[LUTE] Re: preface Piccinini in English?
Hi David, I have a French version in pdf. Do let me know if you'd like a copy. All the best Jaroslaw Wiadomość napisana przez David van Ooijen w dniu 16 gru 2014, o godz. 08:52: Dear collected wisdom Can someone point me to an English (or German, French or, why not?, Dutch) translation of Piccinini's fmous preface. Any hints much appreciated. David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: preface Piccinini in English?
Dear Dennis, No problem at all. I'll send you a copy in a minute. Have a nice day Jaroslaw Wiadomość napisana przez dc w dniu 16 gru 2014, o godz. 10:00: Dear Jaroslaw, I'd appreciate very much also the French version. With thanks in advance, and all best wishes from France. Dennis Le 16/12/2014 09:30, Jarosław Lipski écrit : Hi David, I have a French version in pdf. Do let me know if you'd like a copy. All the best Jaroslaw Wiadomość napisana przez David van Ooijen w dniu 16 gru 2014, o godz. 08:52: Dear collected wisdom Can someone point me to an English (or German, French or, why not?, Dutch) translation of Piccinini's fmous preface. Any hints much appreciated. David *** David van Ooijen [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: preface Piccinini in English?
[1]http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?download=piccinini-instructions.pdf Le Mardi 16 dA(c)cembre 2014 10h10, JarosAAaw Lipski jaroslawlip...@wp.pl a A(c)crit : Dear Dennis, No problem at all. I'll send you a copy in a minute. Have a nice day Jaroslaw WiadomoAAAe napisana przez dc w dniu 16 gru 2014, o godz. 10:00: Dear Jaroslaw, I'd appreciate very much also the French version. With thanks in advance, and all best wishes from France. Dennis Le 16/12/2014 09:30, JarosAAaw Lipski A(c)crit : Hi David, I have a French version in pdf. Do let me know if you'd like a copy. All the best Jaroslaw WiadomoAAAe napisana przez David van Ooijen w dniu 16 gru 2014, o godz. 08:52: Dear collected wisdom Can someone point me to an English (or German, French or, why not?, Dutch) translation of Piccinini's fmous preface. Any hints much appreciated. David *** David van Ooijen [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:[3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. [4]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?download=piccinini-instructions.pdf 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: preface Piccinini in English?
[1]http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?download=piccinini-instructions.pdf Le Mardi 16 dA(c)cembre 2014 8h55, David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com a A(c)crit : Dear collected wisdom Can someone point me to an English (or German, French or, why not?, Dutch) translation of Piccinini's fmous preface. Any hints much appreciated. David *** David van Ooijen [1][2]davidvanooi...@gmail.com [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl *** -- References 1. mailto:[3]davidvanooi...@gmail.com 2. [4]http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?download=piccinini-instructions.pdf 2. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 3. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com 4. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
Thomas: Both of Donington's books have essentially the same relatively limited information: The only specifically French reference is Charles Masson, Nouveau traité de regles de composition de la musique, Paris 1699, the sarabande is taken gravely (gravement) Mace, 1676, says Serabands are of the Shortest Triple-Time; but are more Toyish, and Light, than Corantoes; and commonly of Two Strains Philips, The New World of Words, in 1658 defines Saraband as Lesson or Air Musick going with a quick time. The fifth edition (1696) of the book omits the tempo indication, and the copy of the first edition in the