Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Bobby Giles]

>oh, news for me :) but are you sure that its also legal to create and>run modified copies? I unfortunately dont have much knowledge on legal>things.I believe so. As long as you do not claim any of the files M$ on thier are yours, it should be legal.
Think of it like modding a game or making custom maps.On 10/01/06, Martin Heistermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:09:59AM -0700, Nathan Nottingham wrote:
> This seems to have> little value given that the shader cannot access system memory.afaik that *is* possible via the memexport function.>> Martin replied before I sent this (damn RL job :) but in regards to
> his comment about use of the kiosk disc not being legal; it would> depend on who is using it. More than one kiosk Xbox has been sold> (accounts on various blogs) some of which have included the disc.
> While likely a contractual violation between Microsoft> and the retailer, it is not illegal to sell it.oh, news for me :) but are you sure that its also legal to create andrun modified copies? I unfortunately dont have much knowledge on legal
things.-mxn---This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log filesfor problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- David Giles

[Free60-Devel] XNA

[Guilherme Candido Hartmann]

One of the only ways to bypass the security is acessing the mbr ( 
wherever it is ), and validating the boot for a linux distribution.


Have heard of XNA. It's an expansion of DirectX, I think that microsoft 
have included all the hardware access in the kernel and directx/xna 
interface to avoiding hacking. That would bring us some troubles, maybe 
an specific chipset.


Getting a list of all the components used in the xbox360 motherboard 
maybe a good start. Mapping the mbr, and loading the data from a DVD. 
Booting backup disks may matter, but our problem is a little bigger 
here. But the profits of cheap and VERY powerfull desktop machine must 
be taken in count. :)


Cheers,
   Guilherme


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Martin Heistermann]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 11:09:59AM -0700, Nathan Nottingham wrote:
> This seems to have 
> little value given that the shader cannot access system memory.
afaik that *is* possible via the memexport function.
> 
> Martin replied before I sent this (damn RL job :) but in regards to
> his comment about use of the kiosk disc not being legal; it would 
> depend on who is using it. More than one kiosk Xbox has been sold 
> (accounts on various blogs) some of which have included the disc.
> While likely a contractual violation between Microsoft 
> and the retailer, it is not illegal to sell it.

oh, news for me :) but are you sure that its also legal to create and
run modified copies? I unfortunately dont have much knowledge on legal
things.

-mxn


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Nathan Nottingham]

Anze Slosar wrote:


The potential value of the kiosk disc due to it's lack of a media flag
is obvious.  A mod chip potentially allows all media to shed it's media
flag so may be a tool through which Linux finds it's way to the 360.



Hi,

sorry for being slow, but could someone explain me what makes this kiosk 
disc working on any xbox 360? Is it digitally signed or how it is 
authorised? I've heard that there are unsigned application that actually 
get executed from the disc (is this true?) and if this is the case 
wouldn't be 'trivial' to put our code in there?  Are the standard games 
just a different filesystem or do they actually use a different 
technology (i.e. would you need an updated driver in the PC an updated 
firmware and a completelly different drive to read them?)


(feel free to tell me to f* off, but please point me to a wiki or 
discussion...)


regards,
a.


The executables are still signed, however the media files (music, video, 
etc) are not.  There is the potential for a buffer overflow given the 
ability to change those files (ala 'softmod' hacks for the Xbox1). 
Another interesting hack has been the execution of custom instructions 
in the GPU's shader.  This seems to have little value given that the 
shader cannot access system memory.


Martin replied before I sent this (damn RL job :) but in regards to his 
comment about use of the kiosk disc not being legal; it would depend on 
who is using it.  More than one kiosk Xbox has been sold (accounts on 
various blogs) some of which have included the disc.  While likely a 
contractual violation between Microsoft and the retailer, it is not 
illegal to sell it.


There is at least one individual who obtained a copy of Microsoft's 
'testing' disc when his 360 was returned from repair.  Has anyone seen 
any information about that disc?







---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Free60-Devel] Re: SKD? only if....

[Antti Hakulinen]

Please read below.

richard klecker wrote:

  IF the are opening it up, that tells me one
thing:
That the software for this thing is EXTREMELY difficult to code for!
Think about it!  M$ would NOT slash the throats of their own software
partners!  If indie software dev was possible it would reduce prices
and thus profits for the software devs which certainly wouldn't make
them happy.  
  
