Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

It's good to know you can still wander in. I used to go there to browse on rainy days when I had nothing to do (pre-internet, of course). -Dave - Original Message - From: "Rick Karlquist" To: li...@lazygranch.com, "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Tuesd

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

(cough) http://www.breakthepaywall.com/ (cough) IE7 on up... CAVEAT: I have not tried these on the ACM or IEEE sites but this works on a couple sites I visit. Dave > -Original Message- > From: time-nuts-boun...@febo.com > [mailto:time-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of paul swed

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

Jim Lux writes: > > On 6/5/12 5:20 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > > Attached are two snapshots of a NASA live feed -- an interesting reminder about the difficulty measuring > timing signals with great precision. > > > > When you look closely, the leading edge of the sun is rather ill-defined, not u

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

TAPR released the TADD-2 in March I believe; I just saw them demo it at Dayton. http://www.tapr.org/kits_tadd-2.html -Chase W4TI ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-n

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (new...

Tim, Can you describe your test setup used to measure the Phase Noise Plots you show in the links provided. Are you using the 8566B to measure the Phase Noise directly, or are you using a Phase Noise test set to make the measurements? Thanks Jerry At 08:33 PM 6/4/2012, you wrote: >On 3/06/2012

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

Ditto. I daisy chained devices together before I got a 10 Mhz distribution amp. So long as I didn't make any changes to the cabling while making critical measurements it seemed to work okay. Regards Mark Spencer -- On Tue, 5 Jun, 2012 8:28 PM EDT Bob Camp wrot

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Chris Wilson wrote: > > > I have thought of something I am unable to find an answer for via the > normal Googling, etcetera. When I get my GPS locked standard will it > be able to feed several items of test equipment simultaneously? IE, > say a sig gen, a frequency

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

It's a Transit, not a 'zero crossing'. -John ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

Hi You should be able to daisy chain a number of devices off of a TBolt. More or less, you run a BNC cable with a bunch of Tee's on it to distribute the signal. The end of the cable should get a 50 ohm load. There are better / fancier / more expensive ways to do it using distribution amplifiers

Re: [time-nuts] zero crossing of venus

On 6/5/12 5:20 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Attached are two snapshots of a NASA live feed -- an interesting reminder about the difficulty measuring timing signals with great precision. When you look closely, the leading edge of the sun is rather ill-defined, not unlike many 1PPS pulses. I suppose

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

Actually LightSquared is an investment firm. They don't make any "technology product". The company is run by a banker. Had their plan worked they would have ben in effect a radio wholesaler buying from producers and sellers to retailers who would then sale to end users. They never intended to

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (newbie).

> Hi > For your immediate need, a Thunderbolt sounds like the ideal > solution. It will give you a very accurate reference to sort out > your test gear and likely "good enough" phase noise for most of the > rest of what you want to do. Once you get into the microwave stuff, > plan your PLL's pro

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

Most situations like that, they end up mostly firing blanks. Peter On Jun 5, 2012, at 7:31 PM, Michael Blazer wrote: > Sounds like a gun with no safety and a hair trigger. > > On 6/4/2012 10:41 PM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: >> A law firm with a technology department? >> >> >> -Dave >> >

Re: [time-nuts] LightSquared in the news again

Sounds like a gun with no safety and a hair trigger. On 6/4/2012 10:41 PM, d.sei...@comcast.net wrote: A law firm with a technology department? -Dave - Original Message - From: "Michael Blazer" To: time-nuts@febo.com Sent: Monday, June 4, 2012 7:44:26 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Light

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

li...@lazygranch.com wrote: > Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the > library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a > password. BTW, the library in Terman hall is the "Engineering Library" not the "Terman Library". A common misconception.

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

Terman Library (Stanford) used let any schmuck use the computers in the library. You could email the articles to yourself. Now it requires a password. They don't check for ID to enter the library, but the number of journals they get in dead tree edition is few. ___

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

On 06/ 5/12 09:23 PM, Jerry Mulchin wrote: I joined IEEE for a while a few years ago with the hopes of being able to access the libraries I wanted most. What a shock to find out that I had to pay additional monies to get access to those files. So I quit the IEEE and now I keep getting Emails from

Re: [time-nuts] IRE thread

Boy, I haven't thought about Notes on the Network for a decade or two but I used to refer to it all the time. I see that it's available here: http://telecom-info.telcordia.com/site-cgi/ido/docs.cgi?DOCUMENT=sr-2275&ID=229670761SEARCH for the low, low price of only $700 - soft copy only, of cou

