Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[Ralf Quint]

On 10/17/2016 7:47 PM, fredvs wrote:


@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.
Well, it does not come from FPC, in fact the Borland compiler back to at 
least Turbo/Borland Pascal 7.0 supported that feature. (Don't know if 
Turbo Pascal 6.0 might have already supported it because I skipped it 
"back then" and went from 5.5 straight to 7.0...


Ralf

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[wkitty42]

On 10/17/2016 10:47 PM, fredvs wrote:

@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.


it does not... smart linking originated with the TopSpeed team which Borland 
picked up many years back... sadly, they later let the TopSpeed team go but 
smartlinking originated way back long ago...


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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[fredvs]

Oops, I did not see this...

> Is only Smart-Linking causing the problem?

Yes I agree it is only a detail, all the rest is working perfectly.

And I will survive, even with smart-link 32 bit not working in one of my
system. ;-)

Thanks a lot for helping.

@fpc-team: Why not register the concept of "smart-linking", nobody knows
that word in other language.
IMO, it would be good to add in wikipedia a article about "smartlink" and
not forget to say that the concept of "smart-linking" comes from fpc.

Fre;D









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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[fredvs]

> Just curious. If you don't compile with Smart-Linking enabled, does your
binary then run fine?

Yes, without Smart-linking, a 32 bit fpc application runs fine in a
multi-arch 64 bit system.

With Smart-linking a 32 bit application runs fine only in a mono-arch 32
bit.

Fred.




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Re: [fpc-pascal] 3.1.1 documentation in html on the website?

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016, David Emerson wrote:


Michael Van Canneyt wrote:

David Emerson wrote:


Can the 3.1.1 documentation be viewed as html on the website? where?


No.


The 3.0.0 version is easy to find... but I'd like to see the one under
development


It is not under development.
I only document released material.


I guess I should have phrased my question differently.

I filed a bug against the documentation and it was marked fixed in 3.1.1, 
what's the best way to review the new version?


You'll have to check the sources. 
There are no daily builds of the documentation.


Michael.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] 3.1.1 documentation in html on the website?

[David Emerson]

Michael Van Canneyt wrote:

David Emerson wrote:


Can the 3.1.1 documentation be viewed as html on the website? where?


No.


The 3.0.0 version is easy to find... but I'd like to see the one under
development


It is not under development.
I only document released material.


I guess I should have phrased my question differently.

I filed a bug against the documentation and it was marked fixed in 
3.1.1, what's the best way to review the new version?


Thanks!
~David



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Re: [fpc-pascal] 3.1.1 documentation in html on the website?

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016, David Emerson wrote:


Can the 3.1.1 documentation be viewed as html on the website? where?


No.



The 3.0.0 version is easy to find... but I'd like to see the one under 
development


It is not under development.
I only document released material.

Michael.
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[fpc-pascal] 3.1.1 documentation in html on the website?

[David Emerson]

Can the 3.1.1 documentation be viewed as html on the website? where?

The 3.0.0 version is easy to find... but I'd like to see the one under 
development


Thanks!
David.


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[fpc-pascal] Piping: high level tool? Strong types sent via pipe

[Lars]

I was thinking: pipes are useful to communicate between processes. How
about a high level communication system instead of just sending low level
strings over the pipe? For example strong typing. If you want to send an
integer over a pipe, you generally have to parse the string and ensure it
is a number being sent over the pipe and not text, etc. So instead of
everyone reinventing their own strong typing system over pipes to ensure
data is received correctly, why not have a pipe library that anyone can
use which sends strongly typed information over the pipe?

i.e. Pipe.SendInteger, Pipe.SendString,

Instead of just

writeln(pipe, 'a string') which will need to be parsed and checked.

This may be something like interprocess communication library that is
already available for FPC, I don't know. I just had a brainstorm here...
pipes remind me of sockets...if you send data over a socket you have to
parse it, deal with it... Everyone reinvents their own messaging system
instead of having a single high level tool that everyone uses.

Also nice would be:

Pipe.Send(varargs)

i.e.