  

: It most certainly isn't extremely difficult to code for, thats one of
ms targets and successful one also. When you develop games, obviously
you have to go by the rules set by the hardware meaning what gives best
performance, how to take full advantage of 360's power. 

As for the slashing throats for software partners:  MS could think
super wisely.

By giving tools to develop easily for 360 without big bucks, they would
increase developer's amount, which could and should drop the prices.
That would put the sales to level never seen before. 

I'm being totally serious. 
It would increase the software sales so much it would make profit much
more than selling 60+ eur games that you buy ?rarely? anyway, i know i
can afford them rarely.With noticeably lower prices, piratism will
shrink considerably as people don't care so much anymore, people would
actually start to spend more money for software as they would notice
they can afford it. 
It would be a super duper idea and i wouldn't be surprised at all if
this would be MS future vision. 

The games developed with big money would still maybe cost 60+ eur/$ but
now the software range would be very much broader.

Next hit game could then be something imaginary like simple nethack
with network support  stylish game that dj tjfontaine and chippen'dave
did, it would sell like 3 million copies and cost only 30 eur/$. Now
that would be serious bussiness for all parties involved. 

I think this is where MS is heading and it's something totally awesome.
We could actually start to see something new and i don't mean that you
can use 2 weapons simultaneously in halo2 compared to halo1 or
something similarly baffling crap that is supposed to be new.

  No, if the release a kit then it tells me that
the large firms are secure in knowing that they are the only ones
capable of dev'ing quality game software.
  
  

Depends what is quality. =) But i agree, that would be the case for the
cutting edge graphical part atleast. Which would bring us to the target
audience.

  As for being able to play backups so you aren't
out $70 everytime the 360 scratches up your discs..right around
the corner.just look at xboxhacker.net forums on DVD firmware!
  

I personally am out of extra $70 always, atleast as long as i'm
unemployed. I like the possibility to play backups. 

Br: Antti.

  
  Antti Hakulinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
  
Antti Hakulinen wrote:
> If i recall right, Allard said that theyre gonna do that, aka open
sdk 
> for indie developers.
> The point was you don't have to have big big amounts of money in
order 
> to develop titles for 360.
>
> From my point of view this would be very, very good move to all 
> parties involved. The increase in software and games would be
great 
> and i think Sony and competitors ( i don't know but doubt ) would
do 
> such a thing, and then again it should be considerably harder to 
> develop for example PS3 than 360. Doing that, Microsoft would 
> certainly gain more ground imo.
> I think theyre gonna do it at some point and that it will be
something 
> new and great. It's certainly one unplayed ace they have there...
>
> Justus wrote:
>> Please take a look here
>> http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/developingforxbox360.htm
>>
>> At this time, access to development tools for the Xbox 360™
video game
>> console is limited to developers working on approved titles for
>> licensed publishers.
>> !!This will change over time, so check back for more
information in
>> the future.!!
>>
>>
>> Does it mean that MS will open SDK for indie developers?
>> N¬HY޵隊X¬²š'²ŠÞu¼’¦[§‰ÜŒ¨º
>> Þ¦Øk¢è!–ˆŠW¬~Šé®†åzk¶ŠC£ 
>> 塧m…éÞÀ[EMAIL PROTECTED]Çš­È^ž§zØZ¶f¤zËj·!Šx2¢êå¢â•ë±æ¬É«,º·âž a{›
å,àHòÔ4¨m¶ŸÿiÛ(±ÙÜ¢oÚv'ï­ûjYhr'ׯ:æŠrXœ‘:.žË›±Êâmçë¢kaŠÉb²ÛÛazX§zéì¹»®&Þ¥«,Š݊{ayºʇڙë,j­¡úÞ{­z÷¥­ê®zËeŠËl²‹«qç讧et==

>>
>
>



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log
files
for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  
  
   
  Yahoo! Photos
Ring in the New Year with Photo
Calendars. Add photos, events, holidays, whatever.

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Martin Heistermann]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 05:57:24PM +0100, Anze Slosar wrote:
> I've heard that there are unsigned application that actually get
> executed from the disc (is this true?) and if this is the case wouldn't be
> 'trivial' to put our code in there? 

No, the xex's themselves are signed, but they use data that isnt signed
- i.e. shaders and flash files - additionally its not legal to use it,
because the disc isnt officially avaible and just copies are used.

