Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Richard Gaskin

Peter Haworth wrote:

 I'm beginning to think Matthias' idea of putting the environment
 data on the clipboard and asking the user to paste it into the
 email client of his/her choice may be the easiest and safest way
 to do this.

Maybe I'm coming in late to this thread, but if the body of the email is 
less than 1k have you considered just sending it along as a param in the 
url?:


on mouseUp
  put some...@somewhere.com into tAddress
  put Hello! into tSubject
  put This is the bodycrof the email. into tBody
  put mailto:; tAddress  ? \
subject= tSubject  \
   body= tBody into tEmailURL
  launch url tEmailURL
end mouseUp

I use this to have customers send bug reports, and I can grab the OS 
version, my app's version, screenRect, and other useful info along with 
the relevant portion of the executionContexts all within the size limit 
on the URL passed to most email clients.


So far the only really restrictive client I've come across in years is 
GMail, which apparently allows only ~512 chars; everything else our 
users have tested on allows at least 1k, which has been plenty to get 
the info I need from them.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Systems
 Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
 
 ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Warren Samples

On 09/14/2012 08:13 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Peter Haworth wrote:

  I'm beginning to think Matthias' idea of putting the environment
  data on the clipboard and asking the user to paste it into the
  email client of his/her choice may be the easiest and safest way
  to do this.

Maybe I'm coming in late to this thread, but if the body of the email is
less than 1k have you considered just sending it along as a param in the
url?:

on mouseUp
   put some...@somewhere.com into tAddress
   put Hello! into tSubject
   put This is the bodycrof the email. into tBody
   put mailto:; tAddress  ? \
 subject= tSubject  \
body= tBody into tEmailURL
   launch url tEmailURL
end mouseUp

I use this to have customers send bug reports, and I can grab the OS
version, my app's version, screenRect, and other useful info along with
the relevant portion of the executionContexts all within the size limit
on the URL passed to most email clients.

So far the only really restrictive client I've come across in years is
GMail, which apparently allows only ~512 chars; everything else our
users have tested on allows at least 1k, which has been plenty to get
the info I need from them.




This script causes unexpected problems here. It launches KMail on my 
system despite my having Thunderbird properly set as the default system 
email client. What happens if no desktop client is being used? (I 
honestly don't know, I have never been one of those people who use 
web-based mail.) Can one be assured that that behavior will be 
consistent? A second problem on my system, running Linux, is that the 
body is not inserted into the message. This seems to be related to the 
number of parameters the system will pass to the email client. It 
accepts only two, apparently. So, recipient's address + (pick one: cc, 
subject OR body). revMail also behaves exactly this way here.


Warren


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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Richard Gaskin

Warren Samples wrote:


On 09/14/2012 08:13 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Maybe I'm coming in late to this thread, but if the body of the email is
less than 1k have you considered just sending it along as a param in the
url?:

on mouseUp
   put someone at somewhere.com into tAddress
   put Hello! into tSubject
   put This is the bodycrof the email. into tBody
   put mailto:; tAddress  ? \
 subject= tSubject  \
body= tBody into tEmailURL
   launch url tEmailURL
end mouseUp

...

This script causes unexpected problems here. It launches KMail on my
system despite my having Thunderbird properly set as the default system
email client. What happens if no desktop client is being used? (I
honestly don't know, I have never been one of those people who use
web-based mail.) Can one be assured that that behavior will be
consistent? A second problem on my system, running Linux, is that the
body is not inserted into the message. This seems to be related to the
number of parameters the system will pass to the email client. It
accepts only two, apparently. So, recipient's address + (pick one: cc,
subject OR body). revMail also behaves exactly this way here.


Those are all good points, but I suspect there would be even more issues 
trying to get consistent behavior with managing the OS mechanism for 
copy-and-paste into email clients on all those platforms.


Probably the most reliable method would be to write a quick CGI to 
receive the data, and have the dialog stack post it there over HTTP.


That seems to be how this sort of thing is handled most often.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Peter Haworth
Thanks Richard, I will give that a try.  Thanks also to Warren for pointing
out the potential problems.

Probably a CGI script (as mentioned in a later email from Richard) would be
the safest way to go but I'd be starting from ground zero on how to do that.

Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:13 AM, Richard Gaskin
ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote:

 Peter Haworth wrote:

  I'm beginning to think Matthias' idea of putting the environment
  data on the clipboard and asking the user to paste it into the
  email client of his/her choice may be the easiest and safest way
  to do this.

