Re: [libreoffice-design] New names?
Hi all, On 01/02/2011 01:22, Barbara Duprey wrote: On 1/31/2011 3:07 PM, Kevin Soviero wrote: What was the reason they gave for not changing it? The main reason is that so far, the LibreOffice product has not really separated from OpenOffice.org, the code and documentation are essentially being developed together. (Even the rebranding of the documents just to go to LibreOffice is a good-sized project.) When LibO becomes a truly separate product, the names may be changed, though the earlier thread didn't really come to a conclusion about what the names should be. One set of possibilities is Write, Spread or Spreadsheet, Present, Base or Database, Draw, Formula -- but these are not all nouns or all verbs, and it isn't easy to come up with that kind of consistency. It's also hard to make them "catchy" without also making them obscure; Microsoft was able to get away with obscurity because they had such a huge market share, but LibreOffice can't start there. I would just like to add a small note here, when thinking of changing the names, please keep in mind that they are not translatable. Though we will use them in all the languages we are offering a version (around 80 right now). This to say that the names need to be easy and simple to pronounce in almost any languages, but also easy to read and write too (think to complex script writings, etc). Currently all the names quite fill this requirements (Writer is not so easy to pronounce everywhere). Kind regards Sophie -- Founding member of The Document Foundation -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] New names?
I agree with you on this one. Although the name is not everything, it definitely should at least convey a polished, useful program. Writer and Impress are fine by me, but names like Calc, Base, and even Draw just do not seem appealing to me. They almost feel like they were used because there was nothing better thought of. For example, instead of Draw, I think something like "Sketchpad" or "Images" or "Sketch" could work and also sound nicer. Ryan On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Kevin Hunter wrote: > At 5:12pm -0500 Tue, 01 Feb 2011, Paulo José wrote: > >> I like very much the original names... :-) I don't see need to >> change them... >> > > I must disagree. I've often thought the original names could use some > work. > > In English, anyway, Calc at the very least sounds rough and does not convey > anything other than a calculator in common vernacular. The MS counterpart, > Excel does a great job of putting together 'excellent' and 'cell' and > literally 'to excel'. In that name, cell being the operative idea. > > Power Point doesn't have the same word creativity and unification as Excel, > but does have the fact that it rolls off the tongue. Keynote is the same > way, *and* has a direct meaning to giving keynote presentations. Impress > creates a less bold sound, and doesn't specifically call up an image in the > mind > > Writer makes sense, and as far as I'm concerned works. > > Base ... same thing as impress. I suppose it could be a 'base' of > information, but it just doesn't have a creative edge behind it. > > Draw is in a similar boat. > > All of these names could be improved by merely having a better prefix. For > instance, Word has almost no play. It is just 'word'. But when put > together with 'emm ess Word' or 'Microsoft Word' it sounds more bold. > Juxtapose with saying 'oh oh Writer', 'ell oh Writer', or 'LibreOffice > Writer'. > > Of course, I'm speaking only about my impressions and in terms of English > as I know it in USA. The sound might me much more pleasing in other > languages or accents. > > Food for thought, I hope. > > Kevin > > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Hi Pawel, 2011/2/3 Paweł K. : > I am writing about file type icons (fe. DOC, DOCX, ODT) and also about icons > in LibreOffice toolbars (fe. button "Save", "Bold"). As I said, I like icons > from OpenOffice 3.2.1. > Thanks for fast reply and sorry for my bad English. Thanks for clarifying that - Christoph was right (he usually is ;P) We had lots of negative feedback on the OOo mailing lists about 3.2.1 icons (mainly because they lacked color) - it was quite a significant issue and it made lots of users angry. One of the first things LibO did was to revert the icons to the pre-3.2.1 style before new icons could be implemented. We are now (almost) ready with those new icons, and you can see them on this image: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9MZR46ZEuS8/TURcR5CLQPI/AuA/6gLZ8h2RS9Y/s1600/RevisedIcons128px.png For me they offer the best of both worlds: an improved design and much needed color. What do you think? Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Christoph Noack wrote: > > It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this > > way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it > > tomorrow) and other tasks ! > > Thorsten, might that work? I didn't follow the discussion that closely > concerning how to export / do the icons. Do you need some help, then > please ask on the mailing list. > Will work, will keep you posted. :) Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Paulo, Paulo José Amaro schrieb: No, my detailing in the Jaron gear was not good, actually. Use your version, I insist. :) Okay (but it's still your work - I just moved it from your to Jaron's icons...) And there's a portuguese expression that says: "The hurry is enemy of the perfection"... So I uploaded my latest file to the wrong file in the wiki... Sorry for that, I already restored the right version of the Initial icons and i'm uploading my current version - now - in the right place. *shame* No need to shame ;-) I was just wondering... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
RE: [libreoffice-design] New names?