Pipe.Send(integer, string, byte, anythingyouwant).

Am I just reinventing the library already available for fpc for IPC
(interprocess communication) ?

Last time I tried it (been a long time) I had some issues with duplicates
showing up when communicating over IPC.

Anyway so what I would like to do, is have one process open up a pipe, and
send strongly typed data to another process. This is almost as powerful as
having a DLL since a dll allows you to communicate code between a dll and
an exe.. But with pipes no DLL is required, just two exes. This is
extremely powerful underused mechanism to create exe or elf plugins that
communicate with a main exe/elf program.

I don't like low level piping and sockets where you have to parse data and
create your own message system: everyone reinvents the wheel instead of
having a single library to use that is high level. I think sockets
communication and pipes are the biggest case of everyone reinventing the
wheel that there is!
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[Sven Barth]

Am 17.10.2016 17:11 schrieb "Martin Schreiber" :
>
> On Monday 17 October 2016 15:30:36 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> > On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> > > So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.
> >
> > I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
> > documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
> > multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per
procedure.
> >
> Doesn't it use function-sections nowadays?

It depends on the target. Most targets indeed used section based
smartlinking while AFAIK targets like go32v2 use the file based approach.

Regards,
Sven
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Re: [fpc-pascal] How to know the encoding of a string?

[Bart]

On 10/17/16, Marcos Douglas B. Santos  wrote:

> Is there a way to know what encoding was used at a string?
>
> My system are receiving some files and I don't know the encoding.
> I would like to know and then, convert it.

As explained there is no certain way.
Lazarus comes with lconvencoding unit which has a guessencoding function.
Maybe this can be of some help to you?

(Ruling out a string is UTF8 (compatible) can be done 100%)

Bart
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Re: [fpc-pascal] server down?

[Bart]

On 10/17/16, Mattias Gaertner  wrote:

> When clicking on the "Free Pascal Community" link it times out:
> http://community.freepascal.org:1/

Posted to lazarus-dev ML and when I got no reply reported on Mantis in
january 2016.

http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=29452

Bart
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Generic way to pre-maturely exit TCustomApplication without memory leaks

[Bart]

On 10/17/16, grouchysmurf  wrote:

>> Why a hack?
>> System.ExitCode is meant for returning exitcodes.
>
> Being  forced to forfeit one or two layers of abstraction in an object
> oriented environment does sound like a hack to me. A direct access to
> system variables is inelegant to my unexperienced eye but YMMV.

I can see your reasoning.
Again: file a feature request (with the above argumentation) in the
bugtracker. Attach a patch, this will increase the likelyhood it'll be
looked into by one of the devels.

Bart
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Re: [fpc-pascal] server down?

[Torsten Bonde Christiansen]

On 2016-10-17 17:28, Mattias Gaertner wrote:

Hi,

On the bug tracker login page
http://mantis.freepascal.org/login_page.php?return=%2Fmy_view_page.php%3F
I see this text:

Do you already have a login at Free Pascal Community? You can use that
login here (use your e-mail address as username).

When clicking on the "Free Pascal Community" link it times out:
http://community.freepascal.org:1/

BTW, the bugs.freepascal.org site nowhere mentions a webmaster.


Mattias

I can get access using http://bugs.freepascal.org without any problems...

-Torsten.
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[fpc-pascal] server down?

[Mattias Gaertner]

Hi,

On the bug tracker login page
http://mantis.freepascal.org/login_page.php?return=%2Fmy_view_page.php%3F
I see this text:

Do you already have a login at Free Pascal Community? You can use that
login here (use your e-mail address as username). 

When clicking on the "Free Pascal Community" link it times out:
http://community.freepascal.org:1/

BTW, the bugs.freepascal.org site nowhere mentions a webmaster.


Mattias
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[Martin Schreiber]

On Monday 17 October 2016 15:30:36 Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:
> On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> > So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.
>
> I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
> documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
> multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per procedure.
>
Doesn't it use function-sections nowadays?

