Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Matthew J]

> If I'm doing a longer ride, I'll put on the padded wool shorts.  It's not 
just the padding that helps on longer rides. Loose-fitting 
> pants/shorts rubbing for more than a few hours will eventually cause 
abrasions.  Seems to be physics (friction?).  
 
My tolerance weakness is overheating.  When I did my Northern Tier cross 
country tour, the first week or so I wore padded shorts fearing accumulated 
abrasion.  They were fine, if odd on the Pac Coast and mountains.  When I 
came into the hot northern plains the padding seemed to add to the heat 
effect.  A couple hours in and my shorts were soaked.  
 
Dropping the pads in favor of unpadded looser fitting light weight 
shorts kept me cooler and did not lead to any extreme abrasion.  
 
By the time I reached the Black Hills I tossed the padded shorts and bought 
a couple pair of running shorts which (just barely) held up through to 
Boston.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Brian Hanson]

To me this is a question of time in the saddle.  If I'm commuting or on a
ride up to about 25 miles, normal shorts/undies are fine (though I still
find cotton lousy due to lack of wicking).  If I'm doing a longer ride,
I'll put on the padded wool shorts.  It's not just the padding that helps
on longer rides. Loose-fitting pants/shorts rubbing for more than a few
hours will eventually cause abrasions.  Seems to be physics (friction?).  I
am guessing that everyone has a different "thick-skin" threshold.  It's
like wool - some folks can't wear it without major itch.

Brian
Seattle, WA


On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 3:10 PM, Eric Platt  wrote:

> Another data point.  I was in the habit of wearing padded short liners on
> a hammock saddle.  Then a while went with just underwear.  Because of the
> way I sit on the rear cantle of the saddle, this ended up causing a
> physical problem.  Moved over to an older Terry saddle and the problem went
> away with padded shorts.
>
> Starting this year, decided to try the hammock with padded again.
> Unfortunately the same physical issue appeared.  Once again back to the
> Terry and no problem.
>
> It could be the issues had nothing to do with the change of clothing, but
> after having it happen twice, am not going to risk it again.  Just as
> likely it is my excessive weight on the saddle causing the issue.
> Eric Platt
> St. Paul, MN
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 2013-06-19 at 13:34 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
>> > > I've been using padded shorts with hammock saddles for 40 years.
>> >
>> > Context, please.  Would you have an adverse reaction if not?  I do not
>> > wear padded shorts and hammock saddles are the only saddle that work
>> > for me.
>>
>> I will never forget my first century attempt.  1973, shorts that are cut
>> off denim jeans with Y fronts underneath, no gloves, sneakers.  By the
>> time I got to mile 75 there was no part of me that came into contact
>> with the bike that didn't hurt.  Hands were on fire; feet were in pain
>> from where the top clips pressed on my big toe nails and where the front
>> and back edges of the Campagnolo pedals had dug trenches into them; and
>> I developed a new understanding of the Johnny Cash song "Burning Ring of
>> Fire" that I've never been able to forget.
>>
>> I started wearing riding shorts after that ride.  Gloves and cycling
>> shoes, too.
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Eric Platt]

Another data point.  I was in the habit of wearing padded short liners on a
hammock saddle.  Then a while went with just underwear.  Because of the way
I sit on the rear cantle of the saddle, this ended up causing a physical
problem.  Moved over to an older Terry saddle and the problem went away
with padded shorts.

Starting this year, decided to try the hammock with padded again.
Unfortunately the same physical issue appeared.  Once again back to the
Terry and no problem.

It could be the issues had nothing to do with the change of clothing, but
after having it happen twice, am not going to risk it again.  Just as
likely it is my excessive weight on the saddle causing the issue.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN


On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 4:06 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> On Wed, 2013-06-19 at 13:34 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> > > I've been using padded shorts with hammock saddles for 40 years.
> >
> > Context, please.  Would you have an adverse reaction if not?  I do not
> > wear padded shorts and hammock saddles are the only saddle that work
> > for me.
>
> I will never forget my first century attempt.  1973, shorts that are cut
> off denim jeans with Y fronts underneath, no gloves, sneakers.  By the
> time I got to mile 75 there was no part of me that came into contact
> with the bike that didn't hurt.  Hands were on fire; feet were in pain
> from where the top clips pressed on my big toe nails and where the front
> and back edges of the Campagnolo pedals had dug trenches into them; and
> I developed a new understanding of the Johnny Cash song "Burning Ring of
> Fire" that I've never been able to forget.
>
> I started wearing riding shorts after that ride.  Gloves and cycling
> shoes, too.
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Peter Morgano]

"Is Brooks having financial troubles?  The amount of new products coming
out of Brooks the last few years has been impressive."