[time-nuts] GPS through windows

You can buy windows (or coverings) designed to block RF. The most common version blocks cell freqs/wifi/etc. Generally used with a matching wall covering to keep your secret sauce from getting out. While you're at it, add the window vibrator to give the laser microphones an earful. And

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

Do it before libraries are outlawed! Getting information is getting more and more difficult. Perhaps we are seeing the sunset of the "age of information." On 06/05/12, Tom Harris wrote: A previous employer of mine would not come up with a subscription to IEEE mags, so I fou

Re: [time-nuts] IRE thread

There maybe more the IRE's. I have a smaller pile waiting for me to find a way back to Oregon, 260 Lbs of Mcgraw-Hill Electronics. The 600-800 lbs is what I was told the remaining mags weighs. He told me they were IREs and early IEEE's. If anyone is interested, I can find out. I am still looking

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

A previous employer of mine would not come up with a subscription to IEEE mags, so I found an alternative: I joined the local university library as an external borrower. This gave me a login to all the electronic mags that the library subscribed to, unfortunately it only worked inside the library's

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

On 6/5/12 9:14 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote: The low-E coatings are known to attenuate WIFI. WIFI is probably a worse case than GPS, but the availability of the gear makes experimenting easy. I think they are sputtered metal either on the glass or on a thin

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 13:20:55 -0700 "Rick Karlquist" wrote: > I have a bound set of IRE/IEEE Proceedings from about 1920 to 1985. > If anyone wants them, they are free for the taking. I wouldnt mind getting them.. although i guess i would need another bookshelf or two. But the shipping costs to Sw

Re: [time-nuts] IRE thread

Have you found "Notes on the Network" anywhere? -Chuck Harris paul swed wrote: Pete Well thats a heck of a response. You think there is 600-800 lbs of them! I would not have thought there were so many. But say there were 40 years worth and they were published 1 X per month at 1 lb each that wou

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

I joined IEEE for a while a few years ago with the hopes of being able to access the libraries I wanted most. What a shock to find out that I had to pay additional monies to get access to those files. So I quit the IEEE and now I keep getting Emails from them asking me to join again at a reduced ra

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

I have a bound set of IRE/IEEE Proceedings from about 1920 to 1985. If anyone wants them, they are free for the taking. Rick Karlquist N6RK J. Forster wrote: > Good luck. > > About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local R&D company > for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

Hi David, Since I apparently have no cred, I can give you a quote from Jasik: "A right hand helical antenna transmits or receives right-hand polarization while a left-hand helical antenna will transmit or receive left-hand polarization." Jasik, "Antenna Engineering Handbook", First Edition, p17

[time-nuts] IRE thread

Pete Well thats a heck of a response. You think there is 600-800 lbs of them! I would not have thought there were so many. But say there were 40 years worth and they were published 1 X per month at 1 lb each that would be 480 lbs. But I don't actually think they were 40 years and a pound each. I kn

Re: [time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 15:40:48 -0400 Michael Tharp wrote: > On 06/05/2012 03:31 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: > > * The XC6SLX9 is<10USD more expensive than the SLX6. I think the added > >value of having twice as much "real estate" would justify the additional > >price. > > Some vendors don't e

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

Good luck. About 20 years ago, I bought out the entire library of a local R&D company for $10, including well over 50' of 7' high shelves of professional journals. (There were a number of books I wanted and I got more than my money's worth on those.} Anyway, I tried to sell the journals without

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

Moin, On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 12:45:24 -0400 "Bob Camp" wrote: > The crystal in the OCXO is what likely makes or breaks it's performance. > About the only way to check the crystal is to measure the ADEV, phase noise, > and aging of the oscillator. There's really no shortcut there. > > Aging is prob

Re: [time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 13:48:17 -0400 Michael Tharp wrote: > Disclaimer: I know very little about actually implementing a GPS > receiver, and about RF in general, but I know a cool project when I see > one and this has a lot of the elements needed for a fully open-source > timing receiver. Lookin

Re: [time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

On 06/05/2012 03:31 PM, Attila Kinali wrote: * The XC6SLX9 is<10USD more expensive than the SLX6. I think the added value of having twice as much "real estate" would justify the additional price. Some vendors don't even stock the SLX6, including Digi-Key! Agreed though, it would be neat

Re: [time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

On Tue, 5 Jun 2012 08:03:53 -0700 Peter Monta wrote: > o far I have a prototype board outputting bits from which GPS signals > on L1 and L2 have been successfully acquired and tracked. Next steps > are to play with acquiring some GPS L5, Glonass, and Galileo signals, > and to apply some minor cl