Martin
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-09-21 18:07, fredvs wrote:
> In a multi-arch system (64 bit system that can run 32 bit apps too) FreeBSD
> 64, there is problem if a fpc 32 bit application was compiled with smart
> link (-XX).

Just curious. If you don't compile with Smart-Linking enabled, does your
binary then run fine?

Is only Smart-Linking causing the problem?


Regards,
  Graeme

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My public PGP key:  http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[fredvs]

Yeh, the cavalry finally arrives, I am saved. ;-)

> it is then the linkers job to link only the object files that are needed
> (and really used in the application) to make the executable. 

Yes, yes, yes and re-yes.

> I guess showing them the content of the ppas.sh file is all that they
> should need as proof.

Huh, it is already one week (7 days) that I repeat it on each answer.

> Some developers are harder to convince about potential problems or bugs. 

Yes but here it is different. Did you see that they do not want that I
answer any more?

Sincerely, if it was for one of my project, I never will fight and accept to
be insulted in each of their answer, this more than a week.

But here it is about the honor of fpc who was accused to produce bad code.

> The alternative (if you know exactly what the problem is), is to modify
> the ld linker yourself and see if it then works on your system.

Yep or prove that a gcc or clang or llvm compiler that use ld +
--gc-sections produce binary not usable in multi-arch.

==> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/58060/

Thanks Graeme, I was beginning to think that I was in a nightmare without
end.

 
Fre;D





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-17 13:55, fredvs wrote:
> So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.

I'm not sure I follow you. From what I understand from the FPC
documentation, is that FPC (when smartlinking is enabled) generates
multiple object files per unit, trying to make a object file per procedure.

It is then the linkers job to link only the object files that are needed
(and really used in the application) to make the executable. How the
linker does that is beyond my knowledge.


> There in FreeBSD forum, they cannot admit that fpc uses  *--gc-sections*
> option in ld when fpc -XX is used.

I guess showing them the content of the ppas.sh file is all that they
should need as proof. The alternative (if you know exactly what the
problem is), is to modify the ld linker yourself and see if it then
works on your system. If so, send them a patch.

Some developers are harder to convince about potential problems or bugs.
The FreeBSD developers are definitely not the only ones.


Regards,
  Graeme

-- 
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Re: [fpc-pascal] How to know the encoding of a string?

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-17 14:14, Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote:
> My system are receiving some files and I don't know the encoding.
> I would like to know and then, convert it.

No such function [with exact results] exists anywhere (no matter the
programming language). The best programs can do is to interrogate the
contents of a file and make a best guess.  How they do that
interrogation -- I unfortunately don't know. I guess you could look at
the source code of some of the open source text editors and see what
they do. Some text editors are much better than others. eg: EditPad Pro
(commercial) and jEdit (open source) are very good at these interrogations.

Alternatively, simply ask the person that supplies you with these files
to tell you want encoding they use. They must know the answer.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] How to know the encoding of a string?

[Jonas Maebe]

Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote:
> Is there a way to know what encoding was used at a string?
> 
> My system are receiving some files and I don't know the encoding.
> I would like to know and then, convert it.

There are some heuristics you could try to apply (see e.g.
http://chsdet.sourceforge.net ), but in general it is impossible to know
for sure what encoding has been used.


Jonas
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[fpc-pascal] How to know the encoding of a string?

[Marcos Douglas B. Santos]

Hi,

Is there a way to know what encoding was used at a string?

My system are receiving some files and I don't know the encoding.
I would like to know and then, convert it.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Smart link in FreeBSD multi-arch ?

[fredvs]

Thanks Michael.

> No, simply probably no-one knows the answer or the few knowledgable people
> didn't see your message. 

OK I agree the problem is complicated it is the reason why I ask this to fpc
+ freebsd forum.

But here I ask something simple : What option is added to linker when -XX
parameter is used?

If you do:

fpc -s -XX test.pas, in the ppas.sh produced, *--gc-sections* option is
added to ld option.

So it seems that garbage collection must be enabled to do a smartlink.

