Re: docker-compose & selinux

[Nikos Roussos]

On 10/28/2016 02:58 PM, Daniel J Walsh wrote:
> What AVC's are you seeing?

Plenty of AVC messages in the form:

type=AVC msg=audit(1477853452.023:1338): avc:  denied  { setattr } for
pid=23456 comm="chown" name="app_model.MYD" dev="dm-0" ino=10879938
scontext=system_u:system_r:container_t:s0:c140,c877
tcontext=system_u:object_r:container_var_lib_t:s0 tclass=file permissive=0

Where app_model is a specific database table. So by plenty I mean I get
one AVC for each database table of my application (for .MYD|.MYI|.frm)


Or similarly:
sudo docker-compose logs db

db_1 | chown: changing ownership of
`/var/lib/mysql/project/app_name.MYD': Permission denied
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docker-compose & selinux

[Nikos Roussos]

I use docker-compose extensively for local development. On F24 all I had
to do to make it play well with selinux was something like this:

sudo chcon -Rt svirt_sandbox_file_t project_folder

After updating to F25 this doesn't work anymore. Did something changed
on selinux policies (besides that label been renamed to
container_file_t) or I should file a bug?

Specifically I cannot start a mariadb container with compose.


On a related note, I opened a bug on our developer portal, since it
lacks any mention on SELinux
https://github.com/developer-portal/content/issues/163

~nikos



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Re: Orphaning git-cola

[Nikos Roussos]

On 05/05/2016 07:23 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am hereby orphaning the git-cola package. (I will be pushing the buttons 
> in pkgdb right after sending this message.) I simply do not have the time to 
> keep up with the upstream releases of this package anymore. (It is already 3 
> releases behind.)

I can take this. I use it daily and it's an essential part of my workflow.


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Re: GPG2 as default /usr/bin/gpg

[Nikos Roussos]

On February 17, 2016 6:04:04 PM GMT+02:00, Richard Hughes  
wrote:
>On 17 February 2016 at 15:51, Tomas Mraz  wrote:
>> The problem is that now the keystores are incompatible and it creates
>> big confusion to the users when they see some key in gnupg-1 and do
>not
>> see it in gnupg-2 and the other way around.
>
>If it helps, I lost about 2 hours the other day trying to work out why
>my keys were not visible when imported using gpgme. I'd be 100% behind
>the change to switch to gpg2 if it saves just one other person 2 hours
>of confusion

Same here. But all upstream documentation explicitly mentions gpg2. A change 
like this would probably make other people spend 2 hours of searching the 
"right" binary.
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Re: FedRTC.org SIP and XMPP service - help needed

[Nikos Roussos]

On Fri, Nov 13, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Daniel Pocock  
wrote:

Fedora Talk was based on Asterisk.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Asterisk
Asterisk has lots of great features (voicemail, queues, etc) but it is
mainly for voice, it emphasizes SIP and at the time it was also quite
bad with IPv6, TLS and NAT.  FedRTC.org is based on a SIP proxy, not
Asterisk.  SIP proxies (and XMPP servers) tend to have a much bigger
emphasis on connectivity and they also tend to have less features, so
they are easier to support.  The repro SIP proxy has exceptionally 
good

TLS and IPv6 support.  Asterisk is not really optimized for federation
but federation is quite easy with a SIP proxy because of the emphasis 
on

connectivity.


One thing that is not clear to me from the website, is it just for 1:1 
calls or can be used for video calls with more than two participants?



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Quick Review Request (owncloud-client)

[Nikos Roussos]

Hi,

I'd appreciate a quick* review on owncloud-client, so we can push the new 
version:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1202805


(*) It's an existing package that got renamed upstream, so it should fairly 
easy to be reviewed.

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Re: Firefox addon signing

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 6:30 AM, Michael Cronenworth  
wrote:
I'm sure those that need to know, know, but for those that haven't 
heard[1]
Mozilla's official Firefox build will enforce addons to contain a 
Mozilla signature

without any runtime option to disable the check.

Initially this prevents Fedora packaged addons since they are 
unsigned. The Mozilla
signing process takes time and can't be part of a package building 
process.


Is Fedora going to get authorization to build Firefox with a runtime 
disable option?


If the only way is to completely disable this feature, I'd prefer we 
don't.

I wouldn't like for us to ship a less secure build of Firefox.
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Re: firefox/vimeo

[Nikos Roussos]

On 01/13/2015 03:38 PM, Martin Stransky wrote:
> Please file a bug for that at bugzilla.redhat.com

Thanks for looking into this.

I opened the bug
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1181719


> On 01/12/2015 08:59 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>> I noticed that I'm unable to watch Vimeo videos with Firefox without
>> Flash plugin. Same is not true if I use the Firefox build from upstream.
>> Do we disable something on our build that may be responsible for such
>> behavior? Anyone else has the same problem?
>>
>> I even enabled h264 codec (although I know that this is just for
>> WebRTC), but nothing changed.



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firefox/vimeo

[Nikos Roussos]

I noticed that I'm unable to watch Vimeo videos with Firefox without
Flash plugin. Same is not true if I use the Firefox build from upstream.
Do we disable something on our build that may be responsible for such
behavior? Anyone else has the same problem?

I even enabled h264 codec (although I know that this is just for
WebRTC), but nothing changed.



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Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

[Nikos Roussos]

>Upon doing a yum
>upgrade, but rejecting the actual upgrade:
>
>[root@localhost cache]# du -sh *
>94M dnf
>446M PackageKit
>137M yum

Is it considered safe to uninstall yum on F21 and keep only dnf for cli package 
management?

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Re: Firefox webrtc support in F21?

[Nikos Roussos]

On 12/15/2014 10:14 AM, Martin Stransky wrote:
> There's also a good page about it:
> 
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OpenH264

If h264 is not mandatory for Hello to operate, we could enable it by
default by changing the loop:throttled option.




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Is ARM productized?

[Nikos Roussos]

Having some hard time to discover the ARM F21 image at the new website.
Is the link somewhere and I completely missed it?

I found the ARM images directly from the ftp
http://alt.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora/linux/releases/21/Images/armhfp/

But as a general question is ARM productized? Would it make sense to
have Workstation or Server images for ARM?



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Re: Other download options

[Nikos Roussos]

Speaking of F21 downloads, how is that the fedoraproject.org redirects
to getfedora.org? Is this something permanent?



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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/23/2014 06:50 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 4:17 AM, Nikos Roussos
>  wrote:
>> On 11/18/2014 08:24 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Nikos Roussos
>>>  wrote:
>>>> On 11/16/2014 08:24 PM, Christopher wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Mustafa Muhammad
>>>>> mailto:mustafaa.alhamda...@gmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This doesn't seem relevant to this discussion, unless Fedora browsers
>>>>> are automatically, and without the user's explicit knowledge or
>>>>> permission, navigating to Google's search engine, which (AFAICT) they
>>>>> are not.
>>>>
>>>> Same happens with these tiles. No data is sent back to Mozilla unless
>>>> you *choose* to click one of the promoted tiles.
>>>
>>> Even if not sent to Mozilla, it's accessible to the advertisers. I
>>> could spend a long time explaining the various means, that web
>>> advertisers track their users, ranging from crafting URL's and
>>> metadata about the particular requests to 'web bugs', those little one
>>> pixel transparent gifs so ubiquitous on the plethora of
>>> ad.doublelick.net websites with fake names used to collect the data.
>>
>> The tiles are coming from Mozilla. So yes please explain how the
>> advertisers can track me through them if I don't click them.
> 
> Much depends on what's in the tile. For example an embedded 1 pixel
> transparent gif, commonly known as a "web bug", and loaded from a
> third party web repository such as one of the many misleading aliases
> for ad.doubleclick.net, is one of the favorites. Another is crafting
> the URL used by the displayed advertising page to contain metadata
> about the browsing client. Unless the tiles are vetted by, hosted by,
> and have their content reviewed and manually sanitized by someone both
> paranoid and content over at Mozilla, it's safe to assume there is
> tracking information embedded in the tiles. The tracking information
> has become ubiquitous in far too much web content, especially in paid
> advertising content.
> 
> I'm afraid it's not reasonable to assume that just because Mozilla is
> providing the hooks to publish web ads that those web ads do not,
> themselves, collect and use personal user data, especially the client
> IP and browsing history.

