On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 1:16 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint <
zeropo...@charter.net> wrote:
> One fact that is conveniently ignored by the ones casting suspicion on
> Rossi, is that he obtained his $ to finance all his work on e-Cat by
> selling his interest in the biofuel company, which IIRC, he was
age-
From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 8:52 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: RE: [Vo]:LENR & 'Proliferation' was: US DOE alters its stance on
LENR and Rossi?
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
At the risk
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 10 Jan 2012 08:52:17 -0800:
Hi Jones,
Actually I largely agree with your position. I too think that fusion reactions
are unlikely in this case (though not impossible). I'm trying to keep an open
mind here. Note also that I think the H+H->D reaction is ver
-Original Message-
From: mix...@bigpond.com
> No positron - no H+H fusion. It is almost that simple.
You appear to be neglecting H-H fusion by electron capture. This also
happens in
the Sun, but at a low rate.
Hi Robin,
If the EC reaction happens in the sun (at a low rate), given the
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Fri, 30 Dec 2011 01:59:19 +0100:
Hi,
[snip]
>Well finding deuterium would be definitive proof of 'something anomalous'
>but not fusion, since they can absolutely rule out ALL varieties of hydrogen
>fusion now. You absolutely have to get rid of a positive charge
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 29 Dec 2011 14:28:38 -0800 (PST):
Hi,
[snip]
>The monitor used by Rossi's team in January is specifically designed to detect
>positrons, which must be there if there is to be H+H fusion. None were
>detected.
There is a bit of a problem with this. The de
Yes I heard Celani saying that as well.
AG
On 12/30/2011 3:43 PM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Dec 29, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Horace
ØOnce again - there is ZERO evidence of fusion. And for that matter -
there is no evidence for any known nuclear reaction.
How about the detection
Reference:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/FocardiSevidenceof.pdf
*Evidence of electromagnetic radiation from Ni-H Systems*
*Conclusion:*
We have presented experimental results for photon emission observed in
three different experiments
performed during a preliminary preparation step of
On Dec 29, 2011, at 3:42 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Horace
Ø Once again - there is ZERO evidence of fusion. And for that
matter - there is no evidence for any known nuclear reaction.
How about the detection of gammas by Celani on start-up and shut
down? Celani is credible. The gammas adm
Transmutations are observed in both Palladium and Nickel based systems.
Excess heat is observed in both Palladium and Nickel based systems. Lack
of radiation is observed in both Palladium and Nickel based systems.
Heat after Death is observed in both Palladium and Nickel based systems.
DDSLA (D
OK - I see that you are conflating prior LENR with Rossi. That is easy to do,
but complicates everything.
We are in agreement that LENR is very strange if you try to distill knowledge
from the full range, since it covers too much territory to make easy
generalizations. Deuterium experiments are
You must be joking? Right? Jed's archives are full of reports of
transmutations. Even the high school kids reported transmutations. May I
suggest you need to step outside your Standard Model mind set and
actually read what other are reporting? Remember the "Experiment Rules".
There are transmut
I'm pretty sure you have not followed this thread very closely, or else you are
a bit too trustworthy of Rossi.
What "observed transmutations" are you speaking of? Please do not say "this is
what AR told me". BTW, nickel to copper is NOT an acceptable answer. There is
no
such thing as nickel
"Could be an unknown reaction going on here"??? You mean "There is an
unknown reaction going on here". As for salvaging, there is nothing to
salvage. The "experiment rules". Game, Set, Match.
Should I again mention the observed transmutations? Yea I know, they
can't be real as there are no nuc
Well finding deuterium would be definitive proof of 'something anomalous'
but not fusion, since they can absolutely rule out ALL varieties of hydrogen
fusion now. You absolutely have to get rid of a positive charge somehow to
get to deuterium, and no positron is seen in an instrument designed for t
Horace
* Once again - there is ZERO evidence of fusion. And for that matter -
there is no evidence for any known nuclear reaction.