I never realized Excel came from Cell... " Juxtapose with saying 'oh oh Writer', 'ell oh Writer',"Solution: all programs should be called "Govna" so it can be "ell oh Govna" > Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 16:17:02 -0500 > From: kmhun...@ncsu.edu > To: design@libreoffice.org > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-design] New names? > > At 5:12pm -0500 Tue, 01 Feb 2011, Paulo José wrote: > > I like very much the original names... :-) I don't see need to > > change them... > > I must disagree. I've often thought the original names could use some work. > > In English, anyway, Calc at the very least sounds rough and does not > convey anything other than a calculator in common vernacular. The MS > counterpart, Excel does a great job of putting together 'excellent' and > 'cell' and literally 'to excel'. In that name, cell being the operative > idea. > > Power Point doesn't have the same word creativity and unification as > Excel, but does have the fact that it rolls off the tongue. Keynote is > the same way, *and* has a direct meaning to giving keynote > presentations. Impress creates a less bold sound, and doesn't > specifically call up an image in the mind > > Writer makes sense, and as far as I'm concerned works. > > Base ... same thing as impress. I suppose it could be a 'base' of > information, but it just doesn't have a creative edge behind it. > > Draw is in a similar boat. > > All of these names could be improved by merely having a better prefix. > For instance, Word has almost no play. It is just 'word'. But when put > together with 'emm ess Word' or 'Microsoft Word' it sounds more bold. > Juxtapose with saying 'oh oh Writer', 'ell oh Writer', or 'LibreOffice > Writer'. > > Of course, I'm speaking only about my impressions and in terms of > English as I know it in USA. The sound might me much more pleasing in > other languages or accents. > > Food for thought, I hope. > > Kevin > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
No, my detailing in the Jaron gear was not good, actually. Use your version, I insist. :) And there's a portuguese expression that says: "The hurry is enemy of the perfection"... So I uploaded my latest file to the wrong file in the wiki... Sorry for that, I already restored the right version of the Initial icons and i'm uploading my current version - now - in the right place. *shame* -- Paulo José O. Amaro Estudante de Ciência da Computação / UFSJ Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Blogueiro / CasaTwain.com 2011/2/2 Bernhard Dippold > Hi Paulo, * > > Paulo José Amaro schrieb: > > Very quickly: i'm personally for the Jaron Gear. I've done the detailing >> job >> on it too, but the proposal here looks better actually. :D >> > > Better than yours? I can't imagine > (I only copied your shadings to Jaron's gears) > > Unfortunately I can't get your file from the wiki: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Paulo.svg > still shows the old one (even with forced reload). > > You uploaded a new version of this file: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_source.svg > > But it shows the old Macro icons too. > > Can you help me? > > Best regards > > Bernhard > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Re: Request (Pictures, Pictures, Pictures)
H all! Maybe you missed the call for pictures ;-) Just to make it "water proof" ... Am Dienstag, den 01.02.2011, 23:40 +0100 schrieb Christoph Noack: [...] > But now to my request, as stated in the subject. As most of you know, I > proposed to have a talk at the FOSDEM [1]. Originally, I thought about > presenting ideas ... but since we are now in our "real" kick-off, I > think it would be nice to closing the "gap" between developers and > ourselves. Consequently, I'd like to ask you for some pictures - giving > the presentation a personal touch :-) > > What do you think? If this is okay to use them in a public presentation, > then please send me your picture - maybe one you already use for social > media stuff?. Please reply to my personal mail address, since the list > doesn't allow attachments. From experience, a reasonable size is (larger > than) 150x200 pixels as we used here [2] ... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] New names?