 Maybe I'm coming in late to this thread, but if the body of the email is
 less than 1k have you considered just sending it along as a param in the
 url?:

 on mouseUp
   put some...@somewhere.com into tAddress
   put Hello! into tSubject
   put This is the bodycrof the email. into tBody
   put mailto:; tAddress  ? \
 subject= tSubject  \
body= tBody into tEmailURL
   launch url tEmailURL
 end mouseUp

 I use this to have customers send bug reports, and I can grab the OS
 version, my app's version, screenRect, and other useful info along with the
 relevant portion of the executionContexts all within the size limit on the
 URL passed to most email clients.

 So far the only really restrictive client I've come across in years is
 GMail, which apparently allows only ~512 chars; everything else our users
 have tested on allows at least 1k, which has been plenty to get the info I
 need from them.

 --
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World Systems
  Software Design and Development for the Desktop, Mobile, and the Web
  __**__**
  ambassa...@fourthworld.comhttp://www.FourthWorld.com

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Bob Sneidar
No you are not the only one. But I have decided some time ago that the reason 
for this is that our original estimate of what it takes to accomplish a task is 
largely an illusion, due to our ability to imagine. What it actually took to 
accomplish any given task is what it is when we look back in retrospect. That 
is why experience is such a huge advantage in any line of work (says the aging 
man who's sick of these youngsters around here thinking they can do his job 
just as well). 

Bob


On Sep 14, 2012, at 9:19 AM, Peter Haworth wrote:

 Thanks Richard, I will give that a try.  Thanks also to Warren for pointing
 out the potential problems.
 
 Probably a CGI script (as mentioned in a later email from Richard) would be
 the safest way to go but I'd be starting from ground zero on how to do that.
 
 Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
 figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
 functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!
 
 Pete


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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Richard Gaskin

Peter Haworth wrote:


Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!


That question came up just last night at a programmer meetup.  Everyone 
present agreed that it's just the nature of the task.


Like Bob said, it's not a failure of any given tool or language, just a 
failure of the imagination to conceive of all of the possible issues 
with the many disparate subsystems any project will encounter on its way 
to completion.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Peter Haworth
I wasn't blaming the tools by any means.  I guess eventually, you build up
a library of infrastructure tools (license checking, delivery mechanisms,
bug reporting, etc) just as you do with code libraries so it becomes less
of a headache.

I'll freely admit I'm my own worst enemy in this because I invariably leave
these things to the last minute in favour of concentrating on functionality
and UI.

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Richard Gaskin
ambassa...@fourthworld.comwrote:

 Peter Haworth wrote:

  Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
 figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
 functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!


 That question came up just last night at a programmer meetup.  Everyone
 present agreed that it's just the nature of the task.

 Like Bob said, it's not a failure of any given tool or language, just a
 failure of the imagination to conceive of all of the possible issues with
 the many disparate subsystems any project will encounter on its way to
 completion.


 --
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
  Follow me on Twitter:  
 http://twitter.com/**FourthWorldSyshttp://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Peter M. Brigham

On Sep 14, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

 I'll freely admit I'm my own worst enemy in this because I invariably leave
 these things to the last minute in favour of concentrating on functionality
 and UI.

The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the 
other 90% of the time.

-- Peter

Peter M. Brigham
pmb...@gmail.com
http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig


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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Bob Sneidar
I like that!

On Sep 14, 2012, at 10:28 AM, Peter M. Brigham wrote:

 
 On Sep 14, 2012, at 12:53 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
 
 I'll freely admit I'm my own worst enemy in this because I invariably leave
 these things to the last minute in favour of concentrating on functionality
 and UI.
 
 The first 90% of the task takes 90% of the time, and the last 10% takes the 
 other 90% of the time.
 
 -- Peter
 
 Peter M. Brigham
 pmb...@gmail.com
 http://home.comcast.net/~pmbrig
 
 
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Mark Wieder
Peter Haworth pete@... writes:

 Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
 figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
 functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!

...and that's what frameworks and object factories are for.

-- 
 Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net



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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Richard Gaskin

Mark Wieder wrote:

Peter Haworth pete at ... writes:


Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!


...and that's what frameworks and object factories are for.


And what do you do when you stumble across a bug in the framework? ;)

How long will it take to even isolate the bug well enough to identify 
that it's in the framework?


Code is complex stuff...

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 LiveCode training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for LiveCode developers: http://www.LiveCodeJournal.com
 Follow me on Twitter:  http://twitter.com/FourthWorldSys

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-14 Thread Peter Haworth
Yes, but I'm thinking more of things like:

- setting up a web site
- making  non-zip files downloadable
- enabling some sort of demo/licensing scheme that's not subject to hacking
within 5 minutes
- setting up a method of reporting bugs
- code signing Mac apps
- making a .dmg file for Macs
- making a .pkg file for Macs
- making a .msi file for Windows
- making a pdf user manual that has navigation bookmarks in it

I've figured out asll those things now (just about!) but if I'd love to
know if there's a framework that would have helped me with them all!