You don't have to assume. Firefox is open source so you can just check
the code before spreading FUD.




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/19/2014 12:34 AM, Lars Seipel wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 11:15:33AM +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>>> No, actually we don't. We promote websites because we honestly think
>>> they're useful, not because we're paid to do so.
>>
>> That's irrelevant. Paid or not, promoting websites through tiles or
>> gnome-shell is the same form of advertisement.
> 
> I disagree. Think about it: imagine I told you as a friend how I was at
> some pub yesterday and enthusiastically rave about how it was totally
> awesome and that you should go there, too. Now, in the one case I told
> you this because I'm honestly convinced that it would be fun for you to
> go there and that you'd like it. In the other case I did it because the
> owner paid me for it. Really no difference? I don't think so.

From Fedora perspective there is no difference. What if an upstream
doesn't have public financial records. How we would we know if it gets
paid for promoting 3rd parties? Investigate? This is paranoid and
ridiculous.



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Re: Enable tapping by default

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 11:09 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Jiri Eischmann wrote:
>> If you're talking about Workstation, then you should probably propose it
>> to their working group on the desktop mailing list. The working groups
>> are supposed to do such decisions now.
>> If you're talking about one of other spins (KDE, Xfce,...), then you
>> should go to the respective SIG.
> 
> I disagree with that. It's a decision made at the driver level, it does not 
> make sense to override that per desktop environment.

It's a UX thing, so the Workstation WG seems like the best place to
decide this (at least for Gnome).




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 07:21 PM, drago01 wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 6:14 PM, Nikos Roussos
>  wrote:
>> On November 18, 2014 7:08:47 PM EET, Benjamin Kreuter 
>>  wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2014-11-18 at 15:12 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>>>
>>>> This is a moral judgment, so it's irrelevant for making a policy
>>>> decision (from Fedora's point of view). Money or not, we need a
>>>> consistent policy on advertisements for all upstream.
>>>
>>> How about an opt-in requirement?
>>
>> Yes, that would make more sense.
>> But I didn't opt-in to see commercial websites on gnome-shell either (and I 
>> can't even opt-out).
> 
> You can disable the search provider in Settings -> Search

I'll have to completely disable Software as search provider, which I
don't want to do. Unless I'm missing something.




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On November 18, 2014 7:08:47 PM EET, Benjamin Kreuter  
wrote:
>On Tue, 2014-11-18 at 15:12 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
>> This is a moral judgment, so it's irrelevant for making a policy
>> decision (from Fedora's point of view). Money or not, we need a
>> consistent policy on advertisements for all upstream.
>
>How about an opt-in requirement?

Yes, that would make more sense.
But I didn't opt-in to see commercial websites on gnome-shell either (and I 
can't even opt-out).

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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 02:55 PM, Benjamin Kreuter wrote:
> On Tue, 2014-11-18 at 11:15 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>>>> I'm talking about the "advertisement" part. Some people seem to be
>>>> bothered by this alone. Tiles feature indeed promotes some websites, but
>>>> we already do that.
>>>
>>> No, actually we don't. We promote websites because we honestly think
>>> they're useful, not because we're paid to do so.
>>
>> That's irrelevant. Paid or not, promoting websites through tiles or
>> gnome-shell is the same form of advertisement.
> 
> Money is not irrelevant.  Paid advertising is how we wound up with
> pop-ups, hover ads, etc.  The question is whether or not we can trust
> Mozilla to steer clear of such things.  So far there seems to be no
> reason to trust Mozilla -- the ads are opt-out, they only sometimes
> respect DNT, and they are being pushed despite the backlash from
> Mozilla's community.

This is a moral judgment, so it's irrelevant for making a policy
decision (from Fedora's point of view). Money or not, we need a
consistent policy on advertisements for all upstream.



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Re: Enable tapping by default

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 11:29 AM, Les Howell wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-11-17 at 15:50 +0100, Björn Persson wrote:
>> drago01  wrote:
>>> Things are not black and white there is a "disable touchpad while typing"  
>>> option which would solve your problem while not making the impression that
>>> something is broken like it is now.
>>
>> Possibly, but there is also the risk of accidentally tapping when you
>> only want to move the pointer but your finger happens to tremble a
>> little. (That's not about Parkinson's disease. Even to perfectly healthy
>> people it's difficult to hold absolutely still.)
>>
>> Does anyone care to present some evidence showing that this works well
>> for people in general? Note that I'm not against changing this default.
>> I'm against changing it based on nothing but a baseless belief that it
>> won't bother people.
>>
>> Björn Persson
> 
> I have dry fingers... All the time.  Tap to click drives me insane, as
> well as some of the socalled gesture enhancements.  Capacitive screens
> also go nuts because dry fingers generate more static electricity and
> many devices simply do not have sufficient hysterysis to manage to
> differentiate close to touch, or static from real contact. 

You don't have to convince anyone that tapping is annoying :) I also
find it annoying and disable it. The question is what should be the
default for Workstation's target audience. It's not easy to answer,
because we don't have any metrics. So we just assume what most users
would expect from their touchpad.



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Re: Enable tapping by default

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 06:55 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:16:26AM +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>> On 11/18/2014 12:12 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
>>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 02:27:53PM +0300, Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
>>>> Hi, I am testing Fedora 21 beta and -like all previous versions- click
>>>> by tapping is off by default.
>>>> Several bug reports concerning this were closed as NOTABUG, but
>>>> tapping is useful for us (people who use it), I don't think it bothers
>>>> the others that much, and is on by default in most operating systems
>>>> and Linux distributions.
>>>>
>>>> What can we do to make this happen?
>>>
>>> This comes up every couple of versions, so here is the reasoning for
>>> disabled by default:
>>>
>>> * if you don't know that tapping is a thing (or enabled by default), you get
>>>   spurious button events that make the desktop feel buggy.
>>> * if you do know what tapping is and you want it, you usually know where to
>>>   enable it, or at least you can search for it.
>>
>> Well, in practice most users just think it's broken.
> 
> and you have references for "most"?

Based on my experience from events (as an ambassador). We all assuming
here. Do you have reference that "most" users will know where to look?




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 08:24 AM, Nico Kadel-Garcia wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Nikos Roussos
>  wrote:
>> On 11/16/2014 08:24 PM, Christopher wrote:
>>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Mustafa Muhammad
>>> mailto:mustafaa.alhamda...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
> 
>>> This doesn't seem relevant to this discussion, unless Fedora browsers
>>> are automatically, and without the user's explicit knowledge or
>>> permission, navigating to Google's search engine, which (AFAICT) they
>>> are not.
>>
>> Same happens with these tiles. No data is sent back to Mozilla unless
>> you *choose* to click one of the promoted tiles.
> 
> Even if not sent to Mozilla, it's accessible to the advertisers. I
> could spend a long time explaining the various means, that web
> advertisers track their users, ranging from crafting URL's and
> metadata about the particular requests to 'web bugs', those little one
> pixel transparent gifs so ubiquitous on the plethora of
> ad.doublelick.net websites with fake names used to collect the data.

The tiles are coming from Mozilla. So yes please explain how the
advertisers can track me through them if I don't click them.




