Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
On 01:51 PM 20/12/2001 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support said: >Oh, well. Bad ideas never die. They just get recycled :-(Or reborn. >Hey, maybe that's why they call it "Phoenix"! > >IMO, most all-in-one files suck. Does the Windows registry come to mind? I agree with this statement, mostly. >Corruption of a single file can ruin the whole system and it's applications. >The all-in-one file concept has been refuted long ago. Look at the >Unix/Linux system: lots of little configuration files. It's hard to >remember where they are, but at least you don't have to search through >unrelated stuff inside the file, and corruption of that one file won't ruin >the entire system. I disagree with this one - the Unix/Linux arrangement of many interacting config files in multiple places is not an example I would like to see propagated - think why *nix is only used by computer geeks. Not a model that can claim wide success. It will take a radical improvement in installing and maintaining the OS, and managing and installing applications before *nix enjoys wide success with the wider non-geek public. I will happily follw this part of this thread onto the OT list for ongoing (reasoned) discussion - and my re-education :-) I much prefer the INI file concept - but not stored in the Windows directory. It has always been pleasing to me that Protel largely eschewed the registry in favour of its various INI/RCS files. Now we just need them to allow us to control where the config files reside. This is where the registry may have some use. A central data store of pointers to the locations of program's config file locations. (In the registry's favour - it is much faster than ini file access, but it is good to know that many companies (including MS) are moving away from indiscriminate use of the Registry as the be-all-and-end-all.) I do accept that the *nix style config files can be smarter the simple INI files and there are sometimes advantages to this. I just hate the scatter gun approach to configuration that has developed and seems not to have been questioned during *nix's growth. >However, I do like Protel's DDB file, for the most part. The only thing I >can't stand about it is that if you merely open it to look at what's inside, >it updates the file date and time. Ridiculous! One assumes that with the "Support for full version control with interfaces to popular third-party version control tools such as Visual Source Safe" there is some method of storing files that does not twiddle the dates on view-only. There is a press release on the Protel WWW site as well as the EE Times article, the press release gives some different emphasis. On integrated libraries - I have no problem with the concept of integrated libraries - it really comes down to implementation, and whether it will *force* a pattern of use rather than allow a new pattern. One assumes it will be able to support old designs, so maybe there is a method of using separate libraries much as we do now. Better library management and traceability has been something that many of us have been screaming for for a long time. The current system does not lend itself to any sort of reliable configuration control. Can you say for sure which library a symbol/footprint came from? I, for one, am not fussed by the integrated libraries per se but, as usual, the devil is no doubt in the detail. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
Sean, I hope you charge this guy by the hour!! -Original Message- From: Sean James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:27 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter To quote Mike Reagan - "What could be simpler and faster than create a part, import a netlist that associates the part, the netlist assigns the Ref designator? I don't get it. I'm just a simpleton." I cna't convince a engineer to do his boards & schematics this way, so it takes forever to create/clean up his schematics, etc. It's a waste of time 7 money not to use the software properly. Sean James PCB Designer Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc. 102 Grove Street Worcester, MA 01605 (TEL) 508.754.4858 x33 (FAX) 413.541.6170 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
To quote Mike Reagan - "What could be simpler and faster than create a part, import a netlist that associates the part, the netlist assigns the Ref designator? I don't get it. I'm just a simpleton." I cna't convince a engineer to do his boards & schematics this way, so it takes forever to create/clean up his schematics, etc. It's a waste of time 7 money not to use the software properly. Sean James PCB Designer Telecast Fiber Systems, Inc. 102 Grove Street Worcester, MA 01605 (TEL) 508.754.4858 x33 (FAX) 413.541.6170 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