At 5:12pm -0500 Tue, 01 Feb 2011, Paulo José wrote: I like very much the original names... :-) I don't see need to change them... I must disagree. I've often thought the original names could use some work. In English, anyway, Calc at the very least sounds rough and does not convey anything other than a calculator in common vernacular. The MS counterpart, Excel does a great job of putting together 'excellent' and 'cell' and literally 'to excel'. In that name, cell being the operative idea. Power Point doesn't have the same word creativity and unification as Excel, but does have the fact that it rolls off the tongue. Keynote is the same way, *and* has a direct meaning to giving keynote presentations. Impress creates a less bold sound, and doesn't specifically call up an image in the mind Writer makes sense, and as far as I'm concerned works. Base ... same thing as impress. I suppose it could be a 'base' of information, but it just doesn't have a creative edge behind it. Draw is in a similar boat. All of these names could be improved by merely having a better prefix. For instance, Word has almost no play. It is just 'word'. But when put together with 'emm ess Word' or 'Microsoft Word' it sounds more bold. Juxtapose with saying 'oh oh Writer', 'ell oh Writer', or 'LibreOffice Writer'. Of course, I'm speaking only about my impressions and in terms of English as I know it in USA. The sound might me much more pleasing in other languages or accents. Food for thought, I hope. Kevin -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Completely off-topic, but my mail client is dieing to be downloading +6000 messages. I hope it is a mistake! I ACTUALLY hope it is a mistake! *** :O *** -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Paulo, * Paulo José Amaro schrieb: Very quickly: i'm personally for the Jaron Gear. I've done the detailing job on it too, but the proposal here looks better actually. :D Better than yours? I can't imagine (I only copied your shadings to Jaron's gears) Unfortunately I can't get your file from the wiki: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Paulo.svg still shows the old one (even with forced reload). You uploaded a new version of this file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_source.svg But it shows the old Macro icons too. Can you help me? Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Thanks Barnhard! I didn't see the gradient was wrong - my fault. Good it was correct in time. :) -- Paulo José O. Amaro Estudante de Ciência da Computação / UFSJ Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Blogueiro / CasaTwain.com 2011/2/2 Bernhard Dippold > Paulo José Amaro schrieb: > > Even more quickly: Can someone show me the rip-off line in the Impress >> icon? >> I actually didn't see it. :P >> > > The background of the inner area is too dark - Gradient goes from > LibreMarron2 to LibreMarron3 instead of 3 -> 4 > (The other icons use a lighter gradient, therefore the rip-off looks > lighter too) > > (Already in earlier versions and in the 256px version too) > > If I remember correctly - just wanted to tell you instantly. > > Best regards > > Bernhard > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Paulo José Amaro schrieb: Even more quickly: Can someone show me the rip-off line in the Impress icon? I actually didn't see it. :P The background of the inner area is too dark - Gradient goes from LibreMarron2 to LibreMarron3 instead of 3 -> 4 (The other icons use a lighter gradient, therefore the rip-off looks lighter too) (Already in earlier versions and in the 256px version too) If I remember correctly - just wanted to tell you instantly. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Even more quickly: Can someone show me the rip-off line in the Impress icon? I actually didn't see it. :P -- Paulo José O. Amaro Estudante de Ciência da Computação / UFSJ Webdesigner / Linked E.J. Blogueiro / CasaTwain.com Em 2 de fevereiro de 2011 19:03, Paulo José Amaro escreveu: > Very quickly: i'm personally for the Jaron Gear. I've done the detailing > job on it too, but the proposal here looks better actually. :D > > ~Paulo > > 2011/2/2 Christoph Noack > > Hi Bernhard, hi Thorsten! >> >> I keep the full mail, since I'd like to forward it to Thorsten - who >> might not be aware of this mail. >> >> Am Mittwoch, den 02.02.2011, 21:27 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: >> > Hi Jaron, all, >> > >> > sorry that I can't work on the icons today, but I'm sick - the stomach >> > flu my children had during the last days caught myself. >> >> :-( Oh, please recover very soon ... >> >> > So I try to get at least the most important stuff done... >> > >> > Jaron Kuppers schrieb: >> > > Hi Bernhard, >> > > >> > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold< >> > > bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote: >> > > >> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png >> > >> >> > >> Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? >> > >> >> > > I think the "Jaron gear" works better at the 16px but "Paulo's gear" >> looks >> > > better at the 128px size. >> > >> > I just copied the shadings Paulo used for his icons to the "Jaron gear" >> > - but as Paulo has limited Internet access he will probably not be able >> > to step in in time. >> > > >> > > >> > >> Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? >> > >> >> > >> As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. >> > >> >> > > If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. >> I >> > > would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be >> hurt. :-) >> > >> > My personal impression is that your gear look more technical, it can't >> > be mistaken as star or flower. >> > >> > So as nobody else commented on them, I'd go with yours. >> > >> > I'm quite sure that these icons will be visible on the user's desktop >> > quite seldom - and from my personal experience (not UX based) these >> > people rather use smaller than larger document icons. >> > > >> > > I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template >> gradient >> > >> in this source file: >> > >> >> > >> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg >> > >> >> > >> If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to >> hand >> > >> over to Thorsten tomorrow. >> > >> >> > >> So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: >> > >> >> > > In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it >> > > started at 2 and then I got really critical) >> > > 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little >> light. >> > > 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar >> > > contrast too much >> > > 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the >> > > triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons >> > > 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I >> think... >> > > (opacity changed to ~80) >> > > 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px "World" and shrink it to >> the >> > > 16px world size and then change the "web" to 0.5 px width you get a >> nicer >> > > icon.