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

>> I'm talking about the "advertisement" part. Some people seem to be
>> bothered by this alone. Tiles feature indeed promotes some websites, but
>> we already do that.
> 
> No, actually we don't. We promote websites because we honestly think
> they're useful, not because we're paid to do so.

That's irrelevant. Paid or not, promoting websites through tiles or
gnome-shell is the same form of advertisement.



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Re: Enable tapping by default

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/18/2014 12:12 AM, Peter Hutterer wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 02:27:53PM +0300, Mustafa Muhammad wrote:
>> Hi, I am testing Fedora 21 beta and -like all previous versions- click
>> by tapping is off by default.
>> Several bug reports concerning this were closed as NOTABUG, but
>> tapping is useful for us (people who use it), I don't think it bothers
>> the others that much, and is on by default in most operating systems
>> and Linux distributions.
>>
>> What can we do to make this happen?
> 
> This comes up every couple of versions, so here is the reasoning for
> disabled by default:
> 
> * if you don't know that tapping is a thing (or enabled by default), you get
>   spurious button events that make the desktop feel buggy.
> * if you do know what tapping is and you want it, you usually know where to
>   enable it, or at least you can search for it.

Well, in practice most users just think it's broken.

You forgot one case though.

* If you know what tapping is and you don't want it (enabled by
default), you know where to go to disable it.




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Re: Enable tapping by default

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/17/2014 01:49 PM, Björn Persson wrote:
> Mustafa Muhammad  wrote:
>> Hi, I am testing Fedora 21 beta and -like all previous versions- click
>> by tapping is off by default.
>> Several bug reports concerning this were closed as NOTABUG, but
>> tapping is useful for us (people who use it), I don't think it bothers
>> the others that much, and is on by default in most operating systems
>> and Linux distributions.
>>
>> What can we do to make this happen?
> 
> Perhaps demonstrate that it won't cause the rest of us to click on
> random things by accident, instead of just thinking so?

Although I also never user 'tap to click' I think most users expect this
to work by default.




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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/17/2014 11:47 AM, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-11-17 at 11:37 +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>> I don't consider my IP address a call to home. [...] Even Gnome checks my
>> IP's location to fix my timezone.
> 
> Not by default, you have to enable this explicitly.

True, as you also have to explicitly click a tile to send data to
Mozilla. But the main point here was that your IP (the only thing
Firefox gets before you click anything) is not sensitive data.

>>> Second, a user can easily accidentally click on ad, since it is mixed
>>> among other tiles, with the user's browsing habits. 
>>
>> And a user may accidentally start searching on the Google search box
>> before she realizes that she sends data to Google "as she types" (that's
>> how you get recommendations).
> 
> Indeed, this is in Firefox though, which is the application people are
> saying they'd like to change, so it stops doing that without explicit
> user opt-in.

No. We are talking about the tiles. I didn't see anyone suggesting we
remove Google search. It's like the tiles feature crossed a line, which
is far from truth.

>> Again, this thing we discuss is already happening on Gnome Shell. Type
>> "twitter" on your Gnome's search box.
> 
> I'm pretty confident that no network query is done when you search for
> that, and that instead GNOME Software searches in its local metadata
> cache.

I'm talking about the "advertisement" part. Some people seem to be
bothered by this alone. Tiles feature indeed promotes some websites, but
we already do that.

> All examples you have given of such opt-out network calls are either in
> Firefox or incorrect.
> 
> So maybe there is a need to change something in the Firefox default
> configuration after all? :)

I'm not much in favor of that, since that's the way this open source
project gets revenues, but that could be indeed a first step. And I
don't think we'll have any problems with the branding. But changing
default browser is a totally different discussion.






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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

> > This doesn't seem relevant to this discussion, unless Fedora browsers
> > are automatically, and without the user's explicit knowledge or
> > permission, navigating to Google's search engine, which (AFAICT) they
> > are not.
> 
> Same happens with these tiles. No data is sent back to Mozilla unless
> you *choose* to click one of the promoted tiles.
> 
> 
> 
> First, that's not quite true. Firefox does a call home first, where
> Mozilla will then determine your location from your IP (and possibly
> other data presented to them in the future), in order to present you
> with ads. As I understand it, it will do this the first time you open a
> new tab, before you even navigate to any site (such as about:config).

I don't consider my IP address a call to home. Every website you visit
records your IP, so it's hardly sensitive data. Even Gnome checks my
IP's location to fix my timezone.

> Second, a user can easily accidentally click on ad, since it is mixed
> among other tiles, with the user's browsing habits. 

And a user may accidentally start searching on the Google search box
before she realizes that she sends data to Google "as she types" (that's
how you get recommendations).

Again, this thing we discuss is already happening on Gnome Shell. Type
"twitter" on your Gnome's search box. And I don't think there is a way
currently to disable this. So please get your facts straight before
start suggesting we change default browser.



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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On 11/16/2014 08:24 PM, Christopher wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Mustafa Muhammad
> mailto:mustafaa.alhamda...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:25 PM, Lars Seipel  > wrote:
> > So Mozilla has recently gone live with its advertisement tiles on the
> > "New Tab" page. Only newly created profiles get to see this stuff.
> >
> > On a pristine F21 install using Gnome, when first launching Firefox,
> > users are presented with a number of tiles, depending on screen size.
> > One of those is a so-called "sponsored" tile chosen from a range of
> > available advertisements (e.g. for booking.com
> , there's also one for the
> > Snowden movie), apparently depending on geographical location.
> >
> > When this "feature" got originally announced[1], there was a
> discussion
> > on -devel if this kind of stuff is really appropriate for Fedora.
> >
> > Some time later Mozilla seemed to have canceled the feature, quoting
> > "That’s not going to happen. That’s not who we are at Mozilla." as one
> > of the reasons[2].
> >
> > Apparently, they (again) reconsidered, pushing the feature to
> nightlies
> > a few months ago. Well, it now hit the stable branch and, therefore,
> > Fedora.
> >
> > This is how Mozilla pitches the feature to advertisers[3]:
> >
> >> To support ad personalization, Mozilla created an internal data
> system
> >> that aggregates user information while stripping out personally
> >> identifiable information. Mozilla can track impressions, clicks,
> and the
> >> number of ads a user hides or pins. Its advertising partners are also
> >> privy to that data.
> >
> > Personally, I don't think that showing advertisements on the free
> > software desktop is appropriate. Our users are supposed to be able to
> > fully trust our software. That's one of our most-often touted
> strenghts.
> > I don't think the ability to "track impressions, clicks, and the
> number
> > of ads a user hides or pins" is something that is compatible with
> that,
> > regardless of this data being tied to "personally identifiable
> > information" or not.
> >
> > Firefox's behaviour is probably nothing extraordinary on the other
> > platforms Mozilla is targeting. Compared to the prevalent attitude of
> > proprietary vendors, especially on mobile, it doesn't sound that bad
> > anymore. I don't think that's a suitable scale for Fedora, though.
> >
> > From a user perspective, it's not that hard to disable the
> feature. Upon
> > first seeing that page a tooltip is shown to hint at the possibility.
> > Users can choose between three modes, "Enhanced", "Classic" and
> "Blank".
> > Contrary to what is stated in the Mozilla kb[4], the only one that
> > actually disables the ads is "Blank", which is equal to setting
> the new
> > tab page to about:blank.
> >
> > What does the community think of it? Is it okay for our flagship
> > applications to carry ads and report tracking data?
> >
> > [1]
> >
> 
> https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/11/publisher-transformation-with-users-at-the-center/
> > [2]
> >
> https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2014/05/09/new-tab-experiments/
> > [3]
> >
> 
> http://www.adexchanger.com/online-advertising/mozilla-finally-releases-its-browser-ad-product-hints-at-programmatic-in-2015/
> > [4]
> >
> 
> https://support.mozilla.org/de/kb/how-do-tiles-work-firefox#w_enhanced-tiles
> > --
> > devel mailing list
> > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org 
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> > Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
> 
> The "ads" are not intrusive, they don't collect personally
> identifiable data, and can be disabled with a selection from a button
> on the start page!
> See:
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2848017/how-to-get-rid-of-firefoxs-new-ads-on-the-new-tab-page.html
> 
> I think the best way is to ship Firefox as is, if somebody doesn't
> want to help the open source project generating some revenue using
> these ads, he can disable them.
> 
> 
> The framing of the concerns expressed here as people not wanting to
> contribute back and help an open source project with revenue (through
> this mechanism or otherwise), does not reflect the concerns raised. The
> concerns raised are that the default configuration is an "opt-out" vs.
> "opt-in" model of Firefox issuing network calls back to Mozilla's
> servers, and Fedora's user base expects "opt-in" for these sorts of
> things. It's not about not being willing to help the project out... it's
> about not being able to vet that method

Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On November 15, 2014 5:51:28 PM EET, Michael Catanzaro  
wrote:
>On Sat, 2014-11-15 at 15:06 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote:
>> IMHO, we should consider dropping Firefox from Fedora entirely
>
>Showing ads does not make Firefox nonfree. The only reason we should
>completely remove Firefox from Fedora is if it starts shipping nonfree
>or patent-encumbered code -- like the Cisco binary that just recently
>got removed, or that EME module from Adobe that they're planning to
>include -- in such a way that is difficult or impossible to strip out.

There is no EME module. There is EME, which is what Firefox will ship (and it's 
of course open source) and the CDM module, which will be user's choice to 
install it or not (like Adobe Flash today).


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Re: Mozilla enabled ads in Firefox and they're active in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

> What does the community think of it? Is it okay for our flagship
> applications to carry ads and report tracking data?

If I search 'twitter' on Gnome Shell I'm prompted with twitter.com. So
whatever decision we make for ads let's make sure we are consistent.




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Re: Orphaning Packages / Looking for Maintainers

[Nikos Roussos]

On 09/27/2014 07:13 PM, Sebastian Dziallas wrote:
> * python-oauth

I can take this




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Re: future contributions and package updates jmarrero

[Nikos Roussos]

Hi Joseph,

On Wed, 2014-06-25 at 22:22 -0400, Joseph Marrero wrote:
> Hello,
> My FAS is : jmarrero
> I can not update any of my packages for the time being, will know If I can 
> continue contributing in about a month. I can pass the ownership to who ever 
> wants to maintain the packages I currently own or we can share ownerships if 
> I can still contributing. But will not know my status until august 1st is my 
> best guess.
> The packages I maintain are:
> Fedora:

I would be glad to co-maintain these two:

> mirall
> owncloud-csync



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Re: The Forgotten "F": A Tale of Fedora's Foundations

[Nikos Roussos]

On Tue, 2014-04-22 at 06:46 -0400, Christian Schaller wrote:
> - Original Message -
> > From: "Nikos Roussos" 
> 
> > There is also a third group, somewhere in between, who believe that's ok
> > to ship Free Software that connects and interops with proprietary
> > services (gtalk, aws, etc), but it's not ok to ship proprietary
> > software, metadata about proprietary software or advertise proprietary
> > services through our main UI tools.
> > 
> > You should also keep in mind that "Functional" is very subjective and I
> > don't see how it can walk through such debates. People will still align
> > the "Functional" foundation to align with their point of view ;)
> > 
> So this group believes it is ok to ship an open source twitter client in 
> Fedora as long
> as the client doesn't know how to connect to twitter or has any metadata 
> mentioning it can
> be used to connect to twitter? ;)

With "metadata about proprietary software" I mean metadata used to
*install* proprietary software.


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Re: The Forgotten "F": A Tale of Fedora's Foundations

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, 2014-04-21 at 08:36 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
> The language in this Foundation is sometimes dangerously unclear. For
> example, it pretty much explicitly forbids the use of non-free
> components in the creation of Fedora (sorry, folks: you can't use
> Photoshop to create your package icon!). At the same time, we
> regularly allow the packaging of software that can interoperate with
> non-free software; we allow Pidgin and other IM clients to talk to
> Google and AOL, we allow email clients to connect to Microsoft
> Exchange, etc. The real problem is that every time a question comes up
> against the Freedom Foundation, Fedora contributors diverge into two
> armed camps: the hard-liners who believe that Fedora should never
> under any circumstances work (interoperate) with proprietary services
> and the the folks who believe that such a hard-line approach is a path
> to irrelevance.

There is also a third group, somewhere in between, who believe that's ok
to ship Free Software that connects and interops with proprietary
services (gtalk, aws, etc), but it's not ok to ship proprietary
software, metadata about proprietary software or advertise proprietary
services through our main UI tools.

You should also keep in mind that "Functional" is very subjective and I
don't see how it can walk through such debates. People will still align
the "Functional" foundation to align with their point of view ;)



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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 17:39 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Jeu 13 février 2014 15:47, Nikos Roussos a écrit :
> > On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 15:28 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >> Le Mer 12 février 2014 17:20, Nikos Roussos a écrit :
> >>
> >> > The "New Tab" feature will provide quick access to popular sites in
> >> the
> >> > users location, without any collection of personal data (except of
> >> > course from checking the location of his IP). At lease this is the
> >> > current design by Mozilla.
> >>
> >> And that opens the door to tracking hell.
> >
> > How is that? I don't the feature either but it has nothing to do with
> > tracking.
> 
> As soon as you start doing ad selection based on any processing of the
> user context (location, past history, whatever) you are in data mining,
> privacy invasion and tracker land.

As long as you start browsing and create "browsing history" you'll never
see these promotions again. You assume things that Mozilla explicitly
says that this feature won't do.


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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:23 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 16:47:38 +0200,
>    Nikos Roussos  wrote:
> >On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 15:28 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> >> Le Mer 12 février 2014 17:20, Nikos Roussos a écrit :
> >>
> >> > The "New Tab" feature will provide quick access to popular sites in the
> >> > users location, without any collection of personal data (except of
> >> > course from checking the location of his IP). At lease this is the
> >> > current design by Mozilla.
> >>
> >> And that opens the door to tracking hell.
> >
> >How is that? I don't the feature either but it has nothing to do with
> >tracking.
> 
> The fact that the package is calling home (whether or not the location 
> of the IP is checked), is a form of tracking. Particularly since firefox 
> updates are being handled by Fedora and there is no need for our version 
> to be calling home to check for updates.

*If* it calls home. If this is a predefined list bundled with firefox
there is no reason to call home. 




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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On February 13, 2014 6:04:01 PM EET, "Richard W.M. Jones"  
wrote:
>On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 03:36:00PM +0100, Kai Engert wrote:
>> Question (2) 
>> 
>> Is the Fedora community willing to accept Mozilla's desire to show
>> advertisements in Firefox?
>
>Sub-question (2b):
>
>Why do we care about using the Firefox trademark?  We should just
>rename the package.  Debian do that and it hasn't hurt them.  It makes
>the software more free because we don't have to beg someone to be able
>to make changes.
>
>Rich.
>
>-- 
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>http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
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Because people will keep looking for Firefox at the Software app. I don't think 
we have to change the name if we just turn off a feature. Same way we alter the 
default homepage all these years.

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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 15:28 +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> Le Mer 12 février 2014 17:20, Nikos Roussos a écrit :
> 
> > The "New Tab" feature will provide quick access to popular sites in the
> > users location, without any collection of personal data (except of
> > course from checking the location of his IP). At lease this is the
> > current design by Mozilla.
> 
> And that opens the door to tracking hell.

