[h-cost] Lobster Back???
I was looking through an August 1913 issue of a French high-fashion magazine. In the text was a description of a fashion having a lobster back. I do not read French very well. Can someone please read the following paragraph and let me know what is being referred to as having a lobster back. I have not heard the term used for fashion. Deauville, 12 Août L'un de ces manteaux, qui m'a infiniment plu, parce que réellement celui-là répondait à un besoin et avait extrêmement de chic, était en gros molleton un peu dur, comme l'étoffe des vareuses de matelots; sans manches drapé, et seulement garni de ses revers, il avant une allure inouie sur une robe de mousseline blanche à volants, parce qu'il épaississait la silhouette d'une facon voulue et cocasse, contrastant avec la tête que coiffait un de ces minuscules bonnets des soldats anglais surnommés lobster back; comme celui-là, il était posé sur l'oreille droite, complètement adhérent au front très dégagé, et piqué d'une aigrette paradis très maigre et démesurément haute. C'était là du nouveau, autant par les détails que par l'ensemble de cette toilette très excentrique et tout à fait réussie. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 11 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Lobster Back???
What is being described is not the coat but the hat, a tiny version of the hats of those English soldiers nicknamed 'lobster backs.' Those would be the redcoats, the English soldiers of the 18th-19th century notorious here during the American Revolution. --R.A. Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- From: Penny Ladnier pe...@costumegallery.com Sent: Feb 10, 2009 4:18 AM To: h-costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Lobster Back??? I was looking through an August 1913 issue of a French high-fashion magazine. In the text was a description of a fashion having a lobster back. I do not read French very well. Can someone please read the following paragraph and let me know what is being referred to as having a lobster back. I have not heard the term used for fashion. Deauville, 12 Août L'un de ces manteaux, qui m'a infiniment plu, parce que réellement celui-là répondait à un besoin et avait extrêmement de chic, était en gros molleton un peu dur, comme l'étoffe des vareuses de matelots; sans manches drapé, et seulement garni de ses revers, il avant une allure inouie sur une robe de mousseline blanche à volants, parce qu'il épaississait la silhouette d'une facon voulue et cocasse, contrastant avec la tête que coiffait un de ces minuscules bonnets des soldats anglais surnommés lobster back; comme celui-là, il était posé sur l'oreille droite, complètement adhérent au front très dégagé, et piqué d'une aigrette paradis très maigre et démesurément haute. C'était là du nouveau, autant par les détails que par l'ensemble de cette toilette très excentrique et tout à fait réussie. Penny Ladnier Owner, The Costume Gallery Websites www.costumegallery.com 11 websites of fashion, textiles, costume history ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] Boning question
I'm pondering 16th century flat fronted bodies and kirtles, and the pair of bodies of Dorothea von Neuburg on page 113 of Patterns of fashion. The boning comes up only to the bottom of the breast curves. The Tudor Tailor references this boning pattern and says it's important to maintain the proper curved lines. I've made a similar garment for myself and got a perfectly flat front, with no difference from the same garment made with the boning running over the breasts from the upper edge to the (slight raised) waistline. Obviously bodies vary, so I'm asking if anyone has found a noticeable difference when using this boning pattern, and what it was? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sorting out a confused gown
HI Isabella, Thanks for these leads. Yes, that is the gown I believe it is based on. I've had people comment on the similarities in the past but had forgotten. I want to make another Bronzino, I love this style. Bye for now, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy music ~ dancing ~ sewing ~ patterns ~ books 1480s - 1890s : Renaissance to Victorian http://www.earthlydelights.com.au On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:40 AM, . . lizmaek...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Aylwen, It looks like your gown might be based off some of the Florentine paintings/dresses from the mid 16th c. Here are some examples that include paintings showing a similar type sleeve to the one you have. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Angelo_Bronzino_038.jpg http://www.geocities.com/ailithmac/elenora.jpg Look for Florentine portraits created between 1550-1580 and I think you'll find something to your liking. Check out sites like http://www.wga.hu to help. -Isabella Message: 4 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 01:14:42 +1100 From: Aylwen Garden aylwe...@gmail.com Subject: [h-cost] Sorting out a confused gown To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Message-ID: dc9a147d0902090614y3968e3bdhe9ab54118e976...