Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Well that's something to contemplate because most of the important electronic/ classical electronic music from the 60's and 70's made its impact when it was released on vinyl. Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. Techno: The Future Sound Of Detroit! (Virgin/10) is probably the most important electronic music CD to come out of Detroit. Your list also lack's some important CD's from the early 90's like 808 State Album 90 (ZTT), LFO Frequencies (Warp), Blueprints for Modern Technology (Plus 8), the Artificial Intelligence comps are way more important then some of the idm names on your list. Oh yeah, and there's that From Beyond comp on IDT that I'm not that crazy about. I'm getting real sick and tired of electro and early 80's nostalgia. If you people want to be nostalgic try and make something that sounds like Mike Dunn - Magic Feet. Not as easy as using that 808 break beat formula huh? my .02, stephen. I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. Matt
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Callin Tobin DB is not a matter of taste and not saying its good(or bad) music. The question wasn't whether Tobin is drum and bass (I'd never call him that, but I've never heard Bricolage.) His work, at least the portion I've heard from Supermodified, is an amazing example of electronic music that at least somewhat exceeds being caught up in genrification. We need more like that. And while I'm soap-boxing, Datachi's new one, Wearealwayswellthankyou is amazing. Josh Landau phase 10 tuesdays, noon to three WCBN-FM 88.3, ann arbor, mi
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
thumb up for this... --- Ryan Heard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't realize music was such a pony race folks. All due respect to the 313 people and their huge mental reservoirs of music trivia but... I'll second a previous lister when I ask that we go private with this thread... it turned into nothing but bashing other peoples' tastes which isn't very progressive now is it? :) Ryan Heard -Original Message- From: Sarah Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno What do u mean by truly innovative. I think that there is nothing in between something that is innovative and something that is not. Innovative is just making changes in anything established. So i cant see why Carl Craig isn't innovative, u just have to listen to Innerzone orchestra Programmed. Goldie and much of the drum 'n' bass contingent reckon he's innovative, too - remember Bug In The Bassbin? i might be going on a limb here.. when i first heard of innerzone orchestra, i thought to myself, 'ok, it's carl craig, trying to do some free-formish electronic jazz oriented music.. i need to get this..' being a HUGE fan of tortoise and isotope 217, both from chicago, i figured that innerzone orchestra was just what i needed.. i find much of the innerzone orchestra material to be boring and repetitive.. isotope 217 especially, [tortoise not so much because they aren't as electronically based, except for the phenomenal remixes cd] blows carl craig out of the water when it comes to the jazz/electronic fusion idea.. this thought was even shared by a close friend of mine who was into craig many years before i was, and who is also a big tortoise/isotope 217 fan.. call us northern michigan kids crazy, if you will.. carl craig hasn't ever really done all that much for me, anyway.. but what do i know.. i've only been into the detroit techno scene for a year.. ;) - sarah _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 18/09/00 16:18:38 GMT Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Amon Tobin's Bricolage is a work of art. It may well be, but if you are talking in terms of jungle there is no way it could be ranked above all the true masters - Roni Size, Goldie, Grooverider, Hype - I'm not gonna bother to name any more, but the list would go on and on and on if I did. The best stuff in jungle isn't necessarily all the big names. Remarc (Don FM, Dollar Records) was the best old skool junglist I ever heard (djing and producing) but you don't hear about the guy anymore... There's loads I could mention too but Amon Tobin is wicked, especially the older stuff. T-Power is another Amon Tobin-esque producer whose Self Evident Truth of An Intuitive Mind ranks as one of the best jungle/drum 'n' bass albums ever IMHO. He's a world apart from Goldie and his sell out mates. l8r, Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Callin Tobin DB is not a matter of taste and not saying its good(or bad) music. Just that it's not within that style, or to be more precise, not part of that particular musical discussion. Bricollage is not trying to be part of the style they call db, its far too different from stuff put out by peepz like Size 4hero Groove Goldie et al. Some consider that 2 b a compliment..(not my opinion though) Define Drum 'n' Bass... Sleep inducing two step? Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