How is that? I don't the feature either but it has nothing to do with
tracking.

https://blog.lizardwrangler.com/2014/02/13/content-ads-caution/



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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 10:32 -0600, Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 18:25:48 +0200,
>    Nikos Roussos  wrote:
> >On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 16:58 +0100, H. Guémar wrote:
> >> My *personal* opinion is that we should disable this kind of feature
> >> by default.
> >
> >On a side note, why not disable also Google as the default searchbox
> >engine and replace it with a non-profit one?
> >
> >(I'm not stating my opinion here, just trying to figure which is our
> >overall attitude against promoted default brands on software we deliver
> >to users.)
> 
> I think the difference is that google search isn't used until you actually 
> do a search. So you can not use it fairly easily. Connecting to web pages 
> before you get a chance to disable that feature is a privacy problem unless 
> those web pages are local copies. 

You don't connect to these pages. You just see their logos. I don't know
yet if that would be a local copy or not.



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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 16:58 +0100, H. Guémar wrote:
> My *personal* opinion is that we should disable this kind of feature
> by default.

On a side note, why not disable also Google as the default searchbox
engine and replace it with a non-profit one?

(I'm not stating my opinion here, just trying to figure which is our
overall attitude against promoted default brands on software we deliver
to users.)



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Re: advertisement in packaged software (e.g. Firefox)

[Nikos Roussos]

On Wed, 2014-02-12 at 16:47 +0100, Petr Viktorin wrote:
> On 02/12/2014 04:31 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Are we allowed to ship software in Fedora that dynamically loads
> >>> advertisements from the web and shows them to users?
> >>
> >> I think "allowed" is probably the wrong term to use here. Fedora
> >> packaging rules on what is allowed to be included have pretty much
> >> focused on legality of packages. ie licensing, trademarks, patents,
> >> etc. The question of whether advertisements are "allowed" is starting
> >> to venture into the grounds of philosophy. There's probably also a
> >> privacy question to answer here too. To me though, those aren't
> >> criteria for forbidding software from Fedora entirely, but are
> >> relevant when choosing whether a piece of software is set as the
> >> default option installed for users.
> >
> > Yeah, I agree. This is not about being allowed to, but the question is
> > whether we want to. And for that, the question probably is: it depends.
> >
> > I can't imagine having very obnoxious and prominents advertisements in
> > the flagship applications that we install by default. But an application
> > that is otherwise useful to our users should probably not be banned from
> > the package universe just because it downloads an ad.
> 
> If that ad enables tracking users, or is obnoxious in any way, the 
> software should be modified to not include the ad.

The "New Tab" feature will provide quick access to popular sites in the
users location, without any collection of personal data (except of
course from checking the location of his IP). At lease this is the
current design by Mozilla.

https://twitter.com/clarkbw/status/43066514198528

~nikos




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Re: Fedora.next in 2014 -- Big Picture and Themes

[Nikos Roussos]

Thorsten Leemhuis  wrote:
>On 25.01.2014 17:35, Adam Williamson wrote:
>> On Sat, 2014-01-25 at 11:20 +0100, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
>> 
>>> Debian, who has a similar stance on
>>> non-free Software, does a way better job in that area than Fedora
>does.
>> Well, not really - they don't have a 'similar stance', they have an
>> official non-free repository. That's kind of a significant
>> difference. :)
>
>Ha, Debian and Fedora, the distributions, are imo not that different
>after a standard install (but yes, there are differences as well -
>patents strategy, Firmware). But yes, you are right, the Debian project
>has a a official non-free repository, which is a significant difference
>to the Fedora project. One that leads to a better user experience;
>something that afics a lot of Fedora users and some Fedoraproject
>developers want to see as well.

Let's avoid personal examples. I also know many users and Fedora contributors
that respect Fedora's foundations and would probably leave Fedora if these were 
to change. 

> That's why I think it would be good if
>the the Fedora project might help/guide in that are, even if the
>resulting repo and the main work is done outside of the Fedora project.

I agree with guidance. I don't think anyone would object to help them, 
so that *they* can ship their software for Fedora in a more UX friendly way. 

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Re: The official way to upgrade F18 to F19

[Nikos Roussos]

Stephen Gallagher  wrote:
>On 05/29/2013 08:48 AM, Dario Lesca wrote:
>> What is the official way to upgrade F18 to F19 (for now beta)? I
>> would do some test.. Thanks
>> 
>
>http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedUp#How_Can_I_Upgrade_My_System_with_FedUp.3F

Is there any plan currently for a GUI frontend for FedUp? 

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Review Request: webkit-sharp

[Nikos Roussos]

Hi,

I need a review for webkit-sharp:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=928330

this package was wrongly deprecated:
http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/webkit-sharp.git/tree/dead.package
since it's a dependency for sparkleshare

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Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Cinnamon as Default Desktop

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, 2013-01-28 at 00:10 -0800, Dan Mashal wrote:

> 
> 
> On Monday, January 28, 2013, Nikos Roussos wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 2013-01-27 at 14:53 +, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> > The Gnome 3 interface is substantially different that the
> traditional desktop
> > interfaces on both Linux and Windows.
> 
> At least for Windows 8, neither Cinnamon is close to its
> desktop
> interface.
> 
> > While it is good that there is research
> > into new user interface concepts, many users prefer to have
> a traditional
> > interface that they are accustomed to. Unfortunately it is
> difficult or
> > impossible to assess what fraction of the user base prefers
> Gnome Shell vs. a
> > more traditional interface.
> 
> Exactly. There is no way to know that. So I see no real reason
> to change
> our default desktop.
> Even if we consider Gnome 3 as a "research" (which I don't),
>     Fedora is
> known to adopt innovative technologies.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Innovative.
> 
> 
> "Innovative" or "deevolutionary", "boring", or just plain "annoying"?
> They can all be used in different ways. What you might consider
> "innovative" a lot of people consider annoying.


True. Or others might consider it productive. Same goes for all Desktop
environments. That's why I said that I see no real argument here for
changing our default desktop.

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Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Cinnamon as Default Desktop

[Nikos Roussos]

On Sun, 2013-01-27 at 14:53 +, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
> The Gnome 3 interface is substantially different that the traditional desktop 
> interfaces on both Linux and Windows.

At least for Windows 8, neither Cinnamon is close to its desktop
interface.

> While it is good that there is research 
> into new user interface concepts, many users prefer to have a traditional 
> interface that they are accustomed to. Unfortunately it is difficult or 
> impossible to assess what fraction of the user base prefers Gnome Shell vs. a 
> more traditional interface.

Exactly. There is no way to know that. So I see no real reason to change
our default desktop.
Even if we consider Gnome 3 as a "research" (which I don't), Fedora is
known to adopt innovative technologies.


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Fosdem Cross-Distro devroom

[Nikos Roussos]

Just an update about Fosdem.

The dealing for talk submissions at the Cross Distro Devroom got 
extended until the end of the year [1].


I have already submitted a talk [2], but I think it's the only Fedora 
related. So anyone interested on doing a presentation, now it's the time 
to propose it :)



[1] 
https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/distributions/2012-December/000169.html
[2] 
https://lists.fosdem.org/pipermail/distributions/2012-December/000160.html

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Re: forked library

[Nikos Roussos]

On Fri, 2012-11-30 at 20:16 +, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 30, 2012 at 09:07:34PM +0200, Nikos Roussos wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I maintain IDJC [1], which depends on libshout. The latest version
> > though depends on libshout-idjc a fork of the original library, since
> > the idjc upstream developer wanted some extra functionality on libshout
> > and didn't want to wait for libshout upstream to adopt his changes.
> > 
> > I've read the relevant documentation [2] but I'm not sure what's the
> > best way to proceed. The good thing that he doesn't bundle his version
> > of libshout, but instead he has made it a separate release [3], which
> > could also be packaged for Fedora. But a fork is a fork.
> > 
> > Should I just make a request for exception and package the forked
> > library or should the package be orphaned?
> > 
> > [1] https://apps.fedoraproject.org/packages/idjc
> > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:No_Bundled_Libraries
> > [3] http://sourceforge.net/projects/idjc/files/
> 
> How likely is it that the changes would go back into libshout?  Is the
> maintainer of IDJC pushing them?  Is the libshout maintainer
> interested in them?