* >> > >> > I can see all the points (perhaps except the last one - I'd like to have >> > it visualized), some of them apply to the 256px icons too: So yes, there >> > is room for improvement. >> > >> > I'd like to read Paulo's and Christoph's comments (and other's). >> > >> > But as time for improvements for the LibO 3.3.1 release seems to be >> > over, we'll have to work on them for the next release. >> > >> > As your proposals don't change the general look&feel, it will not lead >> > to user confusion when we change the icons slightly in the next >> releases. >> > >> > So I'd like to ask Thorsten to use this file to create the icons to be >> > included in LibreOffice 3.3.1: >> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d4/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg >> > >> > >> > I can't find the issue/bug where the first version of the icons has been >> > uploaded to bugs.freedesktop.org, so I can't attach the file there. >> >> But we do have the wiki page ;-) >> >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons#Source_Code_Integration >> >> However, I've added the link to the most recent files to the issue >> tracker. >> >> > It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this >> > way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it >> > tomorrow) and other tasks ! >> >> Thorsten, might that work? I didn't follow the discussion that closely >> concerning how to export / do the icons. Do you need some help, th
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Very quickly: i'm personally for the Jaron Gear. I've done the detailing job on it too, but the proposal here looks better actually. :D ~Paulo 2011/2/2 Christoph Noack > Hi Bernhard, hi Thorsten! > > I keep the full mail, since I'd like to forward it to Thorsten - who > might not be aware of this mail. > > Am Mittwoch, den 02.02.2011, 21:27 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > > Hi Jaron, all, > > > > sorry that I can't work on the icons today, but I'm sick - the stomach > > flu my children had during the last days caught myself. > > :-( Oh, please recover very soon ... > > > So I try to get at least the most important stuff done... > > > > Jaron Kuppers schrieb: > > > Hi Bernhard, > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold< > > > bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote: > > > > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png > > >> > > >> Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? > > >> > > > I think the "Jaron gear" works better at the 16px but "Paulo's gear" > looks > > > better at the 128px size. > > > > I just copied the shadings Paulo used for his icons to the "Jaron gear" > > - but as Paulo has limited Internet access he will probably not be able > > to step in in time. > > > > > > > > >> Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? > > >> > > >> As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. > > >> > > > If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. > I > > > would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be > hurt. :-) > > > > My personal impression is that your gear look more technical, it can't > > be mistaken as star or flower. > > > > So as nobody else commented on them, I'd go with yours. > > > > I'm quite sure that these icons will be visible on the user's desktop > > quite seldom - and from my personal experience (not UX based) these > > people rather use smaller than larger document icons. > > > > > > I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template > gradient > > >> in this source file: > > >> > > >> > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg > > >> > > >> If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to > hand > > >> over to Thorsten tomorrow. > > >> > > >> So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: > > >> > > > In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it > > > started at 2 and then I got really critical) > > > 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light. > > > 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar > > > contrast too much > > > 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the > > > triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons > > > 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I > think... > > > (opacity changed to ~80) > > > 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px "World" and shrink it to > the > > > 16px world size and then change the "web" to 0.5 px width you get a > nicer > > > icon.* > > > > I can see all the points (perhaps except the last one - I'd like to have > > it visualized), some of them apply to the 256px icons too: So yes, there > > is room for improvement. > > > > I'd like to read Paulo's and Christoph's comments (and other's). > > > > But as time for improvements for the LibO 3.3.1 release seems to be > > over, we'll have to work on them for the next release. > > > > As your proposals don't change the general look&feel, it will not lead > > to user confusion when we change the icons slightly in the next releases. > > > > So I'd like to ask Thorsten to use this file to create the icons to be > > included in LibreOffice 3.3.1: > > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d4/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg > > > > > > I can't find the issue/bug where the first version of the icons has been > > uploaded to bugs.freedesktop.org, so I can't attach the file there. > > But we do have the wiki page ;-) > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons#Source_Code_Integration > > However, I've added the link to the most recent files to the issue > tracker. > > > It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this > > way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it > > tomorrow) and other tasks ! > > Thorsten, might that work? I didn't follow the discussion that closely > concerning how to export / do the icons. Do you need some help, then > please ask on the mailing list. > > Unfortunately, I'm unable to help today/tomorrow, since I'm also a bit > busy as well :-\ > > Cheers, > Christoph > > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to > design+h...@libreoffice.org > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ > *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h..
