'chindogu' seems almost appropriate but maybe not exact
http://www.designboom.com/history/useless.html
http://www.pitt.edu/~ctnst3/chindogu.html
--Anton
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Dave Howe wrote:
> > "Nonsense fence" maybe less metaphoric but more clear.
> I disagree - "one picket fence" gives a clear impression of a protective
> device
> that is hardened at but one point - leaving the rest insecure. "nonsense
> fence"
> doesn't give any real image.
Perhaps, but sometime
John Denker wrote:
> That's an interesting topic for discussion, but I don't think
> it answers Perry's original question, because there are plenty
> of situations where the semblence of protection is actually a
> cost-effective form of security. It's an example of statistical
> deterrence.
i've
arkles in plastic
>>> painted on the missile rather than paper?
>>
>> Yes. The intent was that forging the fingerprint on a warhead should cost as
>> much or more than the warhead itself.
>
>Talking of solving the wrong problem, that's a pretty bad metric - for
Perry E. Metzger writes:
> Anyone have a good phrase in mind that has the right sort of flavor
> for describing this sort of thing?
Well, I've always said that crypto without a threat model is like
"cookies without the milk".
--
--My blog is at blog.russnelson.com | In a democracy
On Tue, Aug 09, 2005 at 01:04:10AM +1200, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> That sounds a bit like "unicorn insurance"
> [..]
> However, this is slightly different from what Perry was suggesting.
> There seem to be at least four subclasses of problem here:
>
> 1. "???" : A solution based on a misunderstandin
they know they
>>> have a particular piece of paper on hand.
>>
>> Didn't the people who did US/USSR nuclear arms verification do something
>> very similar, except the characterised surface was sparkles in plastic
>> painted on the missile rather than paper
"Single picket fence" -- doesn't work without a lot of explaining.
The one I usually have usually heard is the obvious and intuitive
"locking the door when the window is open".
(ie fixating on quality of dead-bolt, etc on the front door when the
window beside it is _open_!)
Adam
On Sat, Aug 06,
Adam Shostack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Let me propose another answer to Perry's question:
> "Wearing a millstone around your neck to ward off vampires."
>
>This expresses both ends of a lose/lose proposition:
> -- a burdensome solution
> -- to a fantastically unimportant problem.
That s
Peter Fairbrother <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>> Frequently, scientists who know nothing about security come up with
>> ingenious ways to solve non-existent problems. Take this, for example:
>>
>> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=00049DB6-ED96-12E7-AD
Adam Shostack wrote:
Here's a thought:
"Putting up a beware of dog sign, instead of getting a dog."
That's an interesting topic for discussion, but I don't think
it answers Perry's original question, because there are plenty
of situations where the semblence of protection is actually a
cost-ef
Perry E. Metzger wrote:
>
> Frequently, scientists who know nothing about security come up with
> ingenious ways to solve non-existent problems. Take this, for example:
>
> http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=00049DB6-ED96-12E7-AD9
> 683414B7F
>
> Basically, some clever
Here's a thought:
"Putting up a beware of dog sign, instead of getting a dog."
On Sun, Aug 07, 2005 at 09:10:51PM +0100, Dave Howe wrote:
| Ilya Levin wrote:
| >John Denker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| >
| >>So, unless/until somebody comes up with a better metaphor,
| >>I'd vote for "one-picket
Ilya Levin wrote:
John Denker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So, unless/until somebody comes up with a better metaphor,
I'd vote for "one-picket fence".
"Nonsense fence" maybe less metaphoric but more clear.
I disagree - "one picket fence" gives a clear impression of a protective device
that is
John Denker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So, unless/until somebody comes up with a better metaphor,
> I'd vote for "one-picket fence".
"Nonsense fence" maybe less metaphoric but more clear.
-- -
Ilya O Levin
http://www.literatecode.com
On Sat, 6 Aug 2005, Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> We already have the term "snake oil" for a very different type of bad
> security idea, and the term has proven valuable for quashing such
> things. We need a term for this sort of thing -- the steel tamper
> resistant lock added to the tissue paper do
When I came to Washington DC last november, my portrait and
fingerprints were taken for the first time. I was the last one in the
queue and the immigration officer was a nice guy, so I asked him how
this should protect against terrorists. As far as I read in the
newspapers, the 911 attackers just c
Reminds me of the White Knight from Alice in Wonderland, who doesn't
understand his threat model, and doesn't know how to effectively use
his tools:
`I see you're admiring my little box,' the Knight said in a friendly
tone. `It's my own invention -- to keep clothes and sandwiches in. You
see I ca
Perry E. Metzger wrote:
> A variant on the moviefone.com model might work better for these folks
> -- have the person buy the tickets with a credit card, and use a
> machine to check that they are in physical possession of said card
> when they enter the theater. Most people will not loan their car
"Steven M. Bellovin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Tickets are an excellent use for this, because it binds the printing to
> a specific physical object. The concert industry has had a problem
> with trying to use print-at-home tickets -- the fraudsters buy a single
> ticket, then print it mult
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nk.net>, John Kelsey writes:
>
>On the other hand, think about the uses of this technology
>for paper bearer instruments. Design travelers' checks that
>include a 2D barcode with a BLS signature, bound to the
>piece of paper, and you can print the damned thing on
>re
>From: "Perry E. Metzger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Aug 6, 2005 2:28 PM
>To: cryptography@metzdowd.com
>Subject: solving the wrong problem
>Frequently, scientists who know nothing about security come
>up with ingenious ways to solve non-existent problem
Perry E. Metzger wrote:
We need a term for this sort of thing -- the steel tamper
resistant lock added to the tissue paper door on the wrong vault
entirely, at great expense, by a brilliant mind that does not
understand the underlying threat model at all.
Anyone have a good phrase in mind that
Frequently, scientists who know nothing about security come up with
ingenious ways to solve non-existent problems. Take this, for example:
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa003&articleID=00049DB6-ED96-12E7-AD9683414B7F
Basically, some clever folks have found a way to "fingerprint" th
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