-mxn



---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Anze Slosar]

The potential value of the kiosk disc due to it's lack of a media flagis obvious.  A mod chip potentially allows all media to shed it's media
flag so may be a tool through which Linux finds it's way to the 360.

Hi, 

sorry for being slow, but could someone explain me what makes this
kiosk disc working on any xbox 360? Is it digitally signed or how it is
authorised? I've heard that there are unsigned application that
actually get executed from the disc (is this true?) and if this is the
case wouldn't be 'trivial' to put our code in there?  Are the
standard games just a different filesystem or do they actually use a
different technology (i.e. would you need an updated driver in the PC
an updated firmware and a completelly different drive to read them?)

(feel free to tell me to f* off, but please point me to a wiki or discussion...)

regards,
a.

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Nathan Nottingham]

Mod chips are legal in many countries and could be of significant use to 
those seeking to legally change the functionality of their Xbox 360.


The potential value of the kiosk disc due to it's lack of a media flag 
is obvious.  A mod chip potentially allows all media to shed it's media 
flag so may be a tool through which Linux finds it's way to the 360.


I don't see any reason to avoid legitimate discussion of mod chips or 
booting backups.  Admittedly, when most people talk of 'booting backups' 
it is a thinly veiled attempt at renaming piracy, however, making and 
using backups IS still legal under most fair use laws.


This chip is most certainly a fake, however when chips do appear it 
would be prudent to evaluate their usefulness in achieving our goals 
even if they 'only support booting backups.'


Anyone see anything wrong with third party chips in an Xbox1 using Cromwell?

Of course, I'm all for dropping the conversation about this 'team' and 
their 'chip' as they seem far from legitimate.


My $.02



Joni Aaltonen wrote:

Please, no discussion about this on the mailing list.

Even if It would be true, it’d only support booting backups which is NOT 
our goal in this project.


 


If you want to know more about the “chip” just check X-S forum.

 


//Altsi

 




*From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Anze Slosar

*Sent:* 10. tammikuuta 2006 12:10
*To:* Wayne Osborne
*Cc:* free60-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
*Subject:* Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

 

 

On 10/01/06, *Wayne Osborne* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


http://www.icemodchip.com/index.php


It must be bogas:

a) Lots of spelling mistakes together with flashy website.

b) Amongs other things, the website says:

"Previous pictures that were posted wasdue to a falling out between the 
team webmaster, and the team lead. Those pictures are confirmed fake, 
and not a prototype whatsoever, please delete them. The final version 
will have nothing to do with those pictures whatsoever, and will be 
composed of an actel chip placed on a pcb board."


sure. the webmaster went and faked them due to a falling out

c) They say: 20-30 wires (Depending On M$ Kernal Version) : I don't 
think there are that many versions of xbox 360, you say kernel and the 
problem is pre kernel, not sure what exactly do they mean here.


However:

a) They show a video (which would be trivial to fake by, e.g. have 
another xbox hidden somewhere)
b) They have contacted infinity mods: this guys will disclose them in a 
second if it doesn't work.


my best guess is that they want to earn on preorders and disappear.

anze



c)

 

 




---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_idv37&alloc_id865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Joni Aaltonen]

Please, no discussion about this on the
mailing list.

Even if It would be true, it’d only
support booting backups which is NOT our goal in this project.

 

If you want to know more about the “chip”
just check X-S forum.

 

//Altsi

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Anze Slosar
Sent: 10. tammikuuta 2006 12:10
To: Wayne Osborne
Cc:
free60-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?



 

 



On 10/01/06, Wayne
Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

http://www.icemodchip.com/index.php




It must be bogas:

a) Lots of spelling mistakes together with flashy website.

b) Amongs other things, the website says:

"Previous pictures that were posted wasdue to a falling out between the
team webmaster, and the team lead. Those pictures are confirmed fake, and not a
prototype whatsoever, please delete them. The final version will have nothing
to do with those pictures whatsoever, and will be composed of an actel chip
placed on a pcb board."

sure. the webmaster went and faked them due to a falling out

c) They say: 20-30 wires
(Depending On M$ Kernal Version) : I don't think there are that many versions
of xbox 360, you say kernel and the problem is pre kernel, not sure what
exactly do they mean here.

However:

a) They show a video (which would be trivial to fake by, e.g. have another xbox
hidden somewhere)
b) They have contacted infinity mods: this guys will disclose them in a second
if it doesn't work.

my best guess is that they want to earn on preorders and disappear.

anze



c) 

 

 

Re: [Free60-Devel] Strange statement on X36 SDK...