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:34 AM, Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.netwrote:

 Peter Haworth pete@... writes:

  Am I the only one that feels like I spend an inordinate amount of time
  figuring out solutions to problems that have nothing to do with the basic
  functionality of whatever product I'm working on!?!?!

 ...and that's what frameworks and object factories are for.

 --
  Mark Wieder
  mwie...@ahsoftware.net



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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Matthias Rebbe
Peter,

Sarah Reichelt´s smtp library can help.

http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks


Regards,


--
Matthias Rebbe
matthias (at) rebbe.tk
Tel: +49.5741.31
--
Life is too short for boring code







Am 13.09.2012 um 21:44 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:

 I notice that revMail does not have a way to attach a file to the email it
 creates.  Is there perhaps a plugin or library that will provide that
 functionality?
 Pete
 lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Peter Haworth
Thanks Matthias, I'll take a look.
Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe 
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de wrote:

 Peter,

 Sarah Reichelt´s smtp library can help.

 http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks


 Regards,


 --
 Matthias Rebbe
 matthias (at) rebbe.tk
 Tel: +49.5741.31
 --
 Life is too short for boring code







 Am 13.09.2012 um 21:44 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:

  I notice that revMail does not have a way to attach a file to the email
 it
  creates.  Is there perhaps a plugin or library that will provide that
  functionality?
  Pete
  lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Peter Haworth
Looks like that won't help.

The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the name
of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's machine
and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
unfortunately.

Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could just
rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
provided by LC for those platforms :-)

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe 
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de wrote:

 Peter,

 Sarah Reichelt´s smtp library can help.

 http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks


 Regards,


 --
 Matthias Rebbe
 matthias (at) rebbe.tk
 Tel: +49.5741.31
 --
 Life is too short for boring code







 Am 13.09.2012 um 21:44 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:

  I notice that revMail does not have a way to attach a file to the email
 it
  creates.  Is there perhaps a plugin or library that will provide that
  functionality?
  Pete
  lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Matthias Rebbe
Peter,

you could try to use the smtp server which is responsible for your 
emailaddress. Your server normally will accept emails for your emailaddress.
I write normally, because there are cases where this will not work. For example 
if your smtp server uses reverse dns to check the sender.

Another option would be to let your app post that data to a php or 
livecodeserver script, which then does the sending.

But wouldn´t it be better to let the user send the email manually? You could 
let your app  put the desired data into the clipboard and let revmail open the 
email editor. You could then instruct the user
to paste the content of the clipboard into the editor window.

i, for one would love to know when a software is sending data or is phoning 
home.


Regards,

Matthias


--
Matthias Rebbe
matthias (at) rebbe.tk
Tel: +49.5741.31
--
Life is too short for boring code







Am 13.09.2012 um 23:21 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:

 Looks like that won't help.
 
 The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
 support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
 information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the name
 of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's machine
 and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
 unfortunately.
 
 Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
 email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could just
 rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
 provided by LC for those platforms :-)
 
 Pete
 lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
 
 
 
 On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe 
 matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de wrote:
 
 Peter,
 
 Sarah Reichelt´s smtp library can help.
 
 http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks
 
 
 Regards,
 
 
 --
 Matthias Rebbe
 matthias (at) rebbe.tk
 Tel: +49.5741.31
 --
 Life is too short for boring code
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Am 13.09.2012 um 21:44 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:
 
 I notice that revMail does not have a way to attach a file to the email
 it
 creates.  Is there perhaps a plugin or library that will provide that
 functionality?
 Pete
 lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Matthias Rebbe







Am 14.09.2012 um 00:14 schrieb Matthias Rebbe 
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de:

 Your server normally will accept emails for your emailaddress.

Of course your server accept email to your address. It was meant to be

Your server normally will accept emails to your address without authentication.

Regards,

MAtthias
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Warren Samples

On 09/13/2012 04:21 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the name
of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's machine
and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
unfortunately.

Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could just
rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
provided by LC for those platforms:-)

Pete
lcSQL Softwarehttp://www.lcsql.com



You can expect unexpected problems using either SMTP or using revMail. 
Port blocking may require the use of nonstandard ports for SMTP and not 
everyone will have a desktop email client set up.


You could use an SMTP relay service and provide the address and 
credentials yourself. Some SMTP relay services allow you to use 
non-standard ports. Some of them are quite inexpensive for low volume 
use, so that could help cover some scenarios if you're really determined 
to use SMTP.


The server side script solution is far less problematic. You could also 
look into a script that stores the info in a database and you collect it 
manually.



