Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards
Sounds good, you've sold it to me. It's update time! Quoting Mark Harwood WebMail@, [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:50 , Dan Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent: You're preaching to the converted here, mate :) On this list, IE is only ever mentioned in vain. I've got Firefox 0.9.2...is it worth getting v1.0PR? Hey Dan :D Id get it just for the RSS Bookmark Feed Lister alone! I love the little thing! and im not into RSS reader's at all but to have my Fav sie's news posts within my Bookmarks instead of just a link to the site is great! Mark Harwood Phunky.co.uk / Xhtmlandcss.co.uk / Zinkmedia.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Dan Webb Web Developer and Internet Consultant www.danwebb.net 07957 234544 39 Roseberry Gardens, London, N8 8SH ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards
Firefox is excellent. I still prefer my Opera though -- Chris Hughes http://www.epicure.demon.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] The way forward for Web Standards
Dan Webb wrote: I've got Firefox 0.9.2...is it worth getting v1.0PR? If you're reliant on specific extensions with your current FF, just double check that they're compatible with 1.0PR before making the switch. Beyond that, it looks like a reasonably stable release (although it does feel just a tad more sluggish than 0.9.3 on my old PIII 800) On a related topic, Thunderbird 0.8 is perfect and natively incorporates a lot of features that 0.7 needed extensions for...well worth an upgrade as well. Patrick _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Strange style behaviour in IE
I have a page where some styles don't display initially in IE5.5. It works in Mozilla, so as usual it's IE that's the culprit. The page is here == http://www.facs.gov.au/_newsite3/pub.htm The first paragraph is supposed to have a background colour (eg. a 'breakout' box), and the H2 heading should have a bottom border and background colour. What happens is that once the page has loaded, if you scroll down and then scroll up again, the styles are then displayed. Hit refresh, and they disappear again. Also, I notice that hitting the ALT key makes those styles disappear. The funny thing is that this doesn't affect all styles on the page - only those two. I've searched for some ideas on this - I know it is a IE bug but actually knowing how to describe it for a search engine is a bit difficult. Any ideas on how to stop this from happening? I though I had finished all this. Thanks. The advice from many in this forum to code for standards-based browsers like Mozilla and then fix up for IE is good advice... Anura ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Strange style behaviour in IE
Anura wrote: What happens is that once the page has loaded, if you scroll down and then scroll up again, the styles are then displayed. Hit refresh, and they disappear again. Also, I notice that hitting the ALT key makes those styles disappear. I haven't checked, but it sounds a lot like the Peekaboo bug [1]. Even if it isn't, that site might be able to help Cheers, Lachlan [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] my dl lists are playing nicely with IE
After a very quick look, change #bodynav li a to display: inline; instead
of block fixes it for me. (IE6 XPsp2)
David
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ted Drake
Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 9:41 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [WSG] my dl lists are playing nicely with IE
Hi Everyone
I was just about to send you a question concerning some dl's and I fixed
them myself. Yep, the whole process of writing the e-mail made me realize I
had an extra position:relative sneaking around.
So, here's another problem area. And this one should be a piece of cake,
but it's driving me nuts.
I'm using the basic horizontal list buttons to create a tertiary navigation.
They are based on Zeldman's dwws boxes but are simple enough to understand.
In firefox, they are perfect, in IE, they are taking up the width of the
container and becoming big ol' vertical boxes instead of tidy horizontal
ones.
Here's an example: http://v4.csatravelprotection.com/csa/webdirect.do
Here's the code:
ul id='bodynav'
li id=''a href=/csa/webdirect.do class=here id=
title=Guarantee Your Vacation with our WebDirect comprehensive travel
insurance productFeatures/a/li
li id=''a href=/csa/coveragesall.do class= id= title=Read a
table of travel insurance coverages and
benefitsCoverages/Benefits/a/li
li id=''a href=/csa/certpolicy.do class= id= title=Download
and read your Travel Insurance Policy or
CertificateCertificate/Policy/a/li
li id=''a href=/csa/defineterm.do class= id= title=Read the
definition of terms and outline of coveragesDefinitions/a/li
li id=''a href=/csa/afaqproduct.do class= id= title=Frequently
Asked Travel Insurance QuestionsFAQ/a/li /ul The list is being
generated dynamically and the extra id's were there for flexibility. We can
remove them from the template if that is a problem.