[Antti Hakulinen]

Antti Hakulinen wrote:
If i recall right, Allard said that theyre gonna do that, aka open sdk 
for indie developers.
The point was you don't have to have big big amounts of money in order 
to develop titles for 360.


From my point of view this would be very, very good move to all 
parties involved. The increase in software and games would be great 
and i think Sony and competitors ( i don't know but doubt ) would do 
such a thing, and then again it should be considerably harder to 
develop for example PS3 than 360. Doing that, Microsoft would 
certainly gain more ground imo.
I think theyre gonna do it at some point and that it will be something 
new and great. It's certainly one unplayed ace they have there...


Justus wrote:

Please take a look here
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/developingforxbox360.htm

At this time, access to development tools for the Xbox 360™ video game
console is limited to developers working on approved titles for
licensed publishers.
 !!This will change over time, so check back for more information in
the future.!!


Does it mean that MS will open SDK for indie developers?
N¬HY޵隊X¬²š'²ŠÞu¼’¦[§�‰ÜŒ¨º
Þ¦Øk¢è!–ˆŠW¬~Šé®†åzk¶ŠC£
[EMAIL PROTECTED],º·âža{›å�,àHòÔ4¨m¶ŸÿiÛ(±ÙÜ¢oÚv'ï­ûjYhr'ׯ:æŠrXœ‘:.žË›±Êâmçë¢kaŠÉb²Û�ÛazX§zéì¹»®&Þ¥«,Š݊{ayºʇڙë,j­¡úÞ{­z÷¥­ê®zËeŠËl²‹«qç讧et== 








---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[Free60-Devel] Strange statement on X36 SDK...

[Justus]

Please take a look here
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/dev/developingforxbox360.htm

At this time, access to development tools for the Xbox 360™ video game
console is limited to developers working on approved titles for
licensed publishers.
 !!This will change over time, so check back for more information in
the future.!!


Does it mean that MS will open SDK for indie developers?
N¬HY޵隊X¬²š'²ŠÞu¼’¦[§�‰ÜŒ¨º
Þ¦Øk¢è!–ˆŠW¬~Šé®†åzk¶ŠC£  [EMAIL PROTECTED],º·âža{›
å�,àHòÔ4¨m¶ŸÿiÛ(±ÙÜ¢oÚv'

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Antti Hakulinen]

100% bogus.

a) No team and I mean none, would do things as badly as they do.
b) Features are um funny unlock/lock hd for 3rd party drives? what 
for if the hds aren't locked in first place?
c) From the chat log Heinrich had, I didn't get why remove pictures of 
the chip ( that were fake ) from the webserver because of fear that the 
chip will get copied?
d) Pricing in the chat log was again badly thought. Wouldn't the price 
policy be more better done if they had meeting with divineo for example?

e) The picture from the OS was horrible looking fake.

I say we are facing 1-2 fellows that are young hoaxters. If you identify 
them. Spank them for all the wasted minutes. :)


Br: Antti


---
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files
for problems?  Stop!  Download the new AJAX search engine that makes
searching your log files as easy as surfing the  web.  DOWNLOAD SPLUNK!
http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=7637&alloc_id=16865&op=click
--
To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe "
in the body of a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [Free60-Devel] bogas?

[Anze Slosar]

On 10/01/06, Wayne Osborne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://www.icemodchip.com/index.php
It must be bogas:

a) Lots of spelling mistakes together with flashy website.

b) Amongs other things, the website says:

"Previous pictures that were posted wasdue to a falling out between the
team webmaster, and the team lead. Those pictures are confirmed fake,
and not a prototype whatsoever, please delete them. The final version
will have nothing to do with those pictures whatsoever, and will be
composed of an actel chip placed on a pcb board."

sure. the webmaster went and faked them due to a falling out

c) They say: 20-30 wires
(Depending On M$ Kernal Version) : I don't think there are that many
versions of xbox 360, you say kernel and the problem is pre kernel, not
sure what exactly do they mean here.

However:

a) They show a video (which would be trivial to fake by, e.g. have another xbox hidden somewhere)
b) They have contacted infinity mods: this guys will disclose them in a second if it doesn't work.

my best guess is that they want to earn on preorders and disappear.

anze



c)