After discussing it with the developer it seems that some of his changes
include support for non-free codecs (eg. AAC). So the best solution I
can think of is to orphan the package and then move it along with
libshout-idjc to RPMFusion.

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Re: Rolling release model philosophy (was Re: Anaconda is totally trashing the F18 schedule (was Re: f18: how to install into a LVM partitions (or RAID)))

[Nikos Roussos]

Tom Lane  wrote:
>Simon Lukasik  writes:
>> Currently, each Fedora release is kept alive for 13(+/-) months.
>There
>> were dozens of threads about shortening or prolonging period -- but I
>am
>> not sure if something like the following has been ever discussed:
>
>> Each N-th Fedora release -- where N%3==1 -- is alive for 7 months.
>> Each N-th Fedora release -- where N%3==2 -- is alive for 7 months.
>> Each N-th Fedora release -- where N%3==0 -- is alive for 19 months.
>
>> Additionally, maintainers might be encouraged to push their system
>wide
>> changes into N%3==1. As well as they might be encouraged to make the
>> Fedora N%3==0 their best bread.
>
>Wouldn't that just encourage 99% of average users to ignore the
>short-lived releases?  It would sure be a damn tempting approach for
>me.
>(Personally, all I want out of Fedora is a stable platform to get my
>work done on, and the less often I have to reinstall, the better.)

99% is an overestimation. Personally I would prefer to update every 6 months 
just to have all the latest stuff, but if I support an organization with many 
Fedora installations I would choose the  N%3==0 release, which would provide me 
only security updates after 7 months.

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Re: Rolling release model philosophy (was Re: Anaconda is totally trashing the F18 schedule (was Re: f18: how to install into a LVM partitions (or RAID)))

[Nikos Roussos]

Adam Williamson  wrote:
>On Sat, 2012-11-03 at 09:37 -0200, Henrique Junior wrote:
>
>> The guys behind openSUSE created a good approach with Tumbleweed. By
>> adding this repo users can opt-in to the (semi)rolling model.
>> Tumbleweed is more like a pool where updated, stable, non disruptive
>> software can be installed and I was able to talk to the guy who
>> created Tumbleweed some time ago. He said that it is easy to maintain
>> and takes only a few minutes a day to check things.
>> It is difficult, for example, to understand why we have to wait until
>> the next release to have LibreOffice 3.6, since this seems an non
>> disruptive update that could bring major improvements in the
>> productivity of users who rely on office suites to work.
>
>I don't think that *adding* tracks is an approach that is going to
>solve
>any of our problems, though it might add convenience for a small set of
>users. We need to be making things simpler, not more complex. :)

And in many cases it's simpler to have security updates for an LTS Fedora 
version than upgrading X workstations every 6 or 12 months.

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Re: Rolling release model philosophy (was Re: Anaconda is totally trashing the F18 schedule (was Re: f18: how to install into a LVM partitions (or RAID)))

[Nikos Roussos]

On Fri, 2012-11-02 at 13:22 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:

> > I disagree with that. Fedora releases had some small regression
> > introduced via updates from time but is is *very* usable as a stable
> > operating system.
> 
> I disagree. It's usable by the kind of people who use Fedora. Who like
> shiny cutting-edge stuff and don't mind dealing with wonkiness
> constantly.

I mind. So do many Fedora users and contributors, who want a shiny
*stable* leading edge (not bleeding edge) linux distribution.


> I wouldn't dream of putting any regular person on a Fedora
> install, quite frankly. It's easy to get into a perspective bubble where
> Fedora looks normal, but it isn't. It is not a stable general-purpose
> operating system and it's absurd to represent it as such.

I understand that "regular users" are not Fedora's main target, but it
is a general-purpose operating system in the sense that it can be used
by people who want to have a stable working environment with all the
latest things from the Open Source world.

In that sense, and from my point of view, if we had to rethink our
release model and dedicate time and energy on a new approach, it would
make more sense to have an extended support release (providing only
security updates after 13 months) which is vital for the enterprise
desktop market. Of course this is not in contradiction with having a
rolling release model alongside, but I didn't know if we have enough
human capacity to do them both.

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Re: 3D printing in Fedora

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, 2012-10-29 at 18:59 +0100, Miro Hrončok wrote:
> I am currently working on adding this software to Fedora:
> https://github.com/hroncok/SPECS/

This is great! I would try to help on that. We have a Makerbot and soon
a RepRap at the local Hackerspace we can use for testing, and an
Ultimaker at the organization I work.

I would suggest we expand this effort to Fabrication in general, not
just 3D printing, and see available Free Software not yet packaged for
Fedora that can be useful for Fablabs (for instance: LinuxCNC).



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Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, 2012-10-08 at 16:49 +0200, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

> On 10/08/2012 10:49 AM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
> > Reindl Harald píše v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200:
> >> Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01:
> >>> Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result
> >>> into this "old mother" type of user consider to use fedora.
> >>> A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
> >>> Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
> >>> We should lead here like we do in other areas.
> >>
> >> why do we need to lead everywehre for every price?
> >>
>  It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, 
>  the
>  greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared 
>  to
>  other Linuxes or other os'es.
> >>>
> >>> Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it
> >>> will become harder to achieve anything else.
> >>
> >> nobody says "without users"
> >> but do we really need every noob as user?
> >
> > Why does some of us imply it's about noobs?
> Because hardly any of the non-noobs misses this "Software Center" and 
> because non-noobs know that the term "apps" is an Apple/Google marketing 
> hype?


User experience is important for everyone. Not just noobs.
And currently Fedora is certainly not "first" when it comes on
Applications installation user experience.


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Re: Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?

[Nikos Roussos]

drago01  wrote:
>A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
>Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
>We should lead here like we do in other areas.

+1
I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of course 
from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing infrastructure 
team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO first?


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Re: Packages in need of new maintainers

[Nikos Roussos]

Przemek Klosowski  wrote:
>On 10/03/2012 02:23 PM, Jon Ciesla wrote:
>> As a result of FESCO ticket 952*, Lubomir Rintel's 200+ packages are
>> in need of new maintainers.  Under normal circumstances we'd simply
>> orphan them all, but given the large number we want to handle this in
>> a more orderly fashion.
>>
>> Please reply to the list with any requests for ownership changes, and
>> I'll complete them on a first-come, first-served basis
>
>Could you do an updated list of packages that are still looking for 
>owners? I would sign up for sdcc. My FAS username is przemekklosowski

You can check the list here:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/users/packages/lkundrak?acls=owner

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Re: Packages in need of new maintainers

[Nikos Roussos]

I would also like to take this one:

skyviewer -- Program to display HEALPix-based skymaps in FITS files
(but just the Fedora branches)

FAS: comzeradd

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Re: Packages in need of new maintainers

[Nikos Roussos]

On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 13:23 -0500, Jon Ciesla wrote: 

> Please reply to the list with any requests for ownership changes, and
> I'll complete them on a first-come, first-served basis.


I can take this:
openclipart -- Open Clip Art Library

fas: comzeradd


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Re: twolame - legal

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, 2012-08-16 at 09:47 -0400, Tom Callaway wrote:

> On 08/16/2012 05:27 AM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
> > I happened to notice that twolame is currently on rpmfusion. Is there a
> > legal reason for that?
> > 
> > twolame is an MP2 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer II) encoder (not mp3), which seems
> > to be a free (as free of patents) codec. There was a similar discussion
> > on Debian and they concluded that it's ok to have it on the official repos.
> > http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=419597
> 
> Unfortunately, yes, this is legally blocked in Fedora at this time.