I work in the financial sector and every company outside of super exclusive
brands wants to expand their customer base and therefore profits, pretty
simple capitalism at work.


On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 5:20 PM, Matthew J  wrote:

> Human factors are fascinating.  Certainly respect that you made it work
> rather than give up.
>
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>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Matthew J]

Human factors are fascinating.  Certainly respect that you made it work 
rather than give up.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-06-19 at 13:34 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> > I've been using padded shorts with hammock saddles for 40 years.   
> 
> Context, please.  Would you have an adverse reaction if not?  I do not
> wear padded shorts and hammock saddles are the only saddle that work
> for me.

I will never forget my first century attempt.  1973, shorts that are cut
off denim jeans with Y fronts underneath, no gloves, sneakers.  By the
time I got to mile 75 there was no part of me that came into contact
with the bike that didn't hurt.  Hands were on fire; feet were in pain
from where the top clips pressed on my big toe nails and where the front
and back edges of the Campagnolo pedals had dug trenches into them; and
I developed a new understanding of the Johnny Cash song "Burning Ring of
Fire" that I've never been able to forget.

I started wearing riding shorts after that ride.  Gloves and cycling
shoes, too.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Matthew J]

> I've been using padded shorts with hammock saddles for 40 years.   

Context, please.  Would you have an adverse reaction if not?  I do not wear 
padded shorts and hammock saddles are the only saddle that work for me.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Steve Palincsar]

On Wed, 2013-06-19 at 07:02 -0700, Matthew J wrote:
> On the commute today I noticed something - or more correctly thought
> of something I notice every day in a new light.  
>  
> That is, the high percentage of people using plastic shell style
> saddles who wear padded shorts.  Reading accounts of cycle tourers
> back in the 70's through even the 90's, it is glaring how few people
> then wore padded shorts on tour.  Padded shorts were for racers who
> trained day in day out.  Not for commuters, casual riders, or even
> people doing an annual multi-day or even cross country tour.
>  
> The cycling market has become so accustumed to padded shorts that no
> one asks what is it about most modern saddles that require special
> clothing for use?  I think those of us who use hammock saddles know
> the answer.

I've been using padded shorts with hammock saddles for 40 years.  



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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Deacon Patrick]