The best stuff in jungle isn't necessarily all the big names. Remarc (Don FM, Dollar Records) was the best old skool junglist I ever heard (djing and producing) but you don't hear about the guy anymore... You mean Remarc who did some slamming tunes for Suburban Base like 6 years ago? As far as I know, he is making speed garage (hmmm) now... And first T-Power album was indeed excellent... but I find 2nd, Waveform a bit boring... nevertheless, his new LP will be out next month on London's Botchit Breaks, new sublabel of Emotif/BotchitScarper posse. Speaking of drum'n'bass, this music seems to be biting its tail for at least last year - believe me, I can tell how the tune sounds like by only looking at the vinyl's grooves... And some of the smartest producers are moving away from d'n'b cliches - like excellent stuff by Nubian Minds (Colin Lindo, still making d'n'b for Reinforced as Alpha Omega) or Domu (Sonar Circle, also on Reinforced). And anyone heard the new Photek LP? It has some dope deep vocal house tunes, some relaxed downtempo with analogue synths and only ONE d'n'b track... On the other hand, Roni Size's Reprazent will have new album In The Mode out Oct. 3rd and it's 100% hard and funky d'n'b with lot of rapping: one track with Method Man, one with Zack de la Rocha of Rage Against The Machine, but the real standout for me is the track with The Roots' Rahzel - he did whole drum'n'bass track with all breaks, basses etc. with his mouth!! I interviewed Roni yesterday and asked about d'n'b copying the same cliches he replied, that it's still a very young genre and that the producers will surely move it to the next level... in 10 years time... We'll see... for now, some latest/soon to be released d'n'b albums by forward thinking artists: TOTAL SCIENCE Advance (C.I.A.) KLUTE Fear Of People (Certificate 18) and of course new Guy Called Gerald on K7, but it has very little to do with d'n'b... peace, ]m[ maciek sienkiewicz There's loads I could mention too but Amon Tobin is wicked, especially the older stuff. T-Power is another Amon Tobin-esque producer whose Self Evident Truth of An Intuitive Mind ranks as one of the best jungle/drum 'n' bass albums ever IMHO. He's a world apart from Goldie and his sell out mates. l8r, Nick (Dj Pacific:)
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Hi Maciek You mean Remarc who did some slamming tunes for Suburban Base like 6 years ago? As far as I know, he is making speed garage (hmmm) now... That's the guy:) He's never doing speed garage!?!?!! Dammit... And first T-Power album was indeed excellent... but I find 2nd, Waveform a bit boring... Me too but the thing with Waveform was that it was more experimental... moving into nu skool breaks... it's all d'n'b anyhow... Speaking of drum'n'bass, this music seems to be biting its tail for at least last year - believe me, I can tell how the tune sounds like by only looking at the vinyl's grooves... This is true as well, I think the worse thing that has happened is the trend for 2step... as far as I was concerned d'n'b's trademark was the hard and complex breakbeats... Too many wannabes have made their way onto the scene since Goldie took jungle to the masses and created a formula... this is when scenes start to die, when it becomes formulaic... Take happy hardcore for example... it's been going downhill for the past 8 years And some of the smartest producers are moving away from d'n'b cliches - like excellent stuff by Nubian Minds (Colin Lindo, still making d'n'b for Reinforced as Alpha Omega) or Domu (Sonar Circle, also on Reinforced). Coincidentally, I buy all this stuff. Archive Records are wicked... Nubian Mindz stuff always has a detroity electro edge... dark and funksome... like it:) I never actually liked a lot of Roni Size's stuff much. I much preferred Dj Krust, one of his proteges, very mechanical sounds... sounds like a foundry on plastic:) TOTAL SCIENCE Advance (C.I.A.) KLUTE Fear Of People (Certificate 18) Klute... deep and of course new Guy Called Gerald on K7, but it has very little to do with d'n'b... Guy Called Gerald is aiming at the mainstream dance market so I hear... Some of his new tunes are nice but Black Secret Technology was better cya later, Nick (Dj Pacific:) __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
It's a good thing you're not a reviews editor! ;) LOL!!! Yes, I am sure the artists will agree... The thing is, I really think art as a whole has been nearly killed be insistent acts of symbolic reference and foggy at best reviews. So busy are both the artists and pseudo-intellects with the academics of it all; who surround themselves with method and meaning so that the raw beauty becomes totally lost... And when all this symbolic interpretation gets forced on something as undefined as techno, well, the magic is rarely recognized, to say the least... I really feel that this is all new, thus requiring a new way of viewing... darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Callin Tobin DB is not a matter of taste and not saying its good(or bad) music. Just that it's not within that style, or to be more precise, not part of that particular musical discussion. Bricollage is not trying to be part of the style they call db, its far too different from stuff put out by peepz like Size 4hero Groove Goldie et al. Some consider that 2 b a compliment..(not my opinion though) 154
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