Here are the appropriate CSS styles
/* General List Styles */
#content { position:relative;top:0px;clear:both;}
#maincontent { float: right;width: 490px;margin: 0; padding: 0 20px 0 0;
clear: right;} li {list-style:circle;}
ul#bodynav{border: 0;margin: 3px 0 0;padding: 0;list-style-type:
none;/**/float: right;border-right: 1px solid #666;} #bodynav li{display:
block;float: left;text-align: center; width: auto; padding: 0;margin: 0;}
#bodynav li a{background: #e4edf1; height: 18px; width: auto;padding: 0
5px;
margin: 0;color: #666;text-decoration: none;display:
block;text-align: center;
font-size:70%;font-weight:bold;border-top: 1px solid
#666;border-left: 1px solid #666;
border-bottom: 1px solid #666;border-right: none;} #bodynav
li a:hover{background: #9CBCC9; color:#fff;} #bodynav a:active{background:
#9CBCC9;color: #fff;} #bodynav li a.here {background: #74A2B4;border: 1px
solid #666;color: #fff;}
I don't see anything that is making the list boxes take up all of the
horizontal space and then stack vertically on ie and not on firefox. Does
anyone have an idea?
Once again, I realize the site is not valid xhtml yet, I'm working on fixing
those outstanding issues as well.
Thanks
Ted
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
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Re: [WSG] Miles to go before I sleep....
Ted, This sort of problem is often fixed by zeroing the margins on the text... in this case, perhaps, on the ul. -Hugh Todd Here's my first question. In firefox win it looks fine. In IE, I have about 10-15px margin between the topnav and the content div. I've played with the margin on the topmenu and that does have an impact. I've made the gap smaller by defining the margin on topmenu, but it still exists on IE and not in firefox. I would certainly appreciate any advice. I'm signing up with browsercam this morning to see what the rest of the non-firefox viewers are seeing and to begin the real fun of tweaking. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Miles to go before I sleep....
Ted Drake wrote:
Here's my first question. In firefox win it looks fine. In IE, I have about 10-15px margin between the topnav and the content div. I've played with the margin on the topmenu and that does have an impact. I've made the gap smaller by defining the margin on topmenu, but it still exists on IE and not in firefox.
Given the complexity of the code, I couldn't afford time for a seriously
detailed look, but it is due to your negative positioning, I think.
Here's a quick fix (hack)
* html #topmenu {
margin: 2px 0 1px;
top: 0;
}
Of course, then you'll have to rearrange your margins for the following
content similarly, so you may not choose to use it. It should be a good
start for working out the source of the problem, though
Sorry I couldn't help more
Cheers,
Lachlan
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[WSG] RSVP
i'll be there. see you this evening. Gav ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Button Woe
Hi,
In the following code, I've been unsuccessful aligning the submit
button flush with the top of the UA. Would some one correct the boggle.