Bummer! Brutal! Bad, bad, belligerent buffooned bus! Glad the ride was a 
good one though!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, June 9, 2013 11:14:52 PM UTC-6, Statrixbob wrote:
>
> And now the final bit, at least for now. I rode the new C-17 Cambium from 
> Honolulu to Haleiwa (73.5 miles from where I started to where I stopped). 
>
> The saddle was fine and my rump doesn't feel like it had a bad time of it. 
> I think that I might have been slightly more comfortable with one of my 
> reliable B-17s (like the I did this ride with on Memorial Day). On the 
> other hand it may simple be the way I was feeling today. I'd really have to 
> A/B this several times to report reliably. 
>
> The saddle did pick up a bit of dirt today, mostly from my hands though I 
> tried to be careful. It is the natural color version and this wouldn't be 
> an issue with black or another darker color.
>
> So far so good with the Cambium. I think it's really going to come down to 
> a matter of taste as to whether one likes this thing or not. I'm not going 
> to switch out all my leather saddles for the C-17, but I'm finding it to be 
> a quality product that's comfortable without break-in, looks good if it's 
> to your taste, and doesn't involve livestock.
>
> The ride itself was nice. I had a couple of mechanical issues after 60 or 
> so miles. I started hearing a lot of rattling. On my RIvs that's pretty 
> rare so I slowed and tried to narrow down the noise. Turns out that, even 
> though I did use beeswax, one of my bottle cages had loosened. Not a 
> biggie. A couple turns with a handy tool and I was off
>
> ...only to find that I could seem to select certain gears and when I tried 
> I heard...a lot of rattling. Hmmm...this seemed a bit more serious so I 
> immediately pulled over. Looking down at the rear derailleur I discovered 
> that  a bit of wire had wrapped itself around the rear cassette. It took a 
> couple of minutes to untangle but didn't do any damage. Once I took off my 
> gears worked normally and everything was silent again.
>
> When I got to Haleiwa I had a quick smoothie and then sat outside at a 
> Thai place so I could get a nice bowl of Tom Ka - Thai coconut based soup. 
> Yum. Just thing after a long ride.
>
> I then hopped the regular bus (all our buses have bike racks) and my 
> troubles really began. I had no trouble putting bike in the rack, fit fine 
> and the springed loop was tight around my front wheel. The driver braked 
> and moved and braked while I was trying pay and I figured, "Oh great, a 
> cowboy."
>
> How right I was. This guy really braked hard, cornered poorly, and I swear 
> he hunted out potholes (though I won't put that one in my complaint). 
>
> In any case as we approached town (after 30 miles? of cowboy driving) he 
> called out and said, "You'd better get your bike, you didn't put it on 
> properly." BS. In any case, the springed loop was off and my biking was 
> leaning forward pretty far. I secured it and had to endure a lecture from 
> the driver on using bungie cords (I've never needed one before btw). 
> Finally I just said fine, I'll take my bike. I took it off, he drove away 
> and I discovered I was f'd.
>
> The bike had leaned so far forward it has actually damaged my rear rim. It 
> wobbled something fierce and I figured I'd have to true it up. I wish. As 
> it turns out the rim was actually cracked. It didn't look particularly safe 
> to ride, but after opening the back brake I gave it a try and decided that 
> as it was broken anyway I might as well try to get home the final 6 miles. 
> It held. Not something I'd really want to do but I take really low traffic 
> streets so I figured it was better than walking.
>
> I've got a few photos from the ride today and you can see a couple 
> pictures of the rim taken after the fact.
>
> When I got home I switched seat posts and saddles with the Quickbeam so I 
> can ride to work tomorrow. I'll take a few pictures of how it looks on the 
> QB and let everyone know how I like it on a single speed.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgps-bob/sets/72157634040592240/
>
> Aloha 
>
> Broken Wheel Bob
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Ron Mc  >wrote:
>
>> C17 si also officially a composite material - I think you nailed it 
>> there, Doug - the frame is aluminum instead of steel.  This saddle will 
>> open up a market to them.  They are not expecting to lose us over this 
>> saddle, they're expecting to gain others.  
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't see the Cambium replacing my B17 Select anytime soon. But 
>>> then...what does it weigh? I wonder if the Cambium might break into the "I 
>>> like Brooks but they are too heavy" market?
>>>  
>>> I wonder what a C17 on titanium rails would weigh? Perhaps Brooks could 
>>> sell them to the carbon crowd?
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 6, 2013 7:13:12 PM UTC-7, Statrixbob wrote:
>>>
 I was chosen as one of the first 10

Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Ron Mc]

thanks for the report - now I'm jonesing better thai food than we can get 
here...