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...
Hi Paulo! Just to comment one thing ... Am Mittwoch, den 02.02.2011, 16:09 -0200 schrieb Paulo José: > > Come back later - there will still be enough to be done... > Still being with my family, I can't stay doing nothing... hahaha. I > need > to work even in vacations to be happy. I must be crazy... :P No, not crazy. You simply "joined the club" - people who work at night, during vacation, reading mails when going to work, ... Welcome! ;-) Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Bernhard, hi Thorsten! I keep the full mail, since I'd like to forward it to Thorsten - who might not be aware of this mail. Am Mittwoch, den 02.02.2011, 21:27 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: > Hi Jaron, all, > > sorry that I can't work on the icons today, but I'm sick - the stomach > flu my children had during the last days caught myself. :-( Oh, please recover very soon ... > So I try to get at least the most important stuff done... > > Jaron Kuppers schrieb: > > Hi Bernhard, > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold< > > bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote: > > > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png > >> > >> Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? > >> > > I think the "Jaron gear" works better at the 16px but "Paulo's gear" looks > > better at the 128px size. > > I just copied the shadings Paulo used for his icons to the "Jaron gear" > - but as Paulo has limited Internet access he will probably not be able > to step in in time. > > > > > >> Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? > >> > >> As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. > >> > > If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. I > > would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be hurt. :-) > > My personal impression is that your gear look more technical, it can't > be mistaken as star or flower. > > So as nobody else commented on them, I'd go with yours. > > I'm quite sure that these icons will be visible on the user's desktop > quite seldom - and from my personal experience (not UX based) these > people rather use smaller than larger document icons. > > > > I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient > >> in this source file: > >> > >> http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg > >> > >> If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand > >> over to Thorsten tomorrow. > >> > >> So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: > >> > > In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it > > started at 2 and then I got really critical) > > 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light. > > 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar > > contrast too much > > 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the > > triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons > > 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think... > > (opacity changed to ~80) > > 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px "World" and shrink it to the > > 16px world size and then change the "web" to 0.5 px width you get a nicer > > icon.* > > I can see all the points (perhaps except the last one - I'd like to have > it visualized), some of them apply to the 256px icons too: So yes, there > is room for improvement. > > I'd like to read Paulo's and Christoph's comments (and other's). > > But as time for improvements for the LibO 3.3.1 release seems to be > over, we'll have to work on them for the next release. > > As your proposals don't change the general look&feel, it will not lead > to user confusion when we change the icons slightly in the next releases. > > So I'd like to ask Thorsten to use this file to create the icons to be > included in LibreOffice 3.3.1: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d4/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg > > > > I can't find the issue/bug where the first version of the icons has been > uploaded to bugs.freedesktop.org, so I can't attach the file there. But we do have the wiki page ;-) http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons#Source_Code_Integration However, I've added the link to the most recent files to the issue tracker. > It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this > way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it > tomorrow) and other tasks ! Thorsten, might that work? I didn't follow the discussion that closely concerning how to export / do the icons. Do you need some help, then please ask on the mailing list. Unfortunately, I'm unable to help today/tomorrow, since I'm also a bit busy as well :-\ Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: More time for improvements...