Respectfully,
Chris
http://ckimedia.com
style type=text/css media=screen
body{
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
background-color: #FFF;
color: #333;
font: 11px/1em Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
}
#container{
width: 800px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
border: 1px solid black;
}
#header{
background: url(i/bbc_logo_blk.gif) left top no-repeat;
height: 38px;
/*position: relative;
height: 36px; */
display: block !important;
display: none;
}
ul#specialInt {
list-style-type: none;
margin: 0 0 0 30em;
padding: 0;
}
ul#specialInt li {
border-right: 1px solid black;
padding: 0 1em 0 1em;
display: inline;
margin: 0;
float: left;
}
ul#specialInt li a:link, a:active{
text-decoration: none;
color: #C00;
}
ul#specialInt li a:hover, a:active {
text-decoration: underline;
color: #C00;
}
#searchForm{
margin-left: 2em;
padding: 0;
display: inline;
/* float: right;
display: inline;
border-left: 4px solid #FFF; */
}
#searchForm #submit{
padding: 0; !important; /* FOR COMPETENT BROWSERS */
padding: 0; /* IE PC */
margin: 0; !important; /* FOR COMPETENT BROWSERS */
margin-top: 0; /* IE PC */
float: right;
clear: both;
}
/style
/head
body
div id=container
div id=header
ul id=specialInt
lia href=#Contest/a/li
lia href=#Shows A-Z/a/li
/ul
form id=searchForm
label for=Search class=search
search
input id=search type=text name=search class=banner size=20
maxlength=30 /
input id=submit type=submit value=GO width=33 height=17
class=banner /
/form
/div
/div
/body
/html
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Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge
To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004
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Re: [WSG] Strange style behaviour in IE
I had seen the Peerkaboo bug but discounted it because (1) I'm using IE5 but the article mentions IE6. I can't get the claimed bug to work, and (2) it doesn't really match my situation. However, in tinkering with different forms of layout (absolute widths for columns, relative widths for columns, floats for columns) the problem has gone away. I would give myself a pat on the back except for the fact I have no idea what went wrong in the first place or what I did to fix it! Anura On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:09:53 +1000, Lachlan Hardy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anura wrote: What happens is that once the page has loaded, if you scroll down and then scroll up again, the styles are then displayed. Hit refresh, and they disappear again. Also, I notice that hitting the ALT key makes those styles disappear. I haven't checked, but it sounds a lot like the Peekaboo bug [1]. Even if it isn't, that site might be able to help Cheers, Lachlan [1] http://www.positioniseverything.net/explorer/peekaboo.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] A workaround for Unicode problems (at last) [long]
As some of you may know, I've been scouring the Net for some way to display Unicode text accurately in webpages. The only application I had been able to find, which would allow me to edit Unicode text on the server, was SubEthaEdit. It's a wonderful app., but a few html tools usually save me a fair bit of time. I lobbied html developers and cursed a lot (non-productive but therapeutic at times). Strangely enough, even apps that said they supported Unicode, would not display my Vietnamese characters properly. I was using the Vietnamese keyboard from the default OSX install Unicode bundle. However, now I have found the answer to my hassles: single-code-point characters. This may well fix problems for users of other languages. Apparently, the default Vietnamese Unicode keyboard that is installed with OSX, uses two Unicode code points to describe a character: one for the vowel, another for the accent. Very few apps. can tolerate this, and for html, only SubEthaEdit could edit it accurately, while only Safari would display it properly. A search under Unicode and Vietnamese brought up a package in Apple's OSX Downloads. It contained additional keyboards. The documentation stated: All [these] keyboard layouts emit Vietnamese text in Unicode Normalization Form C (NFC), where the entire vowel including the intonation mark is represented by a single code point. In comparison, the original Mac OS X Vietnamese keyboard layout emits Unicode text where vowels with an intonation mark are represented by a code point for the vowel itself (a, , , e, , i, o, , , u, , y) followed by a second code point representing the intonation mark as combining diacritic. UnicodeChecker (http://www.earthlingsoft.net/), makes a service Convert to Unicode Normalization Form C available to TextEdit and other applications. VietPad (http://vietpad.sourceforge.net/) can do this, too. What happens when I use one of these single-code-point Unicode keyboards? Everything displays perfectly in Unicode-aware applications, _and_ in webpages. I am really delighted, because this has been a long, hard struggle for me, which I resent just a little, because of the claims of OSX and many apps to support Unicode fully. It does seem that full Unicode support is a fair way off yet. Here is my current list. Applications which support Unicode fully, including on webpages: Safari, SubEthaEdit, StyleMaster (CSS) Applications which display Unicode perfectly in their documents: Apple: Finder, Mail, iCal, AddressBook, TextEdit, Stairways group: Interarchy (ftp), Keyboard Maestro (macros), URL Manager Pro (sic), Web Confidential (sensitive data) Other developers: iData (database), LaunchBar (finder utility), JNotes (note app.), NetNewsWire (RSS), UniLingua (vocab tester), Daktari (html), MoosePad (small db), VietPad Applications which only display single-code-point Unicode (UNFC) properly: BBEdit v8, Linguist (translation), Psi (Jabber), OmniWeb v5, Mozilla, Netscape and probably many others Apple apps which do not yet support Unicode at all: AppleWorks! I will try to find time to upload a page which covers this more fully, since what info there is online is out of date, and certainly doesn't include UNFC. I would like to be able to include a fuller table of applications' support of Unicode, and information on how it affects other languages, so please email me if you have info on, for example, how iTunes handles Unicode, or how Arabic displays using the default OSX keyboard. For now, it's good news: we have a work-around for incomplete Unicode support. (Now, I just have to adjust to a keyboard layout where some things are reversed... but it's worth it!) Sorry about such a long post. I tried reducing it, but it didn't cover the subject adequately. from Clytie, whose Google needs retreading after all the searching she's done on this topic This specific message posted to the following lists concerned: OmniWeb-l, South Australian Apple Users' Group, Web Standards Group, CSS-d, Web Authoring List (BareBones), SubEthaEdit Users, Interarchy Users and NetNewsWire Users. Clytie Siddall -- thnh ph Renmark, tai min Sng cua c Nam ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] absolute positioning and screen magnifiers
Just wondering if anyone knows much about the impact of absolute positioning on people who are using screen magnifiers. see you tonight... Lisa ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mac (Safari) rendering of colours
Could it be because of the colour depth on the mac? Jpeg makes an approximation of the colours used (like in the original file) for better optimisation. So on the PC its using a different colour depth and the jpeg appears okay but on the mac it has a more limited depth so it doesnt? Pencil tool and cross hatch like a mofo =) Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cameron Adams Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 2:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Mac (Safari) rendering of colours Hi, I was wondering whether anyone knew why on my site: http://www.themaninblue.com/ a Mac using a display of millions of colours (in Safari) renders the images in the main grey panel differently, thus creating a visible line on either side of the content. Whereas on PC it is seamless. I'm guessing it arises because I use a JPEG for the main middle part, and GIFs for the two sides (or vice versa) and the computer is rendering the colours differently? But on a PC machine it's all fine and no discrepancies can be seen. This also happens on another site I'm developing, where the CSS background-color differs from the JPEG background image on Mac, but looks fine on PC. If anyone knows a solution it would be much appreciated. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Mac (Safari) rendering of colours
From the way I read it they're both at 32 bit. My guess would be that safari is using ColorSync to match the jpg to what it would like in print, which would be fine if you weren't trying to match it the gif next-door. You might have to use one format or the other (or switch both to png, which is lossless but can still display 32 bit images). Quoting Hill, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Could it be because of the colour depth on the mac? Jpeg makes an approximation of the colours used (like in the original file) for better optimisation. So on the PC its using a different colour depth and the jpeg appears okay but on the mac it has a more limited depth so it doesnt? Pencil tool and cross hatch like a mofo =) Tim Hill Computer Associates Graphic Artist tel: +612 9937 0792 fax: +612 9937 0546 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cameron Adams Sent: Thursday, 16 September 2004 2:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [WSG] Mac (Safari) rendering of colours Hi, I was wondering whether anyone knew why on my site: http://www.themaninblue.com/ a Mac using a display of millions of colours (in Safari) renders the images in the main grey panel differently, thus creating a visible line on either side of the content. Whereas on PC it is seamless. I'm guessing it arises because I use a JPEG for the main middle part, and GIFs for the two sides (or vice versa) and the computer is rendering the colours differently? But on a PC machine it's all fine and no discrepancies can be seen. This also happens on another site I'm developing, where the CSS background-color differs from the JPEG background image on Mac, but looks fine on PC. If anyone knows a solution it would be much appreciated. -- Cameron Adams W: www.themaninblue.com ___ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