On Monday, June 10, 2013 12:14:52 AM UTC-5, Statrixbob wrote:
>
> And now the final bit, at least for now. I rode the new C-17 Cambium from 
> Honolulu to Haleiwa (73.5 miles from where I started to where I stopped). 
>
> The saddle was fine and my rump doesn't feel like it had a bad time of it. 
> I think that I might have been slightly more comfortable with one of my 
> reliable B-17s (like the I did this ride with on Memorial Day). On the 
> other hand it may simple be the way I was feeling today. I'd really have to 
> A/B this several times to report reliably. 
>
> The saddle did pick up a bit of dirt today, mostly from my hands though I 
> tried to be careful. It is the natural color version and this wouldn't be 
> an issue with black or another darker color.
>
> So far so good with the Cambium. I think it's really going to come down to 
> a matter of taste as to whether one likes this thing or not. I'm not going 
> to switch out all my leather saddles for the C-17, but I'm finding it to be 
> a quality product that's comfortable without break-in, looks good if it's 
> to your taste, and doesn't involve livestock.
>
> The ride itself was nice. I had a couple of mechanical issues after 60 or 
> so miles. I started hearing a lot of rattling. On my RIvs that's pretty 
> rare so I slowed and tried to narrow down the noise. Turns out that, even 
> though I did use beeswax, one of my bottle cages had loosened. Not a 
> biggie. A couple turns with a handy tool and I was off
>
> ...only to find that I could seem to select certain gears and when I tried 
> I heard...a lot of rattling. Hmmm...this seemed a bit more serious so I 
> immediately pulled over. Looking down at the rear derailleur I discovered 
> that  a bit of wire had wrapped itself around the rear cassette. It took a 
> couple of minutes to untangle but didn't do any damage. Once I took off my 
> gears worked normally and everything was silent again.
>
> When I got to Haleiwa I had a quick smoothie and then sat outside at a 
> Thai place so I could get a nice bowl of Tom Ka - Thai coconut based soup. 
> Yum. Just thing after a long ride.
>
> I then hopped the regular bus (all our buses have bike racks) and my 
> troubles really began. I had no trouble putting bike in the rack, fit fine 
> and the springed loop was tight around my front wheel. The driver braked 
> and moved and braked while I was trying pay and I figured, "Oh great, a 
> cowboy."
>
> How right I was. This guy really braked hard, cornered poorly, and I swear 
> he hunted out potholes (though I won't put that one in my complaint). 
>
> In any case as we approached town (after 30 miles? of cowboy driving) he 
> called out and said, "You'd better get your bike, you didn't put it on 
> properly." BS. In any case, the springed loop was off and my biking was 
> leaning forward pretty far. I secured it and had to endure a lecture from 
> the driver on using bungie cords (I've never needed one before btw). 
> Finally I just said fine, I'll take my bike. I took it off, he drove away 
> and I discovered I was f'd.
>
> The bike had leaned so far forward it has actually damaged my rear rim. It 
> wobbled something fierce and I figured I'd have to true it up. I wish. As 
> it turns out the rim was actually cracked. It didn't look particularly safe 
> to ride, but after opening the back brake I gave it a try and decided that 
> as it was broken anyway I might as well try to get home the final 6 miles. 
> It held. Not something I'd really want to do but I take really low traffic 
> streets so I figured it was better than walking.
>
> I've got a few photos from the ride today and you can see a couple 
> pictures of the rim taken after the fact.
>
> When I got home I switched seat posts and saddles with the Quickbeam so I 
> can ride to work tomorrow. I'll take a few pictures of how it looks on the 
> QB and let everyone know how I like it on a single speed.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgps-bob/sets/72157634040592240/
>
> Aloha 
>
> Broken Wheel Bob
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Ron Mc  >wrote:
>
>> C17 si also officially a composite material - I think you nailed it 
>> there, Doug - the frame is aluminum instead of steel.  This saddle will 
>> open up a market to them.  They are not expecting to lose us over this 
>> saddle, they're expecting to gain others.  
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't see the Cambium replacing my B17 Select anytime soon. But 
>>> then...what does it weigh? I wonder if the Cambium might break into the "I 
>>> like Brooks but they are too heavy" market?
>>>  
>>> I wonder what a C17 on titanium rails would weigh? Perhaps Brooks could 
>>> sell them to the carbon crowd?
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 6, 2013 7:13:12 PM UTC-7, Statrixbob wrote:
>>>
 I was chosen as one of the first 100 folks to receive a Brooks Ca

Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Robert F. Harrison]

And now the final bit, at least for now. I rode the new C-17 Cambium from
Honolulu to Haleiwa (73.5 miles from where I started to where I stopped).

The saddle was fine and my rump doesn't feel like it had a bad time of it.
I think that I might have been slightly more comfortable with one of my
reliable B-17s (like the I did this ride with on Memorial Day). On the
other hand it may simple be the way I was feeling today. I'd really have to
A/B this several times to report reliably.

