"Adam D. Lopresto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004, Jonadab the Unsightly One wrote:
>
> The question is whether any of that needs to be core, and I'm
> starting to strongly think it doesn't. I was about to say that perl
> should only go
Jonathan Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> ISAM?
>From the RDBMS world, a kind of index I think, or something along
those lines. MySQL for example has a type of table called MyISAM.
--
$;=sub{$/};@;=map{my($a,$b)=($_,$;);$;=sub{$a.$b->()}}
split//,"[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ --";$\=$ ;-> ();print$/
Andrew Rodland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What about BASIC? Aren't all the little kids today raised on BASIC? :)
I don't know about the kids _today_, but for about twenty years
starting circa 1980 most home computers came with exactly one
programming language tool, and it was BASIC -- line-num
Richard Proctor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Conflict with "last LOOP"? Hm, the context should be enough to
>> distinguish them, no? (Hey, maybe they can be unified somehow --
>> "last -1" to skip to the penultimate pass through the loop? =P)
>
> That could be generalised, "next +1" skipping
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> int1, int2, int4, int8, int16, int32, int64, uint1, uint2, uint4,
> uint8, uint16, uint32, uint64, num32, num64, num128, complex32,
> complex64, complex128, ...
Well, all that is harmless enough, as long as I don't ever have the
misfortune to inherit maint
Aaron Sherman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> It took us some time discussing this... we weren't sure what tense
> you were using. At first we thought it might be the past subjective,
> but after a while, we decided to coin a new tense: the vapor tense. ;-)
Actually, it's not new at all; there's al
John Macdonald <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> If a int1 (or int2 or nybble or other sub-addressable sized value)
> is being referred to, a similar issue arises since most machines
> these days have byte addressing, but do not have bit addressing. If
> you can't refer directly to it, the value will
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That's actually a very good idea. That's why Perl 6 has it :-)
>
> sub MediansBy5 ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) {
> gather {
> while @list >= 5 { # there's no .length; it's .elems
> take (sort @list.splice(0,5))[2];
> }
James Mastros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>As a special case, if the "filename" argument to perl is a
>directory, and the directory contains a file named "main.pl",
>then the directory is prepended to @*INC, and main.pl is run.
I think it would be useful if the "directory" could also
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Jonadab the Unsightly One skribis 2004-09-17 10:46 (-0400):
>> * They are of critical importance on Apache-based webservers.
>
> They are not. See mod_mime_magic.
Magic, as far as I know, only works for filetypes that have known byte
s
Rod Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> One solution I see to this would be to have a "lazy return" of some
> kind, where you can send out what results you have so far, but not
> commit that your execution is over and still allow further results to
> be posted. For lack of better word coming to mi
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Most worlds don't use file extensions, except for humans.
You exaggerate their lack of importance. File extensions don't matter
to most operating system *kernels*, but they are nevertheless
important for more than just Windows:
* They are of critical import
Mark Overmeer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Oops, someone starts the holy war (again). Wether you put the docs
> in begin or end of the file, or intermixed with the code has a lot
> to do with your personal background.
Sorry for the late reply, but I can't let this stand without further
elaborat
"Alexey Trofimenko" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I wanna ask, could be there in perl6 any difficulties with
> recognizing C<::> as part of C<... ?? ... :: ...> and C<::> as
> "module sigil"? Does it involve some DWIM?
Among other things, the ?? will tip off the parser that it's looking
for an ex
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sick would be if <- were introduced to make the variable write-only ;)
Sicker still would be if - were introduced to make the variable
neither readable nor writeable. HTH.HAND.
--
$;=sub{$/};@;=map{my($a,$b)=($_,$;);$;=sub{$a.$b->()}}
split//,"[EMAIL PROTECT
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Not a problem, assuming that these are named arguments as in:
>
> open :r, $file;
> open :w, $file;
> open :rw, $file;
> open :r :w, $file; # Hmm...
I like this approach. :a seems a probable replacement for ">>$file"
then; one imagines that :a
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> hopefully without dependencies on external non-Perl things like gcc).
>
> Don't think it'll be possible for modules that have C components,
I'm really hoping Perl6 will be sufficiently powerful that C
components won't be needed or wanted.
>
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
[surreal numbers]
> Care to explain what those are, O great math teacher?