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Some years ago I copied a renaissance gown I saw on the internet. It has been added to over the years and is no longer identifiable as belonging to any certain period. I would like to sort it out, and probably move more to Italian with a sheer partlet etc. I'd love to find some portraits to work from as well. Can anyone advise me on what might be the best way forward with this gown, and what period it might fit into best of all. Pictures of it are at http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/garden_family.jpg I do not like to wear a solid partlet, and now have a gathered cotton chemise with full sleeves to wear underneath. I have not seen my style of sleeve in any Italian portraits yet. http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v228/127/105/n59547_9038.jpg (without corset here as dancing on Saturday in heatwave, trying to keep temps down) Portraits that I like include: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Music1560s.jpg http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Trictrac.JPG Bye for now, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy music ~ dancing ~ sewing ~ patterns ~ books 1480s - 1890s : Renaissance to Victorian http://www.earthlydelights.com.au -- ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume End of h-costume Digest, Vol 8, Issue 49 _ Windows Live™: E-mail. Chat. Share. Get more ways to connect. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Faster_022009 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Sorting out a confused gown
Hi De Thanks for those leads. I'm thinking off taking off the tabs at the waist as they were an afterthought as the rest of my dance group wears English elizabethan. Then make a partlet (?) like in the Bronzino paintings. Bye for now, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden Earthly Delights Historic Dance Academy music ~ dancing ~ sewing ~ patterns ~ books 1480s - 1890s : Renaissance to Victorian http://www.earthlydelights.com.au On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 6:31 AM, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: first, if you are leaning towards Italian you might want to get on the Italian Ren yahoo groups site. Your outfit is closer in style of the mid 1500s English and French. Perhaps instead of revamping the dress you might want to make another gown. Besides Realm of Venus there are also Festive Attyre, mainly Florentine http://festiveattyre.com/research/index.html but costume wise (clicking on the pictures will get you to dress diaries, usually) http://festiveattyre.com/gallery/index.html Oonagh's http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/index2.html The Purple files http://katerina.purplefiles.net/garb/Kat's_Closet.html De -Original Message- Some years ago I copied a renaissance gown I saw on the internet. It has been added to over the years and is no longer identifiable as belonging to any certain period. I would like to sort it out, and probably move more to Italian with a sheer partlet etc. I'd love to find some portraits to work from as well. Can anyone advise me on what might be the best way forward with this gown, and what period it might fit into best of all. Pictures of it are at http://www.earthlydelights.com.au/garden_family.jpg I do not like to wear a solid partlet, and now have a gathered cotton chemise with full sleeves to wear underneath. I have not seen my style of sleeve in any Italian portraits yet. http://profile.ak.facebook.com/v228/127/105/n59547_9038.jpg (without corset here as dancing on Saturday in heatwave, trying to keep temps down) Portraits that I like include: http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Music1560s.jpg http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/Trictrac.JPG Bye for now, Aylwen Gardiner-Garden ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Boning question
I have made the corset and it gives a little more room like a few mm but not that you actually see it while wearing. But I think it is a little more comfortable than having the reeds running up to the top. And the top is less stiff. Margo Anderson wrote: I'm pondering 16th century flat fronted bodies and kirtles, and the pair of bodies of Dorothea von Neuburg on page 113 of Patterns of fashion. The boning comes up only to the bottom of the breast curves. The Tudor Tailor references this boning pattern and says it's important to maintain the proper curved lines. I've made a similar garment for myself and got a perfectly flat front, with no difference from the same garment made with the boning running over the breasts from the upper edge to the (slight raised) waistline. Obviously bodies vary, so I'm asking if anyone has found a noticeable difference when using this boning pattern, and what it was? Margo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Boning question
I agree with Deredere, this kind of pattern is more comfortable while keeping the front straight. Another difference is that the breasts aren't pushed up so much as they would be with a full-boned corset. A picture of my version of Dorothea bodies is here: http://www.sartor.cz/images/renesancni-korzet.jpg It is made of silk shantung, flat lined with sturdy cotton and lined with white linen. The boning is made of 12cm wide synthetic whalebone. Zuzana ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