The saddle did pick up a bit of dirt today, mostly from my hands though I
tried to be careful. It is the natural color version and this wouldn't be
an issue with black or another darker color.

So far so good with the Cambium. I think it's really going to come down to
a matter of taste as to whether one likes this thing or not. I'm not going
to switch out all my leather saddles for the C-17, but I'm finding it to be
a quality product that's comfortable without break-in, looks good if it's
to your taste, and doesn't involve livestock.

The ride itself was nice. I had a couple of mechanical issues after 60 or
so miles. I started hearing a lot of rattling. On my RIvs that's pretty
rare so I slowed and tried to narrow down the noise. Turns out that, even
though I did use beeswax, one of my bottle cages had loosened. Not a
biggie. A couple turns with a handy tool and I was off

...only to find that I could seem to select certain gears and when I tried
I heard...a lot of rattling. Hmmm...this seemed a bit more serious so I
immediately pulled over. Looking down at the rear derailleur I discovered
that  a bit of wire had wrapped itself around the rear cassette. It took a
couple of minutes to untangle but didn't do any damage. Once I took off my
gears worked normally and everything was silent again.

When I got to Haleiwa I had a quick smoothie and then sat outside at a Thai
place so I could get a nice bowl of Tom Ka - Thai coconut based soup. Yum.
Just thing after a long ride.

I then hopped the regular bus (all our buses have bike racks) and my
troubles really began. I had no trouble putting bike in the rack, fit fine
and the springed loop was tight around my front wheel. The driver braked
and moved and braked while I was trying pay and I figured, "Oh great, a
cowboy."

How right I was. This guy really braked hard, cornered poorly, and I swear
he hunted out potholes (though I won't put that one in my complaint).

In any case as we approached town (after 30 miles? of cowboy driving) he
called out and said, "You'd better get your bike, you didn't put it on
properly." BS. In any case, the springed loop was off and my biking was
leaning forward pretty far. I secured it and had to endure a lecture from
the driver on using bungie cords (I've never needed one before btw).
Finally I just said fine, I'll take my bike. I took it off, he drove away
and I discovered I was f'd.

The bike had leaned so far forward it has actually damaged my rear rim. It
wobbled something fierce and I figured I'd have to true it up. I wish. As
it turns out the rim was actually cracked. It didn't look particularly safe
to ride, but after opening the back brake I gave it a try and decided that
as it was broken anyway I might as well try to get home the final 6 miles.
It held. Not something I'd really want to do but I take really low traffic
streets so I figured it was better than walking.

I've got a few photos from the ride today and you can see a couple pictures
of the rim taken after the fact.

When I got home I switched seat posts and saddles with the Quickbeam so I
can ride to work tomorrow. I'll take a few pictures of how it looks on the
QB and let everyone know how I like it on a single speed.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgps-bob/sets/72157634040592240/

Aloha

Broken Wheel Bob




On Sun, Jun 9, 2013 at 12:21 AM, Ron Mc  wrote:

> C17 si also officially a composite material - I think you nailed it there,
> Doug - the frame is aluminum instead of steel.  This saddle will open up a
> market to them.  They are not expecting to lose us over this saddle,
> they're expecting to gain others.
>
>
> On Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:02:18 PM UTC-5, Doug Williams wrote:
>>
>> I can't see the Cambium replacing my B17 Select anytime soon. But
>> then...what does it weigh? I wonder if the Cambium might break into the "I
>> like Brooks but they are too heavy" market?
>>
>> I wonder what a C17 on titanium rails would weigh? Perhaps Brooks could
>> sell them to the carbon crowd?
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 6, 2013 7:13:12 PM UTC-7, Statrixbob wrote:
>>
>>> I was chosen as one of the first 100 folks to receive a Brooks Cambium
>>> C-17 saddle. Mine just arrived today and while I haven't yet mounted it on
>>> a bike (probably my daily ride, the Hunq), I did take some pictures to
>>> "prove it happened."
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/**mgps-bob/sets/**72157633977211833/
>>>
>>> I generally ride the B-17 model an

Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Matthew J]

> I spoke them a a few years ago about saddles and tires and they indicated 
they either were or are making some, but they were not firm about it. It 
was quite odd really. 