Hi Bernhard! On 31-01-2011 22:21, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Great! I think you did most of the work necessary to integrate the icons. :D Yeah, I think there's not much work to be done now. I think the 256px version in High Contrast is not needed, since the 128px already allow accessibility enough. The current version: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Paulo.svg One thing you couldn't include are the Macro icons by Jaron, because they have been created after Christoph finished his version. They can be found in the combined source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons_source.svg I don't know if any of the other icons need some more work, but we should be able to finish this task until next week. Done, Jaron Macro icons included! http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-Paulo.svg PS: Now I'm in my birthplace for some days and I just have internet in cafes. :( Take your time! Your family and friends are more important than LibO (perhaps you can tell them about this community and the product ;-) ). Yeah, my family, my friends and my dog are the most important thing in my life. It's extremely hard stay away from all them almost the whole year... But it's for the university, so I'm following my dream and that will be the reward. Come back later - there will still be enough to be done... Still being with my family, I can't stay doing nothing... hahaha. I need to work even in vacations to be happy. I must be crazy... :P Enjoy your beautiful family too, Bernhard! See you, ~Paulo -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Hi Jaron, all, sorry that I can't work on the icons today, but I'm sick - the stomach flu my children had during the last days caught myself. So I try to get at least the most important stuff done... Jaron Kuppers schrieb: Hi Bernhard, On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM, Bernhard Dippold< bernh...@familie-dippold.at> wrote: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:Macro_icons.png Do you think they are okay in comparable in quality? I think the "Jaron gear" works better at the 16px but "Paulo's gear" looks better at the 128px size. I just copied the shadings Paulo used for his icons to the "Jaron gear" - but as Paulo has limited Internet access he will probably not be able to step in in time. Which one should we propose to include in LibreOffice 3.3.1? As part of our collaborative work I'd like to include Jaron's. If you honestly think Paulo's gear is better don't include my change. I would rather the better icon be shipped out. My feelings won't be hurt. :-) My personal impression is that your gear look more technical, it can't be mistaken as star or flower. So as nobody else commented on them, I'd go with yours. I'm quite sure that these icons will be visible on the user's desktop quite seldom - and from my personal experience (not UX based) these people rather use smaller than larger document icons. I integrated Jaron's Macro icons and the lighter Impress template gradient in this source file: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg If we are okay with the icons in this file, they will be the ones to hand over to Thorsten tomorrow. So please comment all: Critics, approval, what ever else: In general the icons look great! My five dislikes are: (by the way it started at 2 and then I got really critical) 1) Calc 128px icon: The middle column at the top row is a little light. 2) Calc 128px icon: The lines on the bar graph next to the orange bar contrast too much 3) Draw 16px icon: I liked it better in a previous iteration where the triangle was the same equilateral triangle as in the other icons 4) Impress 128px icon: The shadow could be a little bit darker I think... (opacity changed to ~80) 5) HTML/Web 16px icon: If you take the 32px "World" and shrink it to the 16px world size and then change the "web" to 0.5 px width you get a nicer icon.* I can see all the points (perhaps except the last one - I'd like to have it visualized), some of them apply to the 256px icons too: So yes, there is room for improvement. I'd like to read Paulo's and Christoph's comments (and other's). But as time for improvements for the LibO 3.3.1 release seems to be over, we'll have to work on them for the next release. As your proposals don't change the general look&feel, it will not lead to user confusion when we change the icons slightly in the next releases. So I'd like to ask Thorsten to use this file to create the icons to be included in LibreOffice 3.3.1: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/d/d4/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons-pre_final.svg I can't find the issue/bug where the first version of the icons has been uploaded to bugs.freedesktop.org, so I can't attach the file there. It's a great result for a really collaborative work - and we go on this way with the new logo (I like Nik's proposal very much - will comment it tomorrow) and other tasks ! All the best Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] New names?
Hi, I like very much the original names... :-) I don't see need to change them... On 31-01-2011 18:38, Kevin Soviero wrote: I was thinking if we could change the names in LibreOffice to some that are more descriptive? Not only that, but since we are changing everything else (icons, layout, office suite name), why don't we change the app names to better fit their purpose. Writer (I actually like this) Calc (A lot of spreadsheet work has nothing to do with calcualtions) Impress (Too bland IMO) Base (Way to bland IMO) Compare them to their rivals: *MS Office:* Word Excel Power Point Access *iWork:* Pages Numbers Keynote -- Paulo José O. Amaro Computer Science Student Federal University of São João del-Rei WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior Blogger / casatwain.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