Surreal Number theory was an attempt in the latter half of the
twentieth century to unify several existing sets of numbers (including
the complex numbers, generalized eps
Johan Vromans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> : my $d="a";
>> : print "--$d--{my $d = "b" }--$d--\n";
>>
>> Yes, that is correct.
>
> I'm afraid things like this will keep many popular editors and IDEs
> from implementing perl6 support...
Then maybe peo
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, by analogy with $foo.bar(), ...
> No Yes
> -- ---
> @foo@foo[1]
> %bar%bar{"a"} or %bar«a»
> $foo.bar$foo.bar()
> &foo&foo(1)
@foo@foo.join(" ")
Yes?
/me idly wonders whether map an
Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well, it seems that there's still a big confusion/indecision about
> the default behaviour. But then an interesting point, and one that
> has already been raised, is that it should be somehow possible to
> customize string interpolation bu means of e.g.
JOSEPH RYAN <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well, that's what all of the ruckus is about. There is a strong
> leaning towards including *no* builtin modules with the core.
Surely, at bare minimum, there must be something included in core to
allow things that are not in core to be easily installe
"Ph. Marek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> This is obviously some new definition of Inf of which I was not
>> previously aware.
> Well, after reading my sentence one more, I see what may have caused
> some troubles. Inf is not in N; but *in my understanding* it fits
> naturally as an extension t
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 1 .. ()
> ^:by(3)
>
> But we'd have to pay really close attention to how indenting is
> done. Maybe we should just pass this suggestion on to Guido... :-)
Yes, please leave column-alignment tricks to Python. I don't even
like the fact that ind
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> my $fh = open ">$filename" :excl;
Can we please not name it with a random character generator? How
about something that communicates what it does in some fashion, at
least well enough to function as a mnemonic?
my $fh = open $filename :rw :norepla
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> And if we do that, I guess that means that "$«file».ext" could be
> made to work as a replacement, which seems conceptually clean if you
> don't think about it too hard.
Now that you put it that way, $( $file ).ext doesn't seem so bad, the
visually-distrac
"Ph. Marek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Please take my words as my understanding, ie. with no connection to
> mathmatics or number theory or whatever. I'll just say what I
> believe is practical.
[...]
> I'd believe that infinity can be integer, ie. has no numbers after
> the comma; and infinity
David Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Does it even make sense to take the Infiniteth element of an array?
No. At best, it would be undefined, so we could define it to return
undef.
> I think I would prefer if using Inf as an array index resulted in a
> trappable error.
Or that, yeah.
--
Austin Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Half of all numbers in [0, Inf) are in the range [Inf/2, Inf). Which
> collapses to the range [Inf, Inf).
It's not that simple. By that reasoning, 10% of all numbers in
[0,Inf) would be in [Inf/10,Inf), also reducing to the range
[Inf,Inf). For tha
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> strange, but :shift«value» looks a little more noisy to me than
>> shift => 'value',
>
> For some reason, it looks that way to me, too.
Me three.
> Perhaps:
>
> :shift« value »
>
> I *think* that's better...
To me, that's even worse. My brain se
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> No, just currently wrong. :-) I changed my mind about it in A12,
> partly on the assumption that $object.attr would actually be more
> common than $file.ext,
Speaking of which, what's the cleanest way to interpolate filenames
with a fixed extension now?
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Or, god forbid, a word?
>
> m:base/que mas/
>
> We're not mathematicians: we're allowed to use more than one letter
> in a row to designate something :-)
Well, if it were *me*, *I* would have voted for keeping the core
language 100% pure ASCII, untain
Dan Hursh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ouch. I hadn't thought of that. I'm a big fan of litering loops with
>
> discard(),next if dontCareBecause(); # it don't matter here
I like the idea here, but I don't think we need the comma...
> type constructs. I was going to suggest
>
>
Austin Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think this is something that we'll want as a "mode", a la
> case-insensitivity. Think of it as "mark insensitivity."
Makes sense to me, but...
> Maybe it can just roll into :i?
It will probably get used in _conjunction_ with case-insensitivity
qui
The Perl 6 Summarizer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Different OO models
> Jonadab the Unsightly One had wondered about having objects
> inheriting behaviour from objects rather than classes in Perl 6.