British Museum has a handwritten correction (possibly from around 1719) where the word quick is crossed out and changed to slow. The general impression is that the tempo slowed late in the 17th century. Regards, Daniel -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Thomas Walker Sent: 15 December, 2014 14:03 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] those sarabands Greetings all-- I know the sarabande was originally a lively ditty which morphed pretty thoroughly by the late 17th century. I have a question about the middle ground, in particular the sarabandes found in Ballard's prints from the 1630s, though. Many seem to work whether played lively or stately, and I know of an old Bailes recording where he positively burns through a sarabande by Mesangeau. I also have played sarabands in ensemble works by Jenkins et al that demanded a lively reading. The question is, what textual evidence do we have for expected tempi of sarabandes of the French school 1610-1640? Thank you kindly, Thomas Walker, Jr. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMHB0OyI+PHAgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB 0O21h cmdpbi10b3A6MDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjA7Ij48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE wcHQ7 Ij5JbnRlcmVzdGluZyByZWdhcmRpbmcgbGF0ZSAxN3RoIGNlbnR1cnkgc2FyYWJhbmRzIGJ 1dCBm b3IgdGhlIGVhcmxpZXIgdHlwZSBvbmx5IE1lcnNlbm5lICgxNjM2KSBzYXlzIHNvbWV0aGl uZyBw b2ludGluZyB0byBhIHF1aWNrIG9yIGxpdmVseSB0ZW1wbyBhcyBJIHJlcGxpZWQgdG8gVGh vbWFz IGJlZm9yZS4gSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IG9mIGFub3RoZXIgc291cmNlIG1lbnRpb25pbmcgdGh lIHNh cmFiYW5kIGluIHRoZSAxNjMwIHdoZW4gdGhlIEJhbGxhcmQgcHJpbnRzIHdlcmUgcmVsZWF zZWQu Jm5ic3A7PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjxwIHN0eWxlPSJmb250LXNpemU6MTJwdDttYXJnaW4tdG9 wOjA7 bWFyZ2luLWJvdHRvbTowOyI+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMHB0OyI+QmVzdCw 8L3Nw YW4+PC9wPg0KPHAgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB0O21hcmdpbi10b3A6MDttYXJnaW4 tYm90 dG9tOjA7Ij48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjEwcHQ7Ij5KZWFuLU1hcmllPGJyPjx icj4t LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLS08YnI+PGI+RnJvbTombmJzcDs8L2I+RGF uaWVs IEYuIEhlaW1hbiA8aGVpbWFuLmRhbmllbEBqdW5vLmNvbT48YnI+PGI+RGF0ZTombmJzcDs 8L2I+ MTYvMTIvMjAxNCAxNjowMjxicj48Yj5UbzombmJzcDs8L2I+J1Rob21hcyBXYWxrZXInO2x 1dGVA Y3MuZGFydG1vdXRoLmVkdTs8YnI+PGI+U3ViamVjdDombmJzcDs8L2I+W0xVVEVdIFJlOiB 0aG9z ZSBzYXJhYmFuZHM8YnI+PGJyPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8aGVpbWFuLmRhbmllbEBqdW5vLmN vbT48 cHJlPlRob21hczoNCg0KQm90aCBvZiBEb25pbmd0b24ncyBib29rcyBoYXZlIGVzc2VudGl hbGx5 IHRoZSBzYW1lIHJlbGF0aXZlbHkgbGltaXRlZA0KaW5mb3JtYXRpb246DQpUaGUgb25seSB zcGVj aWZpY2FsbHkgRnJlbmNoIHJlZmVyZW5jZSBpcyBDaGFybGVzIE1hc3NvbiwgTm91dmVhdSB 0cmFp dCZlYWN1dGU7IGRlDQpyZWdsZXMgZGUgY29tcG9zaXRpb24gZGUgbGEgbXVzaXF1ZSwgUGF yaXMg MTY5OSwgJnF1b3Q7dGhlIHNhcmFiYW5kZSBpcyB0YWtlbg0KZ3JhdmVseSAoZ3JhdmVtZW5 0KSZx dW90Ow0KTWFjZSwgMTY3Niwgc2F5cyAmcXVvdDtTZXJhYmFuZHMgYXJlIG9mIHRoZSBTaG9 ydGVz dCBUcmlwbGUtVGltZTsgYnV0IGFyZSBtb3JlDQpUb3lpc2gsIGFuZCBMaWdodCwgdGhhbiB Db3Jh bnRvZXM7IGFuZCBjb21tb25seSBvZiBUd28gU3RyYWlucyZxdW90Ow0KUGhpbGlwcywgVGh lIE5l dyBXb3JsZCBvZiBXb3JkcywgaW4gMTY1OCBkZWZpbmVzIFNhcmFiYW5kIGFzIExlc3NvbiB vciBB aXINCk11c2ljayBnb2luZyB3aXRoIGEgcXVpY2sgdGltZS4gJm5ic3A7VGhlIGZpZnRoIGV kaXRp b24gKDE2OTYpIG9mIHRoZSBib29rIG9taXRzDQp0aGUgdGVtcG8gaW5kaWNhdGlvbiwgYW5 kIHRo ZSBjb3B5IG9mIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBlZGl0aW9uIGluIHRoZSBCcml0aXNoDQpNdXNldW0gaGF zIGEg aGFuZHdyaXR0ZW4gY29ycmVjdGlvbiAocG9zc2libHkgZnJvbSBhcm91bmQgMTcxOSkgd2h lcmUg dGhlDQp3b3JkICZxdW90O3F1aWNrJnF1b3Q7IGlzIGNyb3NzZWQgb3V0IGFuZCBjaGFuZ2V kIHRv ICZxdW90O3Nsb3cuJnF1b3Q7DQoNClRoZSBnZW5lcmFsIGltcHJlc3Npb24gaXMgdGhhdCB 0aGUg dGVtcG8gc2xvd2VkIGxhdGUgaW4gdGhlIDE3dGggY2VudHVyeS4NCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0 