I am writing about file type icons (fe. DOC, DOCX, ODT) and also about icons in LibreOffice toolbars (fe. button "Save", "Bold"). As I said, I like icons from OpenOffice 3.2.1. Thanks for fast reply and sorry for my bad English. 2011/2/2 Ivan M. Hi Christoph, Pawel, > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Christoph Noack > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > since Paweł is not subscribed, I'll CC him. Paweł, the use of the "old" > > icons was a step to improve usability until our own icons set is ready. > > So I'd propose you give the LibreOffice 3.2.1 a try that will appear in > > a few days. > > > > In this bugfix release version, we'll add the following icon design: > > http://luxate.blogspot.com/search/label/Art > > > > Status page: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons > > > > I hope this helps ... and by the way, the icons within OpenOffice.org > > will be changed soon - because of the usability issues I've already > > mentioned. > > I think Pawel was referring to the Tango icon theme in the toolbars > (versus the newer Galaxy icons in OOo) > > Regards, > Ivan. > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Hi Ivan, yes, ouch (!), you may be right. Thanks for the hint ... Cheers, Christoph Am Donnerstag, den 03.02.2011, 07:05 +1300 schrieb Ivan M.: > Hi Christoph, Pawel, > > On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Christoph Noack > wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > since Paweł is not subscribed, I'll CC him. Paweł, the use of the "old" > > icons was a step to improve usability until our own icons set is ready. > > So I'd propose you give the LibreOffice 3.2.1 a try that will appear in > > a few days. > > > > In this bugfix release version, we'll add the following icon design: > > http://luxate.blogspot.com/search/label/Art > > > > Status page: > > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons > > > > I hope this helps ... and by the way, the icons within OpenOffice.org > > will be changed soon - because of the usability issues I've already > > mentioned. > > I think Pawel was referring to the Tango icon theme in the toolbars > (versus the newer Galaxy icons in OOo) > > Regards, > Ivan. > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Hi Christoph, Pawel, On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 6:59 AM, Christoph Noack wrote: > Hi all, > > since Paweł is not subscribed, I'll CC him. Paweł, the use of the "old" > icons was a step to improve usability until our own icons set is ready. > So I'd propose you give the LibreOffice 3.2.1 a try that will appear in > a few days. > > In this bugfix release version, we'll add the following icon design: > http://luxate.blogspot.com/search/label/Art > > Status page: > http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons > > I hope this helps ... and by the way, the icons within OpenOffice.org > will be changed soon - because of the usability issues I've already > mentioned. I think Pawel was referring to the Tango icon theme in the toolbars (versus the newer Galaxy icons in OOo) Regards, Ivan. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Hi all, since Paweł is not subscribed, I'll CC him. Paweł, the use of the "old" icons was a step to improve usability until our own icons set is ready. So I'd propose you give the LibreOffice 3.2.1 a try that will appear in a few days. In this bugfix release version, we'll add the following icon design: http://luxate.blogspot.com/search/label/Art Status page: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Design/LibreOffice_Initial_Icons I hope this helps ... and by the way, the icons within OpenOffice.org will be changed soon - because of the usability issues I've already mentioned. Cheers, Christoph Am Mittwoch, den 02.02.2011, 17:37 +0100 schrieb Paweł K.: > Hi. > Recently I downloaded your final version of LibreOffice. I am disappointed > because of this old icons. You could change it - I like new icons from > Oracle's OpenOffice.org. Rest is good. > Greetings > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-design] Weak icons
Hi. Recently I downloaded your final version of LibreOffice. I am disappointed because of this old icons. You could change it - I like new icons from Oracle's OpenOffice.org. Rest is good. Greetings -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] CSS Styles for Website (Was: Problem with CSS)
Hi all, I didn't really like the Vegur font icon items so I remade them... see [1] bottom row. Cheers, Jaron [1] https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5569103899631190338 On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:17 AM, Jaron Kuppers wrote: > Hi Ivan and Paulo, > > Please see [1] some new icons that use the correct shadowing. There are > three different iterations of design (very subtle differences) which can > be mixed and matched based on what people like. Essentially the top row is > a reworked "old" style (incorrect shadowing) but may be useful at some later > date for button clicks or the like. Then the bottom 3 rows are the new > icons. I attempted to use the "Vegur" font for the "i", "!", and "?" to be > consistent with other LibO themes; however it had to be modified to be > practical for the icons. Frankly I very much dislike the "?" in the Vegur > font and if people think its okay I can redesign the icons with non-Vegur > font characters. > > Let me know what you like, dislike or if you want me to rework them > entirely. Also, is there a wiki page for this topic? I can upload my > source file. > > Cheers, > Jaron > > [1] > https://picasaweb.google.com/JaronBaron/LibreOffice#5568013638479025490 > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Jaron Kuppers wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> FYI, I am working on Ivan's request for more appropriate "images." >> Actually I am done but have a busy evening so won't be able to send the >> final product until tomorrow morning (USA time). >> >> Cheers, >> Jaron >> >> >> >> 2011/1/28 Paulo José >> >> Hey Ivan, great job! >>> >>> I liked your CSS styles and I love how you made use of :after, :before >>> and box-shadow! They look great in both Firefox and Chrome. Did you test in >>> Internet Explorer [Oh, the horror]? :P Anyway, really really good job, man! >>> :D >>> >>> Just a think that came to me now... Would be great if you'll make some >>> examples of Jquery use, I don't know, maybe in galleries, slideshows, these >>> cool things. Or even of CSS transsitions! :) >>> >>> Thank you for your effort! This is much appreciate! >>> ~Paulo >>> >>> >>> >>> On 28-01-2011 