekit. I was looking for a portable and simple way to notify the user of necessary update. But update-manager is not in Jessy, apticron and cron-apt a bit too complicated.. I guess I'm going to stick with a "update && upgrade" script. >> There are several: apticron, cron-apt, unattended-upgrades and I see >> update-notifier is being replaced with gnome-packagekit. > > So the text should read: "Debian has several tools to check if ..." ? > :) Thanks to all. :) -- “One original thought is worth a thousand mindless quotings.” “Le vrai n'est pas plus sûr que le probable.” Diogene Laerce signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
displaylink multihead
hi to everyone, i would ask if is possible to connect in multihead a displaylink display (connected by usb 2.0) and an other display connected by a hdmi port (with intel HD grapics gpu). sorry for my poor english and don't hesitate to reply me for any reason. have a nice day, Matteo Pellegrini
Outdated flash plugin
Hi there update-flashplugin-nonfree downloads old version; https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=765457 For i386 that's; http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/get/flashplayer/pdc/11.2.202.411/install_flash_player_11_linux.i386.tar.gz Regards, Rob -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/m1teer$ke1$1...@ger.gmane.org
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 18/10/14 02:38, Steve Litt wrote: I would add that it should be delegated to an interchangeable part through a well-specified thin interface, without global variables like dbus. Or, if there *must* be a global variable, at least make it purposed only for interaction between init and program, and not used by my music player to announce song titles. Conveniently, it appears that on my Debian jessie system, there are distinct system and session dbus-daemon instances. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54423a57.1060...@zen.co.uk
Re: how to boot in les than 8 minutes
dn Fri, 17 Oct 2014, Steve Litt wrote: . . . My suspicion at this point would be either a flaw in his smb.conf (which is easy to test by temporarily replacing it with a minimal) or Samba itself. . . . I was on the way to do that, but I first re-installed samba and samba-common packages, without modyfing smb.conf. I noticed that the version changed from 2:4.1.11+dfsg-1 to 2:4.1.11+dfsg-2 After that, the shutdown lasted 3 seconds! So, it seems that systemd is not guilty for the shutdown problem. I still noticed a curious fact Impossible to find what package provides /etc/samba/smb.conf "apt-file search smb.conf" only gives /usr/share/samba/smb.conf, from samba-common. /usr/share/samba/smb.conf and /etc/samba/dmb.conf are strictly identical Nevertheless, if I remove /etc/samba/smb.conf, the reinstall of samba or samba-common fails best regards, -- Pierre Frenkiel -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/alpine.deb.2.11.1410181110220.8...@pfr2.frenkiel-hure.net
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Sat, 2014-10-18 at 21:13 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:20:20PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote: [...] > > The list will likely be empty, I'm afraid. The whole point of the GR is > > that its proponents can make any required work SEP if it succeeds. > > SEP? Google is no help. Some Else's Problem? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somebody_Else's_Problem -- Tixy -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/1413620917.1218.1.ca...@yxit.co.uk
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 2014-10-18 10:13 +0200, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:20:20PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote: >> >> The list will likely be empty, I'm afraid. The whole point of the GR is >> that its proponents can make any required work SEP if it succeeds. > > SEP? Google is no help. I meant the acronym invented by Douglas Adams, sorry for my brevity. Cheers, Sven -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/87vbnhlr9a@turtle.gmx.de
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:20:20PM +0200, Sven Joachim wrote: > On 2014-10-17 21:42 +0200, Ric Moore wrote: > > > On 10/17/2014 01:32 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: > >> On 10/17/2014 1:29 PM, Tanstaafl wrote: > >>> I finished the thread right before I posted, and there were only 4 > >>> seconds. > >> > >> Guess I missed some sub threads or something... > >> > >> Oh well, glad to see it will get a vote... > > > > The fun part will be to see who actually steps up to the plate to do > > all of the extra work. > > I don't think it will be fun, or even interesting. > > > Especially amongst all of those pledged > > seconds. I hope someone is keeping a list. > > The list will likely be empty, I'm afraid. The whole point of the GR is > that its proponents can make any required work SEP if it succeeds. SEP? Google is no help. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018081323.GA22927@tal