Believe for a while Avocet would only sell them in groups for teams.  Not 
sure why they have such a catch as catch can approach to their marketing.


>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Chris Halasz]

If anyone's interested in an O2 W (I interpreted the suffixes as W for 
wide, M for medium, and R for racing), I have a very good condition - 
newish - later version, in Ti and leather, of course. 

The later version has the more accentuated padding and cutout. 

Cheers, 

Chris 

On Saturday, June 8, 2013 9:07:19 AM UTC-7, Mojo wrote:
>
> Thank you Bob for reviewing and posting. So you like it! One thing I 
> noticed is the overall shape is different. Yes it looks 17cm wide at the 
> back, but the back is not flat but curved, and the back-to-front profile 
> doesn't look like it has the dip. Both of these features seem important to 
> me. But you don't miss them? Or am I not analyzing the saddle correctly 
> from your photos? 
>  
> So far I have found the Avocet O2 women's saddle seems to best emulate the 
> B17 in a plastic saddle. Unfortunately they are few and far between and 
> when you find them, they're often in bad shape 
> http://compare.ebay.com/like/360660973043?var=lv  
>
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Robert F. Harrison]

On Sat, Jun 8, 2013 at 6:07 AM, Mojo  wrote:

> Thank you Bob for reviewing and posting. So you like it! One thing I
> noticed is the overall shape is different. Yes it looks 17cm wide at the
> back, but the back is not flat but curved, and the back-to-front profile
> doesn't look like it has the dip. Both of these features seem important to
> me. But you don't miss them? Or am I not analyzing the saddle correctly
> from your photos?
>
>

The 'dip' does appear to be missing but in practice, at least for me, it
seems that the rubber is flexible enough that when actually seated you
don't notice it - in other words, it gives a bit. Were they to engineer a
dip into the shape it would probably give too much leaving in a chasm
rather than between rolling hills as it were.

It does feel different from by B-17's but not much and not bad. So yes, I
like it. I can't say that it's better than any of my other Brooks nor can I
say much about longevity or even how I feel about it on a long ride
(tomorrow hopefully).

Aloha, Bob



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Honolulu, HI
rfharri...@gmail.com
statrix.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Garth]

Ron, the O2 saddles came in different widths, from 5.6 inches for the Men's 
racing to 7 inches for the Womens. Hence the Womens being "like" a Brooks 
in that regard. 
http://www.avocet.com/saddlepages/saddlespecs.html#anchor181086

Avocet is still in business . I spoke them a a few years ago about saddles 
and tires and they indicated they either were or are making some, but they 
were not firm about it. It was quite odd really. 


On Saturday, June 8, 2013 2:16:26 PM UTC-4, Ron Mc wrote:
>
> interesting  my buddy has a man's Avocet O2 on his original Fisher (before 
> he had to add Gary to the billboard) mountain bike.  It looks crazy narrow 
> - like 13 cm.  
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Ron Mc]

interesting  my buddy has a man's Avocet O2 on his original Fisher (before 
he had to add Gary to the billboard) mountain bike.  It looks crazy narrow 
- like 13 cm.  

On Saturday, June 8, 2013 11:07:19 AM UTC-5, Mojo wrote:
>
> Thank you Bob for reviewing and posting. So you like it! One thing I 
> noticed is the overall shape is different. Yes it looks 17cm wide at the 
> back, but the back is not flat but curved, and the back-to-front profile 
> doesn't look like it has the dip. Both of these features seem important to 
> me. But you don't miss them? Or am I not analyzing the saddle correctly 
> from your photos? 
>  
> So far I have found the Avocet O2 women's saddle seems to best emulate the 
> B17 in a plastic saddle. Unfortunately they are few and far between and 
> when you find them, they're often in bad shape 
> http://compare.ebay.com/like/360660973043?var=lv  
>
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Mojo]

Thank you Bob for reviewing and posting. So you like it! One thing I 
noticed is the overall shape is different. Yes it looks 17cm wide at the 
back, but the back is not flat but curved, and the back-to-front profile 
doesn't look like it has the dip. Both of these features seem important to 
me. But you don't miss them? Or am I not analyzing the saddle correctly 
from your photos? 
 