KRGFu aWVsDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBsdXRlLWFyY0Bjcy5 kYXJ0 bW91dGguZWR1IFttYWlsdG86bHV0ZS1hcmNAY3MuZGFydG1vdXRoLmVkdV0gT24gQmVoYWx mDQpP ZiBUaG9tYXMgV2Fsa2VyDQpTZW50OiAxNSBEZWNlbWJlciwgMjAxNCAxNDowMw0KVG86IGx 1dGVA Y3MuZGFydG1vdXRoLmVkdQ0KU3ViamVjdDogW0xVVEVdIHRob3NlIHNhcmFiYW5kcw0KDQo gJm5i c3A7Jm5ic3A7R3JlZXRpbmdzIGFsbC0tDQogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7SSBrbm93IHRoZSBzYXJ hYmFu ZGUgd2FzIG9yaWdpbmFsbHkgYSBsaXZlbHkgZGl0dHkgd2hpY2ggbW9ycGhlZCBwcmV0dHk NCiAm bmJzcDsmbmJzcDt0aG9yb3VnaGx5IGJ5IHRoZSBsYXRlIDE3dGggY2VudHVyeS4gJm5ic3A 7SSBo YXZlIGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgdGhlDQogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7bWlkZGxlIGdyb3VuZCw gaW4g cGFydGljdWxhciB0aGUgc2FyYWJhbmRlcyBmb3VuZCBpbiBCYWxsYXJkJ3MgcHJpbnRzDQo gJm5i c3A7Jm5ic3A7ZnJvbSB0aGUgMTYzMHMsIHRob3VnaC4gJm5ic3A7TWFueSBzZWVtIHRvICZ xdW90 O3dvcmsmcXVvdDsgd2hldGhlciBwbGF5ZWQgbGl2ZWx5IG9yDQogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7c3R hdGVs eSwgYW5kIEkga25vdyBvZiBhbiBvbGQgQmFpbGVzIHJlY29yZGluZyB3aGVyZSBoZSBwb3N pdGl2 ZWx5DQogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7YnVybnMgdGhyb3VnaCBhIHNhcmFiYW5kZSBieSBNZXNhbmd lYXUu ICZuYnNwO0kgYWxzbyBoYXZlIHBsYXllZCBzYXJhYmFuZHMNCiAmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDtpbiB lbnNl bWJsZSB3b3JrcyBieSBKZW5raW5zIGV0IGFsIHRoYXQgZGVtYW5kZWQgYSBsaXZlbHkgcmV hZGlu Zy4NCiAmbmJzcDsmbmJzcDtUaGUgcXVlc3Rpb24gaXMsIHdoYXQgdGV4dHVhbCBldmlkZW5 jZSBk byB3ZSBoYXZlIGZvciBleHBlY3RlZCB0ZW1waSBvZg0KICZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO3NhcmFiYW5 kZXMg b2YgdGhlIEZyZW5jaCBzY2hvb2wgMTYxMC0xNjQwPw0KICZuYnNwOyZuYnNwO1RoYW5rIHl vdSBr aW5kbHksDQogJm5ic3A7Jm5ic3A7VGhvbWFzIFdhbGtlciwgSnIuDQoNCiAmbmJzcDsmbmJ zcDst LQ0KDQoNClRvIGdldCBvbiBvciBvZmYgdGhpcyBsaXN0IHNlZSBsaXN0IGluZm9ybWF0aW9 uIGF0 DQpodHRwOi8vd3d3LmNzLmRhcnRtb3V0aC5lZHUvfndiYy9sdXRlLWFkbWluL2luZGV4Lmh 0bWwN Cg0KDQoNCjwvcHJlPjwvc3Bhbj4 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
97Pqi! F6zsdf+dsfu9u8w4r! :-) On 16.12.2014 16:22, jmpoirier2 wrote: PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMHB0OyI+PHAgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB 0O21h cmdpbi10b3A6MDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjA7Ij48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE wcHQ7 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
Jean-Marie was trying to say - Interesting regarding late 17th century sarabands but for the earlier type only Mersenne (1636) says something pointing to a quick or lively tempo as I replied to Thomas before. I don't know of another source mentioning the saraband in the 1630 when the Ballard prints were released. Best, Jean-Marie Begin forwarded message: Date: December 16, 2014 at 2:18:00 PM EST To: jmpoirier2 jmpoiri...@wanadoo.fr, Daniel F. Heiman heiman.dan...@juno.com, 'Thomas Walker' twlute...@hotmail.com, lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: Bernd Haegemann b...@symbol4.de Subject: [LUTE] Re: those sarabands 97Pqi! F6zsdf+dsfu9u8w4r! :-) On 16.12.2014 16:22, jmpoirier2 wrote: PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMHB0OyI+PHAgc3R5bGU9ImZvbnQtc2l6ZToxMnB 0O21h cmdpbi10b3A6MDttYXJnaW4tYm90dG9tOjA7Ij48c3BhbiBzdHlsZT0iZm9udC1zaXplOjE wcHQ7 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: those sarabands