Re: alternative file systems
Hi. On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 18:24:16 -0400 Steve Litt wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 03:00:26 +0200 > lee wrote: > > > > But when it eats files and is 10 years behind, why are people buying > > it? > > > > So how can we safely store large amounts of data? > > I thought Postgres was supposed to be powerful, stable, reliable, and > great for lots of data. Storing all your data in Postgres is surely possible, but what about convenience of doing so? I mean, how easily the data (say, home videos or photo collection) can be put in and retreived. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018120617.077d60723d4c84c999ed0...@gmail.com
Re: alternative file systems
Hi. On Fri, 17 Oct 2014 03:00:26 +0200 lee wrote: > Reco writes: > > > On Sun, Oct 12, 2014 at 03:33:15AM +0200, lee wrote: > >> > A correct guess. A recommended minimum is kernel 3.14 - [2]. > >> > >> So this is a rather new feature. How reliable and how well does it > >> work? > > > > I wouldn't trust my data to that feature :) It has 'experimental' and > > 'biohazard' labels strapped everywhere. > > I prefer trusty mdadm for any RAID. > > One of the disadvantages with mdadm is that it can severely impact > performance. Agreed. Still, I view RAID as a disaster prevention tool first, and any performance increases come only second if they do at all. > That doesn't mean that raid-5 with btrfs wouldn't have > this disadvantage, too. Sure. I'd only wait two or three years before trying it. btrfs by itself is interesting, it only needs to get rid of those 'experimental' labels IMO. > >> > But, ZFS won't allow you to make a conventional RAID5 either :) > >> > >> I know --- and I don't require RAID-5. What I require is what RAID-5 > >> provides, i. e. redundancy without wasting as many disks as other RAID > >> levels. I also like the better performance of hardware RAID compared to > >> software RAID. IIRC, ZFS would provide efficient redundancy and be > >> safer than a RAID controller because of it's checksumming. I'd have to > >> try it out to see what kind of performance degradation or gain it would > >> bring about. > > > > A real story. A recent one, a couple of weeks fresh. > > One shop buys *very* expensive Sun SuperCluster T4 with Solaris 11 and, > > of course, ZFS. Configures a couple of LDOMs on it. So far, so good. > > And then - it happens. A simple oversight - they filled up to 100% one > > of LDOMs' root zpool. > > They say that is should not happen, yet I've seen it with my own eyes - > > ZFS happily ate (i.e. they disappeared without a trace) a couple of > > shared libraries, rendering some basic OS utilities unusable. > > So, what good was those magical ZFS checksums did? > > And not having the checksumming has never caused a problem for me, as > far as I can tell ... Still that doesn't mean that it hasn't. The morale of the story is that checksums are not a silver bullet. > >> >> They need to get these license issues fixed ... > >> > > >> > Back in the old days CDDL was chosen by Sun especially so that > >> > this license issue would *never* be fixed. > >> > Currently Oracle could re-license ZFS to anything they want, including > >> > GPL-compatible license, but why would *they* do it? > >> > >> Why don't they? > > > > Simple - they sell servers based on Solaris as storage appliances (and > > they nearly 10 years behind ZFS on Linux as far as ZFS is concerned). Who > > will buy these servers if the same can be achieved with cheap Linux > > server? Oracle is greedy. > > But when it eats files and is 10 years behind, why are people buying it? Beats me. Either they use 'more expensive is better' approach, or they use human beings to watch very carefully that their filesystems do not overflow. And of course, such people backup their data usually :) > So how can we safely store large amounts of data? As far as long-term storage goes - I prefer LTO7. As for the short-term storage - I prefer ext4, lvm, mdadm *and* a backup. Reco -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018120254.2473361fa4c027f8e2996...@gmail.com
Re: update tool
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 11:18:53PM +0300, Andrei POPESCU wrote: > On Vi, 17 oct 14, 20:20:29, Diogene Laerce wrote: > > > > Debian does have a specific tool to check if a system needs to be > > updated but many users will just want to manually check if any > > security updates are available for their system. " > ... > > So does anyone know what tool he does refer to ? > > There are several: apticron, cron-apt, unattended-upgrades and I see > update-notifier is being replaced with gnome-packagekit. So the text should read: "Debian has several tools to check if ..." ? -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018075758.GG18928@tal