And if this is right, using  garbage collection in FreeBSD 32 bit produce
code not usable in Multi-arch.

There in FreeBSD forum, they cannot admit that fpc uses  *--gc-sections*
option in ld when fpc -XX is used.

Fre;D
  





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Re: [fpc-pascal] Error: Identifier not found "Heap Error"

[Jonas Maebe]

Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto wrote:
> Would be it be better to try to compile this with the Turbo Pascal
> compiler then? Or do you think it would be easier to try to remove the
> lines with these codes and continue with FPC? My fear is that in some of
> these modifications I change what the code was supposed to do.

As the link that Bart posted explains
(http://putka.upm.si/langref/turboPascal/0683.html ), HeapError is a
pointer to a function that would be called when you're out of memory.
That happened quite regularly if all you had was 640KB, but it is
extremely unlikely to happen if you are running that same program on the
same inputs on a 32 or even 64 bit platform.

If that would happen anyway, then by default FPC will terminate your
program with a Run-time error 204. You can then still look at what the
original program did if it ran out of memory and try to do the same in a
more preventative way, if it did not simply use that HeapError function
pointer to print a (more user-friendly) error message and terminate as well.


Jonas
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Error: Identifier not found "Heap Error"

[Michael Van Canneyt]

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016, Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto wrote:


Hi all,

Thanks for the help.

Would be it be better to try to compile this with the Turbo Pascal compiler
then? Or do you think it would be easier to try to remove the lines with
these codes and continue with FPC? My fear is that in some of these
modifications I change what the code was supposed to do.


Normally, you can just remove the lines that contain HeapError.

Michael.
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Error: Identifier not found "Heap Error"

[Luiz Gonzaga de Oliveira Neto]

Hi all,

Thanks for the help.

Would be it be better to try to compile this with the Turbo Pascal compiler
then? Or do you think it would be easier to try to remove the lines with
these codes and continue with FPC? My fear is that in some of these
modifications I change what the code was supposed to do.

Best regards,

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 1:12 PM Bart  wrote:

> On 10/16/16, Mark Morgan Lloyd  wrote:
>
> > I've got a 5.0 manual to hand [blows dust off, coughs].
>
> See: http://putka.upm.si/langref/turboPascal/0683.html
>
> Bart
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Compiler option -gt (Trash local variables)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

On 2016-10-17 10:23, Marco van de Voort wrote:
> I've used it in debugging/hardening fpdoc a few years ago, and had good
> experiences. I also benefited a lot from -CR

Thank you both Marco and Jonas. I only discovered the setting over the
weekend, and it does seem like a useful option to use while debugging.


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Compiler option -gt (Trash local variables)

[Marco van de Voort]

In our previous episode, Graeme Geldenhuys said:
> How well does the -gt compiler option work? Is it worth enabling during
> debugging?

I've used it in debugging/hardening fpdoc a few years ago, and had good
experiences. I also benefited a lot from -CR
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Re: [fpc-pascal] Compiler option -gt (Trash local variables)

[Jonas Maebe]

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2016:


How well does the -gt compiler option work?


I don't think there are any known bugs with it in either 3.0 or trunk.  
3.0 does not trash ansi/unicodestring function results though, while  
trunk does.



Is it worth enabling during
debugging?


I think so, yes.


Jonas
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[fpc-pascal] Compiler option -gt (Trash local variables)

[Graeme Geldenhuys]

Hi,

How well does the -gt compiler option work? Is it worth enabling during
debugging?


Regards,
  Graeme

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Re: [fpc-pascal] Generic way to pre-maturely exit TCustomApplication without memory leaks

[grouchysmurf]

Hi.

>> I ended up doing exactly that though it feels like an ugly thoug[h]
>> incomplete hack. Thanks for the tip.

> Why a hack?
> System.ExitCode is meant for returning exitcodes.

Being  forced to forfeit one or two layers of abstraction in an object
oriented environment does sound like a hack to me. A direct access to
system variables is inelegant to my unexperienced eye but YMMV.

Łukasz

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