Hello Thomas: A good modernish source of information can be found in D. J. Buch, The Influence of the Ballet de cour in the Genesis of the French Baroque Suite, Acta Musicologica, Vol. 57, Fasc. 1 (Jan. - Jun., 1985), pp. 94-109. The saraband is discussed on page 102. Since so much 17th-century lute music consisted of boiled-down versions of popular dance tunes, it important to know how a particular dance worked in it's original context. Then one has to realize that, since lutes are and were inaudible when dancer's feet scrape the floor, the music is adapted and performed in whatever manner the player wishes. RA Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2014 14:03:13 -0600 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu From: twlute...@hotmail.com Subject: [LUTE] those sarabands Greetings all-- I know the sarabande was originally a lively ditty which morphed pretty thoroughly by the late 17th century. I have a question about the middle ground, in particular the sarabandes found in Ballard's prints from the 1630s, though. Many seem to work whether played lively or stately, and I know of an old Bailes recording where he positively burns through a sarabande by Mesangeau. I also have played sarabands in ensemble works by Jenkins et al that demanded a lively reading. The question is, what textual evidence do we have for expected tempi of sarabandes of the French school 1610-1640? Thank you kindly, Thomas Walker, Jr. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
[LUTE] Identity Theft in Georgian London?
I had a go at writing a sort of blog post using WordPress. Although the topic is an obscure publication for the 18th century wire-strung guittar it's an intriguing little enigma and still not resolved. http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/blog/ Stuart --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Identity Theft in Georgian London?
Stuart, I've just read your interesting essay, and, if I may, I'd like to say a word or two... The two parts you highlight in red in the Con Spirito of Serenata II are very easy to play in C Major tuning - Oswald has many such passages - they fit easily under the fingers. What is difficult about the interval d-f? That works out to be the 2nd fret on the 6th string, and the 1st fret on the 5th string. I can't for the life of me understand why you call that awkward, quite difficult to play, and doesn't sound very well.A There are many moments in the Serenatas which sound more like Oswald's Divertimentis than lots of other guittar music of the time. Compare the octave passage in the Con Spirito with the 7th Divertimenti of Oswald, for example. And compare the Largo opening with Divertimento 11.A I must have played through literally hundreds of pages of guittar music, and can say with some confidence that the composer of the 12 and 18 divertimenti haunts the 12 Serenatas.A And why did you quote at length the worst biography of Oswald ever compiled? That Blagger's Guide does not help your case, I'd say. But your point is that Oswald was a chancer - a bit crude, but I tend to agree. He knew what sold. But he also wrote some of the finest guittar music. The best biography of Oswald is by Dr John Purser, and accompanies his CD-Rom publication of Oswald's Caledonian Pocket Companion.A No matter, I welcome your essay, especially as we seem to arrive at the same conclusion, that Oswald did write these pieces.A If anyone wants to see the scores and hear the guittar music of Oswald, they are welcome to visit my website devoted to the instrument:A [1]http://scottishguittar.comA - there is much on the site already, and much more to come. Rob MacKillop On 16 December 2014 at 23:37, WALSH STUART [2]s.wa...@ntlworld.com wrote: I had a go at writing a sort of blog post using WordPress. Although the topic is an obscure publication for the 18th century wire-strung guittar it's an intriguing little enigma and still not resolved. [3]http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/blog/ Stuart --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. [4]http://www.avast.com To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://scottishguittar.com/ 2. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 3. http://www.tuningsinthirds.com/blog/ 4. http://www.avast.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