Re: dubious advice on claws-mail
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 07:25:18PM +0100, Brian wrote: > On Fri 17 Oct 2014 at 13:11:23 -0400, Steve Litt wrote: > > > For those of you using Claws-Mail, you can keep it systemd-free into > > the foreseeable future by disabling dbus, like this: > > > > ./configure --disable-dbus > > > > I've compiled Claws_Mail from source on Debian. It's fairly easy to do, > > it can exist in tandem with the existing Claws-Mail (obviously rename > > the executables), and it works. > > > > Bang, another 0d program! > > For those of you who (like me) have an unstable system with syvinit-core > (but not systemd-shim) this advice maight be puzzling. An install of > claws-mail doesn't bring in anything which is to do with systemd. Why > one needs to go to the trouble of compiling claws-mail is unknown. Why > it needs to be compiled without dbus is also unknown. Seems a lot of > work for no benefit. > > The OP will probably have good reasons for offering this advice (which > at first glance do not appear to fit reality). > > We await his response. Ignoring his suggestion might be a wise course > of action without it. Probably, a wise course of action anyway. Heaven knows what other non-standard things he's done to his system. If someone buggers up their system by following his advice, what help can we offer them? (answer - SFA) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018074313.GF18928@tal
Re: [exim4] Testing and making sense of smtp output
On Sat, 18 Oct 2014 00:13:54 +0100 Brian wrote: > On Fri 17 Oct 2014 at 03:20:44 +0200, lee wrote: > > > Brian writes: > > > > > Not that I'm suggesting setting up exim to offer an invalid HELO; > > > it will lead to trouble sooner or later. However, as a reason for > > > mail being rejected or not arriving it doesn't come top of the > > > list. > > > > Not accepting invalid HELOs is pretty high on the list because it's > > a very simple check. It gets rid of quite a lot of spam with > > minimal resource usage. > > It could also get rid of a lot of legitimate mail because of > misconfigured clients. ISPs get flack doing that so they come > to a decision whether it is worth being so strict. Many ignore > invalid HELOs. > > On the whole, paid-for smarthosts are very forgiving with email from their customers, as they are mostly dealing with email client applications of dubious provenance, and they are either accepting mail from their own networks or it will be authenticated. A public-facing SMTP server, accepting arbitrary unauthenticated email needs to be a bit more picky, and if a network MTA has an invalid HELO, someone should be told to fix it fairly quickly. -- Joe -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018082733.31419...@jresid.jretrading.com
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 10:20:16AM -0700, Rusi Mody wrote: > > > Here are the first few seconds: Isn't this information available on the debian-vote list? Seems redundant to repost it here. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141018072403.GE18928@tal
Re: GR proposed re: choice of init systems
On 10/17/2014 10:26 PM, Doug wrote: On 10/18/2014 12:59 AM, Jimmy Johnson wrote: /snip/ I think that depends on what solution you propose, smart people listen. AMEN! I can say that I long ago upgraded to Jessie/systemd so that I could be the first to yell about it. I'm still looking at a 4 monitor/ 2 video card setup with XFCE and it still works swimmingly well. not even one blip. That is more than I could say back when about the upgrade from KDE3 to KDE4. I cannot tell the difference from when I used systemv from now. /Snip/ That's not the problem. A few people have recognized the problem(s). 1--Putting all your eggs (programs) in one basket. Making almost everything have a dependency on systemd. Registry, anyone? 2--Forcing the entire Linux community to use just one system, and every application to be modified so as to run on systemd. 3--Making all those applications incompatible with any other version of Unix. Never mind "GNU's not Unix." This stuff we're running is essentially Unix. 4--Eliminating readable logs. I probably missed a few along the way. Doug, You seem to have a grasp of the situation. -- Jimmy Johnson PCLinuxOS 2014 - KDE 4.13.3 - AMD64 - EXT4 at sda10 Registered Linux User #380263 -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org Archive: https://lists.debian.org/54421329.9030...@gmail.com