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

I may still have the option to get something like 600 to 800 lbs of IRE publications. I think in South Dakota. If anyone is game/interested I can check. On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 6:15 AM, paul swed wrote: > Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now > carefully see what go

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

On 06/ 5/12 06:43 PM, J. Forster wrote: IMO, the IEEE is pretty much useless for practicing engineers. It is mostly by and for academics to build up their resumes YMMV, -John I disagree with that. I find the IEEE useful as a practicing engineer. I think a lot of companies do to. My own empl

Re: [time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

On 06/05/2012 11:03 AM, Peter Monta wrote: I've been working on a front-end board suitable for GPS and other GNSS systems. It might be of interest to time-nuts given the application to timing receivers. Very impressive. Since I discovered time-nuts this is exactly what I wanted to make, and y

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

The IEEE may well publish 'almost a third...', but how many people actually read their stuff? It would be interesting to know what percentage of articles are actually read by more than a handfull, working in each field. At one point I was getting easily 6" of professional journals a month from AI

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

On 06/ 5/12 04:06 PM, Rex wrote: I took a scan through Kraus "Antennas" since he did much of the definitive work on Helical antennas. In his chapter on Wave Polarization he gives a mathematical definition of Left- and Right-circular polarization, then quickly mentions that the IEEE definition is

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

Both ACM and IEEE are publishers at heart. IEEE likes to boast that they publish almost a third of the world's technical literature. It's instructive to look at their annual reports, where sources and uses of funds are documented. Follow the money, always. Joe Gwinn Ref:

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

Hi OCXO's are mostly made up of the "usual stuff" of electronics. Once you get past the heater, just about anything might go wrong. Usually it doesn't but that's no real guarantee. The crystal in the OCXO is what likely makes or breaks it's performance. About the only way to check the crystal is

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

To quote Jasik's treatment of Kraus's work: "There are two kinds of circular polarization, right-hand, and left-hand. Either type may be generated by a helical beam antenna, depending on the manner in which the helix is wound. A helix wound like a right-hand screw radiates or receives right-

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 3:18 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: > On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:11:03 +0200 > Attila Kinali wrote: > > > > I recently bought some Oscilloquartz 8663 from ebay and am now wondering > > how to check whether they are working correctly or whether they are > > out of specs. > > > > Unfo

Re: [time-nuts] GPS through windows

On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 11:26 PM, wrote: > The low-E coatings are known to attenuate WIFI. WIFI is probably a worse > case than GPS, but the availability of the gear makes experimenting easy. I > think they are sputtered metal either on the glass or on a thin film > applied to the glass. Southwall

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

Hi: I've used an L band amplifier and a passive GPS receive antenna as the transmitting antenna to make a GPS repeater. It was feed from an outside GPS antenna. This allowed having a number of hand held GPS receivers sitting side by side working inside. Have Fun, Brooke Clarke http://www.PR

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

I took a scan through Kraus "Antennas" since he did much of the definitive work on Helical antennas. In his chapter on Wave Polarization he gives a mathematical definition of Left- and Right-circular polarization, then quickly mentions that the IEEE definition is the opposite. He has a footnote

[time-nuts] GPS / GNSS front-end board

I've been working on a front-end board suitable for GPS and other GNSS systems. It might be of interest to time-nuts given the application to timing receivers. Goals for the project: - high-quality signals from all current and near-future GNSS systems (GPS, Glonass, Galileo, Compass) - wide ban

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

Tom Van Baak wrote: The easiest way to think about it is to mentally think of the path from the transmitter to the receiver as a very long piece of threaded rod, and the wave being emitted as being a nut traveling on the rod. Ah, and each of the photons then becomes a time nut. Of course! I

Re: [time-nuts] Those helix antennas in the photos...

On 6/5/2012 5:36 AM, George Dubovsky wrote: On (B) and (C), helices are tapered to broadband their frequency response. Usually the pitch changes along with the diameter. 73, geo - n4ua I was just reading in the 3rd edition of Antenna Engineering Handbook, that the sharp taper at the end give

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

> The easiest way to think about it is to mentally think of the path from > the transmitter to the receiver as a very long piece of threaded rod, and > the wave being emitted as being a nut traveling on the rod. Ah, and each of the photons then becomes a time nut. /tvb _

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

I guarantee you it doesn't cause any controversy among those that use circularly polarized antennas. That the polarization changes from RHCP to LHCP when reflected is certainly the cause of some confusion about the antennas. A RHCP antenna that directly emits a wave towards the source will becom

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

Its actully pretty pervasive these days. I hate those sights so now carefully see what googles pointing me to before jumping if possible. So a quick question and not to take the thread. Anyone know if the old IRE papers might exist someplace for free? I ran across a few of the actual magazines and

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noisequestion (new...

