Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
Most ethernet ports are keyed by a 25MHz crystal. What you and others describe is harmonics interference from this crystal. Which is common unfortunately especially on poe based equipment. Sometimes in bad cases you have to as well put ferruls on the power cable to the switch/poe injector as well as multiple ferruls at each end of every cat5 cable used. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: Gary Garrett Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:09:06 To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? I went through this issue with a ham repeater at a mountain top tower. The repeater would key up and never let go as it saw some signal it thought was a user. I was in a metal cargo container and the repeater was in a frame building 20 feet away. I could turn off the ethernet switch and the interference would go away. I could leave the switch powered up and remove all the cat 5 cables to it and the interference would go away. It appears the ethernet switch was mixing several RF sources and emitting a sum or difference of the two (or more). I tried Ferrite rings on all cat 5 cables, shielded cable etc. Nothing really worked that well. Finally I moved 100' away to a different building on a different tower and no one is complaining now. Spacial separation seems to have fixed it. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > than others. > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > apparent in the VHF band. > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
I went through this issue with a ham repeater at a mountain top tower. The repeater would key up and never let go as it saw some signal it thought was a user. I was in a metal cargo container and the repeater was in a frame building 20 feet away. I could turn off the ethernet switch and the interference would go away. I could leave the switch powered up and remove all the cat 5 cables to it and the interference would go away. It appears the ethernet switch was mixing several RF sources and emitting a sum or difference of the two (or more). I tried Ferrite rings on all cat 5 cables, shielded cable etc. Nothing really worked that well. Finally I moved 100' away to a different building on a different tower and no one is complaining now. Spacial separation seems to have fixed it. Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > than others. > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > apparent in the VHF band. > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
This happens right in my house. Since installing lots of extra ethernet wiring, my ability to scan in the 2m and 150mhz areas has definitely been hindered by all the off noisy channels. It happened because I haven't bothered to use shielded cat5 at home. At tower sites, we use shielded only. We have many situations where we are colocated with VHF and HAM gear and have no problems because we use shielded cables and metal equipment enclosures. We have one site with probably 25 ethernet devices adjacent to a VHF AIS receiver that is picking things up distant ships at sensitivities of -115dbm or so. On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:56:12PM -0400, Kurt Fankhauser wrote: > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > than others. > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > apparent in the VHF band. > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com -- /* Jason Philbrook | Midcoast Internet Solutions - Wireless and DSL KB1IOJ| Broadband Internet Access, Dialup, and Hosting http://f64.nu/ | for Midcoast Mainehttp://www.midcoast.com/ */ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
Separate the runs from each other by at least 12 inchs and if they cross make it at a 90 degree angle. That is standard NSC spec for isolating secure lines from crosstalk, but works for any kind of spurious radiation. Shielded cable will work as well but this will be a quick fix. Phil On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Marlon K. Schafer wrote: > I've seen this happen too. It's funny, if we plug the computer right into > the radio it goes away. Use a router and it's back. > > We're just going to replace the cat 5 with shielded cable and see what > happens. > marlon > > - Original Message - > From: > To: "WISPA General List" > Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:24 PM > Subject: Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? > > > > Yes that would be ethernet. Gets some cable ferrules and put on the > > ethernet right next to the radio another right at the exit from the poe > > and another right as cat5 cable goes into poe and finally one right where > > the cat5 cable goes into switch and computer. > > > > Might also consider using heavy outdoor rated shielded cat5 cabling > > between poe and unit. > > > > /Eje > > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > > > -----Original Message- > > From: "Kurt Fankhauser" > > > > Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:56:12 > > To: 'WISPA General List' > > Subject: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? > > > > > > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the > > 150mhz > > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of > > noise > > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on > > grain > > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html > > that > > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > > than others. > > > > > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > > apparent in the VHF band. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > > WAVELINC > > P.O. Box 126 > > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > > 419-562-6405 > > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
I've seen this happen too. It's funny, if we plug the computer right into the radio it goes away. Use a router and it's back. We're just going to replace the cat 5 with shielded cable and see what happens. marlon - Original Message - From: To: "WISPA General List" Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? > Yes that would be ethernet. Gets some cable ferrules and put on the > ethernet right next to the radio another right at the exit from the poe > and another right as cat5 cable goes into poe and finally one right where > the cat5 cable goes into switch and computer. > > Might also consider using heavy outdoor rated shielded cat5 cabling > between poe and unit. > > /Eje > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > -Original Message- > From: "Kurt Fankhauser" > > Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:56:12 > To: 'WISPA General List' > Subject: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? > > > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the > 150mhz > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of > noise > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on > grain > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html > that > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > than others. > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > apparent in the VHF band. > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
We ran into this once. Solution: upgrade to shielded Ethernet cable with a drain wire. Then attach the drain wire to ground. > -Original Message- > From: Kurt Fankhauser > To: 'WISPA General List' > Date: 03/29/09 23:56 > Subject: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? > > Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio > (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz > band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them > interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise > on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain > leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've > read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that > apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions > than others. > > > > Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be > apparent in the VHF band. > > > > > > > > Kurt Fankhauser > WAVELINC > P.O. Box 126 > Bucyrus, OH 44820 > 419-562-6405 > www.wavelinc.com > > > > > > > > > > > WISPA Wants You! Join today! > http://signup.wispa.org/ > > > WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > > Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
Yes that would be ethernet. Gets some cable ferrules and put on the ethernet right next to the radio another right at the exit from the poe and another right as cat5 cable goes into poe and finally one right where the cat5 cable goes into switch and computer. Might also consider using heavy outdoor rated shielded cat5 cabling between poe and unit. /Eje Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -Original Message- From: "Kurt Fankhauser" Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 23:56:12 To: 'WISPA General List' Subject: [WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO? Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions than others. Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be apparent in the VHF band. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] harmful RFI from ethernet to HAM RADIO?
Has anyone else here ever been co-located on a tower with a HAM radio (144-148mhz) VHF repeater or perhaps even a commercial system in the 150mhz band and gotten complaints that your Ethernet cable is causing them interference on their repeater? We are trying to locate the source of noise on an amateur radio repeater system locally and last time I went up on grain leg there was a whole lot of Ethernet cabling strung everywhere and I've read some links such as these. http://www.hamuniverse.com/linksys.html that apparently some brands of equipment give out much more spurious emissions than others. Also how did you work with the radio people to solve it? Seems to only be apparent in the VHF band. Kurt Fankhauser WAVELINC P.O. Box 126 Bucyrus, OH 44820 419-562-6405 www.wavelinc.com WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