Urgle. I've completely failed to explain myself so as to be
unde
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Well, perhaps not. Theoretically, at this point, $file has been
> read completely. It's just that it's lying and it hasn't really.
> But if you try to read again, it should resync and things should
> work properly.
That's all well and good if the fileha
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Oh no! Someone doesn't understand continuations! How could this
> happen?! :-)
Yes, well, I've only just started reading up on them recently...
> A continuation doesn't save data. It's just a closure that closes
> over the execution stack
Ah. That
Jonathan Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> For the record, I was mentally parsing this example as:
>
> pray_to $_;
> sacrifice <$virgin> for @evil_gods;
So was I, FWIW.
> The precedence of C isn't very intuitive to me.
Is that an argument for changing its precedence, or for leaving it o
David Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> e.g., is this legal?
>
> sub infix:before ( $before, $after ){ ... }
I should HOPE it would be legal to define infix:before. Some of us
don't want to use untypeable characters every time we want to define
an operator that doesn't conflict with the core
Jonathan Lang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Strictly from a grammatical perspective, I'd be much more comfortable with
> C<, then> instead of C as the perl equivelent of the C-style comma:
> have the "then" keyword change the preceeding comma from a list
> constructor to an expression combiner. F
Brent 'Dax' Royal-Gordon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Actually, I think you're underestimating the little guys. After
> all, if they rolled back *all* of your changes, all they could do
> was repeatedly execute the same code!
Except that you can pass the continuation some arguments, possibly
in
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I thought temp replaced local.
temp is dynamic scoping, the same thing as Perl5's local.
Hypotheticals are the ones that turn permanent if everything succeeds
according to plan but revert to the old value if stuff fails -- a
rollback mechanism, basically. I
Michele Dondi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I must say I've still not read all apocalypses, and OTOH I suspect
> that this could be done more or less easily with a custom function
> (provided that variables will have a method to keep track of their
> history, or, more reasonably, will be *allowed*
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Sure, no big deal. Also, don't forget the trival matter of moving
> from a class-based object system
No, the object system in question is still class-based. The object
forest is orthogonal to that.
--
$;=sub{$/};@;=map{my($a,$b)=($_,$;);$;=sub{$a.$b->
Juerd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> substr($string, 2 but graphemes, 4 but bytes);
>
> I think "but" even makes sense, if substr defaults to something.
That could be combined with a smart substr that only needs the units
once (err, only needs a position object for one of the args) and knows
how t
John Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> $b = 'a';
> my $b ='b' , print "$b\n";
> print "$b\n";
>
> Which seems to show that the "my $b" doesn't actually come into
> scope until the end of the statement in which it is defined.
The comma operator doesn't guarantee order of operation becau
Austin Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A couple of alternatives:
>
> substr.bytes($string, 2, 4) = $substitute;
Well, that's arguably better than bsubstr.
> substr($string.bytes, 2, 4) = $substitute;
I could live with that, although it doesn't allow mixing units.
(Someone will pop in
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Hmm. Suppose that I have a system that is friendly to 80 byte
>> records. I want to output "meaningful" strings, so I want to
>> partition a buffer into 80-ish byte substrings, but preserve any
>> graphemes (i.e., store the data in a legible format).
>>
Austin Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Of course, how hard can it be to implement the .parent property?
.parent and also .children, plus .moveto and .remove (which doesn't
actually destroy the object but sets its parent to undef, basically,
cleaning up the .children property of its parent)
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Speaking of objects... are we going to have a built-in object
>> forest, like Inform has, where irrespective of class any given
>> object can have up to one parent at any given time,
>
> Multiple parent classes, yes.
Not remotely the same thing.
> Pa
Larry Wall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> That all has to be looked at anyway. What does "5" mean when you
> pass it to substr, anyway?
I was just going to ask about substrings, and then didn't because I
figured that had been hashed out already and I'd missed it...
> (I've been trying to make
Paul Hodges wrote:
Do note that I realize I can check it. It's just that for no reason I
can quite define, my C background wants a null byte to be FALSE without
any special chicanery on my part when checking. I can live with the
fact it isn't going to be, it just seems odd to me.
If that seems odd
Paul Hodges wrote:
So a null byte is still Boolean true.