Yes, I assumed so. I'm mostly asking why, because it seems that there is
no patent infringement issue with twolame.

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twolame - legal

[Nikos Roussos]

I happened to notice that twolame is currently on rpmfusion. Is there a
legal reason for that?

twolame is an MP2 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer II) encoder (not mp3), which seems
to be a free (as free of patents) codec. There was a similar discussion
on Debian and they concluded that it's ok to have it on the official
repos.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=419597

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Re: How can we make F17 be able to boot on Macs (with or without reFit)

[Nikos Roussos]

Some feedback from a succefull installation of F17 TC4 on a Macbook Air 13"
(Model number A1369). Unfortunately the TC5 didn't boot. For TC4 we had to
change label grub option to LIVE in order to boot. Is this a typo?

Anaconda worked just fine and installation was completed succefully. Only
thing didn't work as expected is that grub overwrited OsX bootloader but
didn't create an OsX menu entry. We manually had to add a chainloader menu
entry for /usr/share/standalone/i386/boot.efi

Other than that everything seems to work great.
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Re: GPT

[Nikos Roussos]

On Apr 23, 2012 1:12 AM, "Chris Murphy"  wrote:
>
> On Apr 22, 2012, at 2:55 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
> > I already have a GPT partition (from my previous installation), but
> > Anaconda complains that my boot partition should be of type msdos. The
> > only way to proceed seems to be discarding all partitions and creating
> > an msdos partition table.
>
> Well that's kinda unfortunate behavior. I think the blacklist should
cause just "Use All Space" to force a new or existing GPT to be MBR. But
really, I've advocated the exact opposite you are, which is I think BIOS
hardware with disks < 2TB should default to MBR, not GPT. There's minimal
advantage, and more trouble.
>
> However, if you're really committed to GPT, convert the MBR to GPT using
gdisk after the fact. I suggest custom partitioning to reserve 1MB
unallocated. Post install, gdisk to add a BIOS Boot partition, gdisk type
code 0xEF02. Then when you reinstall GRUB2, it will automatically stuff
core.img in it.

Well.. considering that I have no special reason to want GPT, I guess it's
easier to go with the Msdos partition table. It's just that it surprises me
that there is no obvious way to override the default Anaconda behaviour
within the installation DVD, since my laptop supports GPT.

My previous installation, where GPT worked just fine, was done with F16
Beta, so maybe at the time Lenovos were not blacklisted yet.
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Re: GPT

[Nikos Roussos]

On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 8:20 PM, Chris Murphy  wrote:
> On Apr 22, 2012, at 11:04 AM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
> It's a lenovo thinkpad (edge). I remember a bug about some thinkpad models
> having problem with gpt, but it would seem to me as an extreme action if all
> lenovo models were blacklisted. Gpt was working just fine on F16 on the same
> hardware.
>
> I'm going to guess that it's easier to blacklist a make, than individual
> models.
>
> I'm wondering if there is a grub option to force gpt for anaconda.

But there should be an easy way to override it.

> One way to opt in is to use parted or gdisk to make a GPT without a
> partition, then tell Anaconda to use the "Use Free Space" installation type.
> Actually, only the "Use All Space" causes a change in partition scheme, so
> you could also make a single partition GPT disk with parted or gdisk, and
> also use the "Replace Existing Linux System" option.

I already have a GPT partition (from my previous installation), but
Anaconda complains that my boot partition should be of type msdos. The
only way to proceed seems to be discarding all partitions and creating
an msdos partition table.
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Re: GPT

[Nikos Roussos]

On Apr 22, 2012 6:35 PM, "Chris Murphy"  wrote:
>
> On Apr 22, 2012, at 8:17 AM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
>> I just tried to do a fresh installation with the F17 Beta Installation
DVD (x86_64). On the partitions stage I chose to use all space, discarding
all preexisting partitions, but it creates an msdos partition table instead
of gpt.
>>
>> Is something changed on the default anaconda configuration since F16?
>>
>>
> What hardware do you have? It may be gpt blacklisted. I can't reproduce
your results, even starting out with a disk that's MBR using "All Space"
flips it to GPT.

It's a lenovo thinkpad (edge). I remember a bug about some thinkpad models
having problem with gpt, but it would seem to me as an extreme action if
all lenovo models were blacklisted. Gpt was working just fine on F16 on the
same hardware.

I'm wondering if there is a grub option to force gpt for anaconda.
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GPT

[Nikos Roussos]

I just tried to do a fresh installation with the F17 Beta Installation DVD
(x86_64). On the partitions stage I chose to use all space, discarding all
preexisting partitions, but it creates an msdos partition table instead of
gpt.

Is something changed on the default anaconda configuration since F16?
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Re: ARM as a primary architecture

[Nikos Roussos]

On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Nicolas Mailhot <
nicolas.mail...@laposte.net> wrote:

>
> Le Jeu 22 mars 2012 14:11, Przemek Klosowski a écrit :
> > On 03/22/2012 02:31 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> >> Tom Lane wrote:
> >>> That opinion is flat out ridiculous.  Or maybe it makes sense if you
> >>> think consumer desktops are the be-all and end-all; but they are not.
> >>
> >> Consumer desktops and notebooks. The things we normally call
> "computers".
> >> Those have always been and should remain our primary target.
> >>
> > Check out the numbers from The Economist:
> >
> http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/20111008_SRM111.gif
> >
> > The number of desktops has been flat for last 7 years. The growth in the
> > smartphone/tablet area dwarfs 'what we normally call computers'.
>
> Apples and oranges. You could print the same stats a few years ago about
> cars
> vs scooters/bicycles
>
> Guess what all the Chinese/Indian bicycle riders started to buy as soon as
> they had the means to…
>
> All those numbers show is that the developing countries are actually
> developing (surprise!), and that they transition from nothing to cheapest
> solution possible. That does not mean they'll stick to this stage forever.
>

So you guess that they'll move on to desktop computers as long they have
the means, and we should not bother investing resources to this
intermediate phase. Even if it last for years.

Despite the fact that this is pretty wild guess, I don't think that Fedora
should only care about what's happening on the developed countries and
ignore the rest of the world.

Bottom line, it seems apples and apples to me. Naming it oranges just to
ignore it, doesn't qualify as an argument.
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Re: RFC: Primary architecture promotion requirements

[Nikos Roussos]

On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 7:54 PM, Kevin Kofler wrote:

> > What do people buy these days? Phones, tablets, and TVs. Not desktop
> > computers.
>
> Citation needed. Desktop/notebook computers aren't going to go away any
> time
> soon.


http://www.economist.com/node/21531109
with some interesting charts

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Re: /usr/share/applications weird error on koji

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 4:44 PM, Alec Leamas  wrote:

>  On 03/19/2012 02:32 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Alec Leamas wrote:
>
>>   On 03/19/2012 12:50 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm trying to build a package. It's an update on 
>> SparkleShare<https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/sparkleshare>package.
>>  I build it locally with mock and everything seems ok. Package is
>> built successfully. But when I try to build it on koji I get an error and
>> build fails on both f16 f17 targets:
>> "The databases in [/usr/share/applications] could not be updated."
>> which I think has something to do with the desktop-file-validate on
>> %install phase
>>
>> See the relevant koji task and build log for more:
>> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=3908835
>>
>> Any help appreciated
>>
>> --
>> Nikos Roussos <http://autoverse.net>
>>
>>
>>
>>   From the log, it looks  like it fails in 'install-data-hook'. If so,
>> the culprit might be some Makefile.am. Have upstream updated a Makefile.am
>> to include 'desktop-file-install', failing when not making a "real" install
>> int /usr?
>>
>> If this is right, you should be able to verify that the %install hasn't
>> really begun when the error is triggered. If unsure, put some simple 'echo'
>> statement in top of %install to verify that it hasn't been started.
>>
>> If this doesn't help, scanning the generated Makefiles for
>> 'desktop-file-install' and/or  '/usr/share/applications' might give  a clue
>>
>
> Actually there is an:
>
> install-data-hook:
> update-desktop-database $(datadir)/applications
>
> which seems to be the exact point that installation fails
>
>
>
>  You must patch that, it will try to update /usr/share/applications when
> building the rpm which of course isn't acceptable.
>
> For Fedora, you could just remove the target and run automake; autoconf;
> ./configure, given that you run update-desktop-database as part of %install.
>
> However, this should really be resolved together with upstream. If they
> want to keep the functionality, one could possibly:
>
> - Move it from install-data-hook to a separate target such as
> 'install-desktop' and let users run this as part of installation into
> system dirs.
> - Only run update-desktop-database if $(datadir)/applications is writeable:
>
> Personally, I would prefer the first one. To  mess with
> /usr/share/applications when DESTDIR is set is not really the way 'make
> install' is supposed to work. And updating
> $(DESTDIR)/$(datadir)/applications  just doesn't make sense.
>
> But I'm just a newbie, maybe someone else has a better piece of advice
> here?
>

I wrote a small patch to comment out this line and it worked just fine.
I'll file a bug upstream.

Thanks for the help.
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Re: /usr/share/applications weird error on koji

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Alec Leamas  wrote:

>  On 03/19/2012 12:50 PM, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to build a package. It's an update on 
> SparkleShare<https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/sparkleshare>package.
>  I build it locally with mock and everything seems ok. Package is
> built successfully. But when I try to build it on koji I get an error and
> build fails on both f16 f17 targets:
> "The databases in [/usr/share/applications] could not be updated."
> which I think has something to do with the desktop-file-validate on
> %install phase
>
> See the relevant koji task and build log for more:
> http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=3908835
>
> Any help appreciated
>
> --
> Nikos Roussos <http://autoverse.net>
>
>
>
>  From the log, it looks  like it fails in 'install-data-hook'. If so, the
> culprit might be some Makefile.am. Have upstream updated a Makefile.am to
> include 'desktop-file-install', failing when not making a "real" install
> int /usr?
>
> If this is right, you should be able to verify that the %install hasn't
> really begun when the error is triggered. If unsure, put some simple 'echo'
> statement in top of %install to verify that it hasn't been started.
>
> If this doesn't help, scanning the generated Makefiles for
> 'desktop-file-install' and/or  '/usr/share/applications' might give  a clue
>

Actually there is an:

install-data-hook:
update-desktop-database $(datadir)/applications

which seems to be the exact point that installation fails
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/usr/share/applications weird error on koji

[Nikos Roussos]

Hi,

I'm trying to build a package. It's an update on
SparkleShare<https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/search/sparkleshare>package.
I build it locally with mock and everything seems ok. Package is
built successfully. But when I try to build it on koji I get an error and
build fails on both f16 f17 targets:
"The databases in [/usr/share/applications] could not be updated."
which I think has something to do with the desktop-file-validate on
%install phase

See the relevant koji task and build log for more:
http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=3908835

Any help appreciated

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Re: Torvalds:requiring root password for mundane things is moronic

[Nikos Roussos]

Here is a weird example of how Fedora currenty handles some permission
procedures. I created a standard user account (no admin rights) and I'm
trying to install a package. When I press apply I'm prompted to enter a
password. Since I have no admin rights I would expect to be asked for the
root password. Instead of that I'm asked to enter a password of another
user who happens to be in the administrative group!

See the screenshot as a proof:
http://s.autoverse.net/yYi6AF
See on the top right corner that I'm logged in with another account.

So in the UX level we have actually disabled the root account (I can
remember when was the last time I was prompted to enter it) thus we keep
asking for a root password during installation that's ends up confusing
people about its purpose.


PS. an interesting question: if I had two users on my system belonging to
the administrative group. which one's password I'll be prompted to enter
when I'm logged with a standard user account, like the example above.
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Re: Torvalds:requiring root password for mundane things is moronic

[Nikos Roussos]

On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Chris Evich  wrote:

> On 02/29/2012 07:46 AM, Mark Bidewell wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 7:36 AM, Emanuel Rietveld**
>> wrote:
>>
>>  On 02/29/2012 01:15 PM, drago01 wrote:
>>>
>>>  On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 1:02 PM, Neal Becker
 wrote:

  I think he's got a point
>
> http://www.osnews.com/story/25659/Torvalds_requiring_root_
> password_for_mundane_things_is_quot_moronic_quot_ www.osnews.com/story/25659/**Torvalds_requiring_root_**
> password_for_mundane_things_**is_quot_moronic_quot_
> >
>
>
 Yeah but last time we tried this in fedora it got "flamefested" so we
 had to revert.


>>> Perhaps a solution is adding a group with the needed permissions and make
>>> it really easy to add an account to that group.
>>>
>>> --
>>> devel mailing list
>>> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel>> ps://admin.fedoraproject.org/**mailman/listinfo/devel
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>> +1 to this.  Many tasks should not require full root permissions to
>> execute. Having a set of groups centered around tasks (install printers,
>> install software, etc.)  would definitely make this simpler.  This method
>> would also be arguably be more secure than sudo as processes don't run
>> with
>> root permission therefore root privileged cannot be gained by exploiting a
>> program.   Another situation where having a group based security would be
>> nice is access to privileged ports.  Try running JBoss as a non-root user
>> on port 80.
>>
>>
>>
> Another +1 to the groups idea.  It would enable a simple convenience
> feature as well:  When prompting a user for the root password to do
> something the first time, include a check-box to add the user to the proper
> group behind-the-scene (with a warning that user needs to logout/login for
> change to be effective).  Maybe also include a simple management program to
> enable/disable/display allowed functionality for specific users based on
> descriptions (i.e. instead of group name - which may be meaningless to a
> n00b).  Kind of like how android permissions look, but with more of a
> management focus.
>

Why not add by default the first user created (right after installation
finishes) to administrative group and disable the root account? From my
experience (and the feedback I get from users that reach to me as an
Ambassador) most users fail to understand why they asked twice for
passwords during installation and they tend to use the same on both root
and first user password.
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Re: Review Swap

[Nikos Roussos]

Hi Pavel,

Ok :-)
 On Feb 5, 2012 8:16 PM, "Pavel Alexeev"  wrote:

>  Hello, Nikos.
>
> I'm ready swap to httpd-itk package -
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598860
>
> 04.02.2012 00:42, Nikos Roussos wrote:
>
> I'd like a review about sparkleshare package:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=787293
>
> Does somebody like to swap reviews?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --
> Nikos Roussos
> about <http://autoverse.net/>
>
> --
> With best wishes, Pavel Alexeev (aka Pahan-Hubbitus). For fast contact
> with me use jabber: hubbi...@jabber.ru
>
>
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Review Swap

[Nikos Roussos]

I'd like a review about sparkleshare package:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=787293

Does somebody like to swap reviews?

Thanks in advance

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Re: review swap: chromaprint - Library implementing the AcoustID fingerprinting

[Nikos Roussos]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Ismael Olea  wrote:

>
> Looking for a swap reviewer
>
> I think it's a non complex review
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=755066
> Spec URL: http://olea.org/tmp/chromaprint-rpms/chromaprint.spec
> SRPM URL:
> http://olea.org/tmp/chromaprint-rpms/chromaprint-0.5-2.fc15.src.rpm
>
>
I can do it.

Here is mine for review:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=754698



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