09:32, Ivan M. wrote: >>> Hi all, Near the very end of the confcall, we discussed the need for a wider range of CSS styles on the website. I have created a few to get the ball rolling - you can see them at [1]. The CSS pertaining to these styles can be found at [2] Please feel free to propose other styles (especially text styles that can be used to make text-heavy pages a little more interesting). I was also wondering if someone could create more fitting images (information, warning, error, etc) which are in line with our branding style (e.g. using inner shadows and LibO colors)? The ones there are intended to be temporary and were sourced from [3]. Regards, Ivan. --- [1] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/index.html [2] http://patentpending.co.nz/libreoffice/static-test2/new.css [3] http://itweek.deviantart.com/art/Knob-Buttons-Toolbar-icons-73463960 >>> >>> -- >>> Paulo José O. Amaro >>> Computer Science Student >>> Federal University of São João del-Rei >>> WebDesigner / Linked Empresa Júnior >>> Blogger / casatwain.com >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to >>> design+h...@libreoffice.org >>> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ >>> *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity *** >>> >>> >> > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] Logo proposal without TDF line
Note to all: long email, you may want to skip it and just check out these if you have time; * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs01.jpg * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs02.jpg * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs03.jpg * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs04.jpg * http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs05.jpg Hi Bernhard! I know I told you I'd be busy with my research but you keep raising interesting topics that lure me back! =) Besides, some /*very*/ important stuff is being decided right now, that if I miss out on, I know it will never get changed again. That is the way of Open-Source huh? like a big machine on rails that can only go forward, not back =) On 1/31/2011 9:12 AM, Bernhard Dippold wrote: Do you think we can present this logo (or something similar) to the Steering Committee as our Design Team proposal for an official logo of LibreOffice for external use? Comments? Critics? Improvements? If the possibility of /small/ changes are possible to the logo in this context, can we take this opportunity to address some if its shortcomings? I mean it is the *one symbol* that represents this WHOLE community and project. It wouldn't entail major changes, but the longer we trudge on with an "interim logo", the more certain I become that it will remain the *only* logo tried. I won't write a million words like I usually do, just a thousand =) ... I'll try and explain in designs instead; I've uploaded a deconstruction of the TDF-less logos here; *http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs01.jpg* R01 was the centered original logo, R02 is what I think David was suggesting (*bottom* aligned as /well/ as right-aligned). But even with R02, the space between the icon and the text creates a "void" and looks separated. R03 is what I would recommend, I think the gap could decrease and because the letter L has a good "corner" effect, it perfectly juxtaposes the icon when aligned. This way, the entire arrangement would look like one visual "block" which is what you want; White space /around/ the logo, rather than /between/. This image shows how the spacing may be causing the element to look "disconnected"; *http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs02.jpg* If we were feeling adventurous, I think small changes could really improve the look of the current logo; (refer to R05) *http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs03.jpg* - Clip the L so it is cut by the same gap which slices the paper icon: for continuation. - Lighten the colours to mid-grey instead of dark-grey, this will still print well and compliments the green better. - Colour the "broken corner" of the paper icon to create a focal point that leads the eye through the logo I'm not sure giving the members "logos" is the entire solution because it just creates many logo variations. I think creating "badges" for community members with a non-TDF logo /attached/ will send the right message without diluting the brand. Because it suggests affiliation without suggesting ownership. I think Charles mentioned this in an Email to the Design list (I've CC'ed him), I was really excited by the prospect of making team badges, but because I'm short on time, I've only got roughs (plenty of glitches). I thought the topic could wait, but these are related things. I thought we could create "shields" or "emblems" for our community. R07 shows "members" and "distributors" roughs only; *http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs04.jpg* And they could be arranged in something like this way (R08); *http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/File:LibOlogo_reconfigs05.jpg* This way it is not a logo, it is more like signage. Right about now, you're probably hoping you hadn't asked for feedback right? I'm sorry =) ... But let me know what you think, these are all embedded in my page now anyway; http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:Nik I'm sorry I keep bringing this up, but I think it's necessary to discuss and plan for this. Most people will see our logo before they even try the software. We might lose them before we even shake their hand. -Nik -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-design] MimeType icons: final run!
Bernhard Dippold wrote: > >(so I'd ask for a short moratorium, and then suggest continue > >working on separate files going forward - since it really relieves a > >lot of the pain I experience when updating artwork) > > Do you want us to work on single source files for each icon? > Yes, that's the proposal. Makes an automated workflow much easier, one can give the svgs telling names, etc etc. Cheers, -- Thorsten -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to design+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/design/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