So far I have found the Avocet O2 women's saddle seems to best emulate the 
B17 in a plastic saddle. Unfortunately they are few and far between and 
when you find them, they're often in bad shape 
http://compare.ebay.com/like/360660973043?var=lv

Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Robert F. Harrison]

I've had a chance to take about a 10 mile ride today after work which
included a bit of climbing and, of course, some descents to go along with
the climbs.

The first couple of miles I have to admit I stopped more than started while
I tweaked the angle of the saddle. Okay, I had to stop three times to get
it right but I do believe it's good now. This isn't really any different
than any of the leather Brooks I own - always a bit finicky at first then
locked in.

Since this was an urban ride on roads that vary from freshly paved to badly
in need of help I was able to get a pretty good feel for the saddle in a
variety of conditions. Long distance will have to wait till the actual
weekend though.

My first impression on a real ride was that the saddle didn't need any
breaking in. Admittedly I'm a big guy and have never had to spend a whole
lot of time breaking in a leather Brooks. In fact my Select, stiffest of
the bunch, felt pretty good from the outset and while it has adapted a bit
since November when it was new, I've never felt uncomfortable.

That being said, the C-17 has been comfortable from the get go as well
(angle not withstanding). I can feel some give in it when going over bumps
(that I don't see - usually I use my legs as shocks on the ones I do). It
doesn't feel like it's giving to much and needs to be tightened, just a
little cushioning. I'm not sure how much lighter folks might fare but I
suspect it's all good.

In fact, once I'd adjusted the angle, the biggest thing I noticed about the
saddle is that I didn't actually notice it. Since all my bikes use one B-17
or another I'm pretty used to having more or less the same experience on
all my bikes - thus I really only notice anything when something is 'off.'

The ride was fun and I'm looking forward to giving it a longer workout this
weekend.

"Did it stick to your clothes like you thought it would?"

Umm..sort of and sort of not. The top of the saddle, the part that is
partially cloth, is fine. It doesn't stick or drag on my clothes. I tend to
wear MUSA knickers, shorts of the same sorts of materials, and Columbia
convertible pants (wear 'em long to work and shorts on the way home). I
can't say how jeans or other actual natural material might do, but the man
made fibers I wear don't have an issue with the top of the saddle.

But...and this has only happened twice in a bunch of dismounts, the bottom
edge of the saddle is more or less exposed rubber. When I've swung my leg
up to clear the saddle and dismount I have had it snag a bit on the fabric.
The first time it happened I stopped, sat back down, and tried again. The
second time I just twisted a bit and my leg came free. As I dismount when
stopped I don't think there'll be a problem. If, however, you are one of
those who dismounts while coasting it's something to think about.

I expect this will stop as the rubber gets rubbed a bit more. And,
honestly, this could easily happen on the rougher bit of leather on the
bottom edge of a new Brooks leather saddle - it's not like I haven't gotten
myself caught on the nose once or twice (or thrice...). Still it felt like
cloth catching on rubber.

I also had another concern this morning. Normally I leave my helmet out to
dry out on my lanai but for some reason last night I slung the helmet
straps over the nose of the saddle. Remember, this saddle is 'natural.'
Well this morning I discovered an ugly stap mark underneath the wear the
helmet strap had been. Shoots. I didn't realize my strap was that sweaty. I
figured I'd be careful in the future and thought about how I'd clean this
up. I locked the bike up at work (we have a combo locked cage with racks)
and did my eight hours.

When I came out the mark was gone. Clearly it was just moisture.

I guess this makes sense. As I recall from prior days plastic saddles that
aren't at all absorbent just get slick and icky when they get wet (from
rain or more likely, sweat). Leather, of course, does absorb a bit. Well
apparently so does the fabric on the saddle. What this means in the long
run I don't know, but it dried out and no mark was left.

Given how folks sweat this might, on the natural saddle, lead to moisture
marks one might not wish to explain. :-)

In any case, after a short 10 mile ride I'm happy with the saddle.