Ugh, yarf, ack, etc.
But as long as I know -- easy enough to check explicitly.
But just tell me thisam I the only guy who thinks this *feels*
wierd?
It doesn't feel weird to me, but my previous languages of choice
were fairly high-level (
Juerd wrote:
That we already have. "0 but true". (perldoc -f fcntl)
It's 1 but false that's really special :)
No, what's really special is the ability to return entirely
different things in string versus numeric context, like the
magic $! does in Perl5.
That, or interesting values of undef :-)
Larry Wall wrote:
What do you mean by "length"?
For a string, it obviously either means number of bytes or number
of characters. Pick one, document it, and let people who want the
other semantic use a pragma.
I don't think it matters which one you pick as default, as long
as it's clearly documen
In Perl5, the following values are FALSE: undef, '0', 0, and ''.
What you fail to note is that each of these is false for a reason.
undef is false so that you can test an object for truth; if it
is undef it obviously contains no data, so it's false. 0 is false
so that you can test numbers for tru
but now i have this issue: I'm coding on Windows, there's already two
unicode compliant monospace fonts: Lucida Console and Courier New. And I
do not like both of them, (f.e. in Courier "{" and "(" looks almost the
same, and lucida has too crude letters). Until now I used to use Fixedsys
Dan Sugalski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Next Apocalypse is objects, and that'll take time.
Objects are *worth* more time than a lot of the other topics.
Arguably, they're just as important as subroutines, in a modern
language.
Speaking of objects... are we going to have a built-in object fo
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A synonym of:
>
> delete %h{foo};
>
> would be
>
> %h{foo} = nonex;
This has the potential, if not documented exactly right, to create
bogus expectations. Consider...
$s = %h{foo} = nonex;
After deleting the foo key (and its value, if any)
"Abhijit A. Mahabal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> On the other hand, if you wanted to say "true for all except exactly
> one value, I can't think of a way.
Easy. The following two statements are equivalent:
F(x) is true for all but exactly one x
(not F(x)) is true for exactly one x
The onl
Luke Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Yes, it's possible to have two routines with the same name which
> differ by signature... however, in Perl 6, C has only one
> signature, and it's the one above. The C loop you are thinking
> of is spelled C,
Oh, yes, forgot about that.
> To the cont
John Siracusa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Did this ever get resolved to anyone's satisfaction? While reading
> EX6, I found myself wonder exactly what for() would look like in
> Perl 6 code...
A for loop[1] is basically syntax sugar for a while loop. In general,
where foo, bar, baz, and quux
"Abhijit A. Mahabal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> There is another problem beyond efficiency: the P6 list semantics is lazy.
>
> The following is valid P6, AFAIK:
>
> for 1 .. Inf {
> print $_;
> last when 10;
> }
Yeah, but that's a foreach loop, despite the fact that "foreach" is
spelled
"Jonadab the Unsightly One" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Does this imply, though, that it's pointing to specific elements,
Wow, I wasn't paying attention to what I was thinking there.
Obviously it points to specific elements, because the subscripts used
to cr
David Storrs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> my $r_slice = [EMAIL PROTECTED];
> @$r_slice = qw/ a b c d e /;
> print @a; # 0 a b c d e 4 5
This seems right to me. It would take approximately no time to get
used to this semantic, IMO.
> # Note that it does NOT modify in r
Iain Truskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> * Jonadab the Unsightly One ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [01 Jul 2003 23:41]:
> > Iain Truskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > > Not the only one. And with Parrot being able to execute
> > > Z-code, it might be san
Iain Truskett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Not the only one. And with Parrot being able to execute Z-code, it
> might be sane to port Inform to Parrot!
Did you mean port Inform to run on Parrot, or port Inform to compile
to parrot? If the former, that should be no problem. If the latter,
I'm n
"Miko O Sullivan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> - I'm looking forward to more Pure Perl modules. I frankly admit
> that I don't like coding in C. Every time I download a module that
> has compiled C code I feel like I'm stuck in some place where I want
> to play baseball and everybody else wants
This was a few days ago, but I just noticed Tim Bunce's comment about
the way other languages do it and thought of the way it is in another
language I know (one that a lot of people don't know), so I'm chiming
in briefly...
Austin Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How about a pre- or user-
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