How about the detection of gammas by Celani on start-up and shut down?
Celani is credible. The gammas admittedly could be faked.
Yes Celani is credib
Looks like the Philosopher's Stone was working overtime ;)
AG
On 12/30/2011 9:46 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
and for some amusement on the side:
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MalloveEalchemynig.pdf
Jones Beene wrote:
Complete nonsense.
The monitor used by Rossi's team in January is specifically designed
to detect positrons, which must be there if there is to be H+H fusion.
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that like saying there must be
neutrons if D+D fusion is occurring? It is def
On Dec 29, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
Complete nonsense.
I like your candor! 8^)
The monitor used by Rossi's team in January is specifically
designed to detect positrons, which must be there if there is to be
H+H fusion. None were detected.
Yes. I stated this in my arti
Ah yes, I see. Are you then saying the FPE Alchemists used a
Philosopher's stone to generate all the observed transmutations?
AG
On 12/30/2011 8:58 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
Once again - there is ZERO evidence of fusion. And for that matter -
there is no evidence for any known nuclear reaction.
Complete nonsense.
The monitor used by Rossi's team in January is specifically designed to detect
positrons, which must be there if there is to be H+H fusion. None were detected.
All other forms of fusion with nickel produce radioisotopes of varying
half-lives - easy to detect - which Rossi him
On Dec 29, 2011, at 8:27 AM, Jones Beene wrote:
-Original Message-
From: Horace Heffner
They cannot fuse. Surprisingly many vorticians apparently do not
realize that this reaction is strongly endothermic.
This is false. Consider:
H + H --> D + e+ + v + 0.42 MeV
That is half th
At 11:31 AM 12/29/2011, Jones Beene wrote:
Makes no sense to argue
otherwise. Bite the bullet. There is no evidence of
hydrogen fusion in Rossi; and there are many hours of data showing that
no
radiation over background is occurring - and moreover it was done using
a
very capable monitoring devic
Jones Beene wrote:
> There is no evidence it isn't. No one has checked, as far as I know.
>
>
> Really? The highest quality testing which was performed in Bologna was
> radiation monitoring.
>
You would not catch cold fusion Pd D+D reactions with this. They do not
produce radiation. I presume H
Jones Beene wrote:
> Rothwell was among the most vocal proponents of using gamma spectroscopy as
> proof of LENR, so it is a bit surprising that he seems to be backtracking a
> bit.
I am not backtracking. That's silly. Gamma rays have been seen, but never
at levels commensurate with plasma fus
To clarify one point. Gammas are not always seen in Pd-D experiments -
especially with simple Geiger type monitors. In the early days, gammas were
even said to be absent.
Then with better instrumentation - gammas started to show up - even in
watt-level experiments.
Rothwell was among the most vo
Jones,
Nice argument regarding fusion - I thought a relativistic
interpretation had to leave the possibility of fusion open but you are correct
in citing the lack of nuclear ash to rule out fusion. I know there are some
claims of transmuted elements being detected - Were you implying the
From: Jed Rothwell
Big difference. There is no evidence that hydrogen fusion is involved in
Rossi.
There is no evidence it isn't. No one has checked, as far as I know.
Really? The highest quality testing which was performed in Bologna was
radiation monitoring.
Top notch instrumentation and
Jones Beene wrote:
> Big difference. There is no evidence that hydrogen fusion is involved in
> Rossi.
>
There is no evidence it isn't. No one has checked, as far as I know.
- Jed
-Original Message-
From: Horace Heffner
> They cannot fuse. Surprisingly many vorticians apparently do not
> realize that this reaction is strongly endothermic.
This is false. Consider:
H + H --> D + e+ + v + 0.42 MeV
That is half the story. You neglect the threshold condition.
-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X
> I have to consider a reaction that only occurs in extreme relativistic
warp induced by suppression of larger virtual particles - the resulting
radiation would have to likewise translate from this extreme warp back to
normal space before we coul
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