Now, as for it's looks. I actually like the thing. No, it's not leather,
but it's not a plastic bit of awfulness either. It looks like a quality
saddle. Do I like the looks more than my leather saddles...not, not really,
but it's not, at least to my mind, ugly. In fact it matches my Acorn bags
on the Hunq fairly well so it doesn't look out of place at all.

That's it for now. I'll have a long ride this weekend (hopefully) and will
report back again on how I feel after at least a couple of dozen miles.

Aloha,

Bob


On Fri, Jun 7, 2013 at 10:51 AM, Michael  wrote:

> Thanks for the pics. I see the contours now.
>>
>
> So, the saddle looks like it is made out of metal, rubber, and plastic,
> an

Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Steve Palincsar]

On Fri, 2013-06-07 at 14:06 -0700, Garth wrote:
> 
> It's rubber and "special" cotton canvas Michael .  I'm pretty darn
> sure they've tested it out so it's not going to stick odd stuff like
> that. This "testing" program is not really a test, it's more of a
> promo first .  Seeing it's going to be released in a matter of days ,
> and people are just getting their "test" saddles  it doesn't leave
> any time for "testing" !! 

It's got us talking about it, so at least that part's working.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Brooks Cambium C-17 First Look

[Robert F. Harrison]

Okay...I managed to actually get out for a about a mile. Sigh.

Naturally enough after I'd spent some time taking off the saddlebag and my
Brooks B-17 Select off my Hunqapillar and putting on the C-17 I discovered
my front tire had flatted. I guess I was lucky to make it home because I
hadn't noticed anything. I'm also using Schwalbe Marathons with Green Guard
and rarely ever have a problem with those tires.

Sure enough I found a bent nail protruding from the tire. I haven't found
the hole in the tube yet (though I know where it HAS to be). In truth I
didn't really look hard, just cleared the tire, slapped in a new tube,
pumped it up and ...

My first ride on the C-17. As it was already getting late and I'd had tire
issues I didn't really have time to do more than cycle around my block and
neighboring blocks a few times.

The saddle is comfortable. It feels to me like a slightly smaller B-17, but
it still fit my bones and I'm a big guy so no problems there. It feels
broken in already and yes, the saddle is slightly springy, more so than a
new Select, probably about the same as a new Standard (which seem much
'looser' to me, but then the leather is thinner I think).

I wondered about the angle of the C-17 and whether I'd need to keep the
nose up as I do with B-17s and yes, I did have to make sure the nose is up
a bit. I haven't quite adjusted it perfectly yet, but it's pretty good. I
did try it with the nose even and it's not good for me at all in the same
way a B-17 isn't at that angle.

I did take some more photos but I'm not sure I followed instructions. :-(

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mgps-bob/sets/72157633979190099/

On the whole it felt fine and while I need to fine tune the position I
think I'll be happy with it. I can't say if I'll keep it on the Hunq for
long, but it'll find a spot. Right now I'm thinking I may put it on my Bike
Friday when I prep that for RAGBRAI 2013.

As for the C-17 being waterproof...yeah, I guess it is. But honestly I live
in Honolulu where we get a fair bit of rain. I've never left my bike out in
the rain without a cover on the saddle, but all of my leather saddles have
gotten wet, damp, moist, splashed, sweated on and over, and in the end,
they are all fine. I'm not sure I see the need for a waterproof Brooks
(other than marketing), but I'm glad to have a chance to try one.

I'll be commuting on it tomorrow and hopefully either Saturday or Sunday I
can put on some miles and really give it a fair test.

So far so good.

Aloha,

Bob




On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 5:43 PM, Michael  wrote:

> Thanks for those pics Bob.
>>
> I think they are trying to make it their waterproof saddle or something?
> Let us know how it rides/feels.
>
> Can you post an eye level profile shot so we can see the contour of the
> seat top from the rear to nose?
> Also an eye level pic of back of saddle to see the shape of the arc of the
> saddle top from left to right?
>
> Just if you have time. Thanks.
>
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rfharri...@gmail.com
statrix.com

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