Oh, well. Bad ideas never die. They just get recycled :-(Or reborn. Hey, maybe that's why they call it "Phoenix"! IMO, most all-in-one files suck. Does the Windows registry come to mind? Corruption of a single file can ruin the whole system and it's applications. The all-in-one file concept has been refuted long ago. Look at the Unix/Linux system: lots of little configuration files. It's hard to remember where they are, but at least you don't have to search through unrelated stuff inside the file, and corruption of that one file won't ruin the entire system. However, I do like Protel's DDB file, for the most part. The only thing I can't stand about it is that if you merely open it to look at what's inside, it updates the file date and time. Ridiculous! Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Bob Fearon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 1:41 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter > Mike > You are right. But does this "Integrated" library sound like a "copy" of Pads? > You know the "all-in-one library", that can"t be used. > Of course the "Manager" concept comes from Accel, oh yeah. > Sounds like a staight marketing scheme. > > Bob Fearon > > > Mike Reagan wrote: > > > Great! They are also integrating the library probably like the integration > > nightmare in ACCEL.Right now I can create a part, store it, create and > > copy separate customer libraries, import netlist from other programs, with > > or without a part assignment. Somehow one of these features will be > > lost with the new "INTEGRATED" library.They are attempting to sell > > software to managers instead of designers. Someone got a bug somewhere > > along the line that integrated libs are best. Oh did I mention the > > simplicity of creating a part and not having to play and dick with all of > > the silly worthless menus afterwards. Like assigning it to CON, or IC like > > PADS. or stupid prefixes like R or C, U etc like Accel. It means more time > > to create a part. > > > > What could be simpler and faster than create a part, import a netlist that > > associates the part, the netlist assigns the Ref designator? I don't get > > it. I'm just a simpleton. > > The autorouter is welcomed! The lib manager is overhead.That right the > > name is lib MANAGER, that's all I need is to spend more time managing. > > > > Mike Reagan > > EDSI > > Frederick MD > > > > - Original Message - > > From: Jim Labrecque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:17 PM > > Subject: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter > > > > > Press release in EE Times- > > > > > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/design/OEG20011210S0059 > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
Mike You are right. But does this "Integrated" library sound like a "copy" of Pads? You know the "all-in-one library", that can"t be used. Of course the "Manager" concept comes from Accel, oh yeah. Sounds like a staight marketing scheme. Bob Fearon Mike Reagan wrote: > Great! They are also integrating the library probably like the integration > nightmare in ACCEL.Right now I can create a part, store it, create and > copy separate customer libraries, import netlist from other programs, with > or without a part assignment. Somehow one of these features will be > lost with the new "INTEGRATED" library.They are attempting to sell > software to managers instead of designers. Someone got a bug somewhere > along the line that integrated libs are best. Oh did I mention the > simplicity of creating a part and not having to play and dick with all of > the silly worthless menus afterwards. Like assigning it to CON, or IC like > PADS. or stupid prefixes like R or C, U etc like Accel. It means more time > to create a part. > > What could be simpler and faster than create a part, import a netlist that > associates the part, the netlist assigns the Ref designator? I don't get > it. I'm just a simpleton. > The autorouter is welcomed! The lib manager is overhead.That right the > name is lib MANAGER, that's all I need is to spend more time managing. > > Mike Reagan > EDSI > Frederick MD > > - Original Message - > From: Jim Labrecque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:17 PM > Subject: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter > > > Press release in EE Times- > > > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/design/OEG20011210S0059 > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
Great! They are also integrating the library probably like the integration nightmare in ACCEL.Right now I can create a part, store it, create and copy separate customer libraries, import netlist from other programs, with or without a part assignment. Somehow one of these features will be lost with the new "INTEGRATED" library.They are attempting to sell software to managers instead of designers. Someone got a bug somewhere along the line that integrated libs are best. Oh did I mention the simplicity of creating a part and not having to play and dick with all of the silly worthless menus afterwards. Like assigning it to CON, or IC like PADS. or stupid prefixes like R or C, U etc like Accel. It means more time to create a part. What could be simpler and faster than create a part, import a netlist that associates the part, the netlist assigns the Ref designator? I don't get it. I'm just a simpleton. The autorouter is welcomed! The lib manager is overhead.That right the name is lib MANAGER, that's all I need is to spend more time managing. Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD - Original Message - From: Jim Labrecque <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Protel EDA Forum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2001 12:17 PM Subject: [PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter > Press release in EE Times- > > http://www.eetimes.com/story/design/OEG20011210S0059 > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Altium preps topological autorouter
Press release in EE Times- http://www.eetimes.com/story/design/OEG20011210S0059 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