Good Luck,

Warren

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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Bob Sneidar
Can you use On-Rev for mail sending? 

On Sep 13, 2012, at 3:38 PM, Warren Samples wrote:

 On 09/13/2012 04:21 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:
 The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
 support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
 information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the name
 of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's machine
 and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
 unfortunately.
 
 Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
 email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could just
 rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
 provided by LC for those platforms:-)
 
 Pete
 lcSQL Softwarehttp://www.lcsql.com
 
 
 You can expect unexpected problems using either SMTP or using revMail. Port 
 blocking may require the use of nonstandard ports for SMTP and not everyone 
 will have a desktop email client set up.
 
 You could use an SMTP relay service and provide the address and credentials 
 yourself. Some SMTP relay services allow you to use non-standard ports. Some 
 of them are quite inexpensive for low volume use, so that could help cover 
 some scenarios if you're really determined to use SMTP.
 
 The server side script solution is far less problematic. You could also look 
 into a script that stores the info in a database and you collect it manually.
 
 
 Good Luck,
 
 Warren
 
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Peter Haworth
All good ideas.

Also, I'm not sending emails invisibly.  The option to email support
gathers all the environment info and supplies it to revMail as the message
with a few blank lines at the top for the user to give details of the
problem.

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:14 PM, Matthias Rebbe 
matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de wrote:

 Peter,

 you could try to use the smtp server which is responsible for your
 emailaddress. Your server normally will accept emails for your emailaddress.
 I write normally, because there are cases where this will not work. For
 example if your smtp server uses reverse dns to check the sender.

 Another option would be to let your app post that data to a php or
 livecodeserver script, which then does the sending.

 But wouldn´t it be better to let the user send the email manually? You
 could let your app  put the desired data into the clipboard and let revmail
 open the email editor. You could then instruct the user
 to paste the content of the clipboard into the editor window.

 i, for one would love to know when a software is sending data or is
 phoning home.


 Regards,

 Matthias


 --
 Matthias Rebbe
 matthias (at) rebbe.tk
 Tel: +49.5741.31
 --
 Life is too short for boring code







 Am 13.09.2012 um 23:21 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:

  Looks like that won't help.
 
  The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
  support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
  information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the
 name
  of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's
 machine
  and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
  unfortunately.
 
  Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
  email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could
 just
  rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
  provided by LC for those platforms :-)
 
  Pete
  lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
 
 
 
  On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Matthias Rebbe 
  matthias_livecode_150...@m-r-d.de wrote:
 
  Peter,
 
  Sarah Reichelt´s smtp library can help.
 
  http://www.troz.net/rev/index.irev?category=Library#stacks
 
 
  Regards,
 
 
  --
  Matthias Rebbe
  matthias (at) rebbe.tk
  Tel: +49.5741.31
  --
  Life is too short for boring code
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  Am 13.09.2012 um 21:44 schrieb Peter Haworth p...@lcsql.com:
 
  I notice that revMail does not have a way to attach a file to the email
  it
  creates.  Is there perhaps a plugin or library that will provide that
  functionality?
  Pete
  lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com
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Re: Sending an email with a file attachment

2012-09-13 Thread Peter Haworth
Thanks Warren.

I'm beginning to think Matthias' idea of putting the environment data on
the clipboard and asking the user to paste it into the email client of
his/her choice may be the easiest and safest way to do this.

Pete
lcSQL Software http://www.lcsql.com



On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Warren Samples war...@warrensweb.uswrote:

 On 09/13/2012 04:21 PM, Peter Haworth wrote:

 The purpose for this is for a user of my software to send an email to
 support and to automatically attach a file to the email that contains
 information about the user's environment.  Sarah's stack requires the name
 of the SMTP server and since that will be different on each user's machine
 and I don't know in advance what it is, her stack won't help me
 unfortunately.

 Any other suggestions?  I can embed the information in the body of the
 email instead of in an attachment so not hugely important. Or I could just
 rewrite my app to run on iPhone/Android, then I could use the commands
 provided by LC for those platforms:-)

 Pete
 lcSQL Softwarehttp://www.lcsql.com



 You can expect unexpected problems using either SMTP or using revMail.
 Port blocking may require the use of nonstandard ports for SMTP and not
 everyone will have a desktop email client set up.

 You could use an SMTP relay service and provide the address and
 credentials yourself. Some SMTP relay services allow you to use
 non-standard ports. Some of them are quite inexpensive for low volume use,
 so that could help cover some scenarios if you're really determined to use
 SMTP.

 The server side script solution is far less problematic. You could also
 look into a script that stores the info in a database and you collect it
 manually.


 Good Luck,

 Warren


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