Hi Put another way - nobody should directly multiply 10 MHz to 10 GHz with an real expectation of low phase noise when they are done. The design of that multiplier chain is a big part of the equipment design. Cheap out on it and you will have trouble. The same issues also get into high speed timi

Re: [time-nuts] Those helix antennas in the photos...

On (B) and (C), helices are tapered to broadband their frequency response. Usually the pitch changes along with the diameter. 73, geo - n4ua On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 7:47 AM, Michael Baker wrote: > Time-Nutters-- > > What I saw in the photos of the helix antennas that I > found interesting was:

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

Agreed, the first is the current then the frequency at 2.5V (mine are 0-5V EFC range). Usually the oven is defective (no heat) and I learned myself how to fix them (they are the MV201). On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: > On 05/06/12 12:18, Attila Kinali wrote: > >> On Wed,

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

I dropped my membership a couple of years ago. Every single thing cost money; I couldn't even skim through papers to see if they were applicable without paying full price and it became increasingly difficult to justify membership PLUS paying for browsing privileges especially when t

[time-nuts] Those helix antennas in the photos...

Time-Nutters-- What I saw in the photos of the helix antennas that I found interesting was: A) The tapered cone-shaped cup that some of the helix antennas sat in. What does this do? Most helix antennas seem to sit over a flat ground plane but these are different. B) Some of the

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

On 05/06/12 12:18, Attila Kinali wrote: On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:11:03 +0200 Attila Kinali wrote: I recently bought some Oscilloquartz 8663 from ebay and am now wondering how to check whether they are working correctly or whether they are out of specs. Unfortunately, although i have a reasonab

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

I'm in astrophysics and arXiv is there just for that. Why don't others do that? Jim On Tuesday, 5 June 2012, Attila Kinali wrote: > On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700 > Hal Murray > wrote: > > > The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over from > when > > they could get

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nutcan answer

On Mon, 04 Jun 2012 23:11:14 -0700 Jim Lux wrote: > On 6/4/12 10:44 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 10:18 PM, Hal Murray wrote: > >> > >> What is the significance of the pointy tops of the long skinny antennas? > >> > > > > Guessing. Terminates the end of the conductor to

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

On Tue, 05 Jun 2012 00:26:56 -0700 Hal Murray wrote: > The IEEE is particularly behind the times. I assume it's left over from when > they could get away with it because they only had to jack up the price of > printed stuff by a small amount. Some of this may trace back to their > standards

Re: [time-nuts] GPS and Rubidium frequency standards and noise question (new...

Most Rb's can be improved when it comes to phase noise even a FRK-H, some by replacing the internal oscillators, some by adding an external analog loop. How ever multiplying to 10 GHz and you have to contend with the 60 db deterioration. One way around is higher frequency XTAL or SAW oscillat

Re: [time-nuts] is there a cheap and simple way to measure OCXOs?

On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:11:03 +0200 Attila Kinali wrote: > I recently bought some Oscilloquartz 8663 from ebay and am now wondering > how to check whether they are working correctly or whether they are > out of specs. > > Unfortunately, although i have a reasonable park of measurement instrumen

Re: [time-nuts] Paywall rant

In message <20120605072656.314c1800...@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net>, Hal Mu rray writes: >The IEEE is particularly behind the times. As is ACM. I'm told through the grapewine that digital subscriptions is a major part of their budget, so nothing will be opened unless with a crowbar. -- Pou

Re: [time-nuts] Antenna question about RHCP/LHCP I'm sure a time-nut can answer

On 5 June 2012 01:12, Dave Martindale wrote: > I don't think that's correct. This is a funny topic. No matter where see it discussed, there are people with different views on it. I looked on the edaforum http://www.edaboard.com/forum26.html and found a thread (can't find it now unfortunatey), w

[time-nuts] Paywall rant

li...@lazygranch.com said: > Pay-walls on technical journals have to go. The IEEE doesn't pay the author > for the article. They used to make the author pay a small fee. Anyway, the > exorbitant fees of technical journals discourages cross-discipline research. > You can't be a member of every one