What do u mean by truly innovative. I think that there is nothing in between something that is innovative and something that is not. Innovative is just making changes in anything established. So i cant see why Carl Craig isn't innovative, u just have to listen to Innerzone orchestra Programmed. Goldie and much of the drum 'n' bass contingent reckon he's innovative, too - remember Bug In The Bassbin? i might be going on a limb here.. when i first heard of innerzone orchestra, i thought to myself, 'ok, it's carl craig, trying to do some free-formish electronic jazz oriented music.. i need to get this..' being a HUGE fan of tortoise and isotope 217, both from chicago, i figured that innerzone orchestra was just what i needed.. i find much of the innerzone orchestra material to be boring and repetitive.. isotope 217 especially, [tortoise not so much because they aren't as electronically based, except for the phenomenal remixes cd] blows carl craig out of the water when it comes to the jazz/electronic fusion idea.. this thought was even shared by a close friend of mine who was into craig many years before i was, and who is also a big tortoise/isotope 217 fan.. call us northern michigan kids crazy, if you will.. carl craig hasn't ever really done all that much for me, anyway.. but what do i know.. i've only been into the detroit techno scene for a year.. ;) - sarah _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Yeah! Here's hoping this goes well. Anyway, your list had quite a few of the choices I would put on there, along with some which I love but wouldn't have thought to put on such a list (eg music for airports). I've got a few ideas though - what about the Round 1-5 comp? I'm surprised that wasn't there. Also, I'd consider putting on some of the house albums, like something from Larry Heard perhaps, or Ron Trent or Nicholson. Bob Marley is a definite candidate. So is Juan Atkins, although you do mention him. What do y'all think? Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:44 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. Matt __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Your all missing the point, who gives a F@@k about the money and the attitude we're (or so I thought) talking about music) not about your last interview with so and so, or how blah blah blah never shook your hand after the show, or whether or not a whole show is improvised (christ even iggy pop rehearses his shows now). His attempt at making emotional music has worked, his music is being used in commercials around the world, because it moves you. You think its a pretty blatent ripoff, well to the trained ear maybe, but then again I could go on how about how Pepe Braddock ripped off Tribe who ripped off the NY Philharmonic, and that's way more obvious. BTW In your three paragraphs of writing you spent all but two sentences talking about music, your letting yourself get to wrapped up in the inner workings of the people behind the music instead of enjoying it for what it is (MUSIC). Morrisey rocks! todd - Original Message - From: FRED MCMURRY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno I must agree with Cyclone on this one. Moby is the pop poster boy of techno. He's insanely jealous of the Detroit artists (it was evident when I talked to him about it) and that whole punk rock record he made was a complete mistake. His agent told him to get back into dance music because it was what people liked so he did it otherwise he might still be trying to be punk. He even said at one time, though he won't admit it (and I tried to get him to come clean about it), that he _left_ dance music because it was boring and all the wrong people were getting attention (at the time it was Aphex Twin) and that intelligent techno was getting all the attention and he thought it didn't deserve it. His attempt at making emotional music is pretty blatent minor key classical rip-offs. Go was interesting but not ground-breaking. The one track with, what was it, 1000 bpms? Wow, really stretching it there (sarcasim). The music sounds nice at times but I really think he follows what will put him in the spotlight and then wrapping himslef in a cloak of mystery and the little loser act to get sympathy (like that other wanker Morrisey). Which he isn't, he's one rich mutherf*cker. To compare his work to St. Germain is an insult to St. Germain and music with guts. I've seen him live several times and had the chance to see him rehearse his act before the actual live show. I saw and heard absolutely no improvisation or real heart and soul displayed...very choreographed. Even his jams on the bongos were worked out before hand. After talking with him and doing extensive background research on him I really do feel that he would be doing something else if dance music wasn't paying his bills. Fred From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:24:38 +1000 I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I just don't get the Moby is a pioneer argument myself. You know the story of that album, don't you? Moby went out to his local chain store bought two CDs of old blues/gospel samples and thought aha and viola. You could do it. Even Puffy is more original as at least he devised an aesthetic (hip-hop soul) and didn't just sample. And as for Moby's live shows, well. Now Garnier, there IS a genius. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I disagree. His attempt at making emotional music has worked, his music is being used in commercials around the world, because it moves you. Speak for yourself. It may move you but not I. It is used by huge mnc ad agencies and their respective clients because it is accesible ie. mass distributed, recognisable, and the publishers are slutty enough to have it prostituted to sell feminine hygiene products or whatever. It is used because people know it, and people will also know the associated video clip, the snow dome and the t-shirt and the whole host of merchandise that accompanies most mass distributed regressive music these days. I believe that your are equating musical success with financial succes, something which in reality are unfortunately not that closely correlated. your letting yourself get to wrapped up in the inner workings of the people behind the music instead of enjoying it for what it is (MUSIC). I think your getting yourself wrapped up in the inner workings of what constitutes commercial music success (ie $$$) rather than the music itself. D who gives a F@@k about the money and the attitude I'm pretty sure you do!! Just my small opinion Peace, R -Original Message- From: M. Todd Smith [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, 19 September 2000 17:05 To: FRED MCMURRY Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject:Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno Your all missing the point, who gives a F@@k about the money and the attitude we're (or so I thought) talking about music) not about your last interview with so and so, or how blah blah blah never shook your hand after the show, or whether or not a whole show is improvised (christ even iggy pop rehearses his shows now). His attempt at making emotional music has worked, his music is being used in commercials around the world, because it moves you. You think its a pretty blatent ripoff, well to the trained ear maybe, but then again I could go on how about how Pepe Braddock ripped off Tribe who ripped off the NY Philharmonic, and that's way more obvious. BTW In your three paragraphs of writing you spent all but two sentences talking about music, your letting yourself get to wrapped up in the inner workings of the people behind the music instead of enjoying it for what it is (MUSIC). Morrisey rocks! todd - Original Message - From: FRED MCMURRY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno I must agree with Cyclone on this one. Moby is the pop poster boy of techno. He's insanely jealous of the Detroit artists (it was evident when I talked to him about it) and that whole punk rock record he made was a complete mistake. His agent told him to get back into dance music because it was what people liked so he did it otherwise he might still be trying to be punk. He even said at one time, though he won't admit it (and I tried to get him to come clean about it), that he _left_ dance music because it was boring and all the wrong people were getting attention (at the time it was Aphex Twin) and that intelligent techno was getting all the attention and he thought it didn't deserve it. His attempt at making emotional music is pretty blatent minor key classical rip-offs. Go was interesting but not ground-breaking. The one track with, what was it, 1000 bpms? Wow, really stretching it there (sarcasim). The music sounds nice at times but I really think he follows what will put him in the spotlight and then wrapping himslef in a cloak of mystery and the little loser act to get sympathy (like that other wanker Morrisey). Which he isn't, he's one rich mutherf*cker. To compare his work to St. Germain is an insult to St. Germain and music with guts. I've seen him live several times and had the chance to see him rehearse his act before the actual live show. I saw and heard absolutely no improvisation or real heart and soul displayed...very choreographed. Even his jams on the bongos were worked out before hand. After talking with him and doing extensive background research on him I really do feel that he would be doing something else if dance music wasn't paying his bills. Fred From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:24:38 +1000 I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I just don't get the Moby is a pioneer argument myself. You know the story of that album, don't you? Moby went out to his local chain store bought two CDs of old blues/gospel samples and thought aha and viola. You could do it. Even Puffy is more original as at least he devised an aesthetic (hip-hop soul) and didn't just sample. And as for Moby's live shows, well
Re: (313) Let's Talk Techno (Responses, Act I)
Wow! 40+ responses. That made my day. To any artists out there, I don't mean disrespect, only stating my personal ideas about my favorite records. Don't mean to offend. Im on the clock, here are my defenses: Re: Herbie Hancock, Bob Marley, Parliament, etc. Jazz, reggae, soul. This is a specifically electronic list. Great artists, but in totally different genres. And, BTW, I think King Tubby has a lot more in common with modern electronics then Bob Marley, and not to start yet another debate, but I have gotten more from Yabby Yous 2CD retrospective than every other reggae/dub record Ive heard in my life put together (Congos, Burning Spear, Horace Andy, etc.) That might be my favorite record. Re: Juan Atkins I love Juan Atkins. I dont want to seem like Im disrespecting Juan Atkins, and Im probably the only person in the 313 world who thinks this, but I never cared for his music. He was a great influence on people to _MAKE_ electronic music: I dont think he, musically, had any influence on Derrick May, who is the man all techno producers probably concede started their careers. Derrick might not agree with me, but I hear no trace of Juan Atkins on Strings of Life or anything thereafter: Derrick was just so far ahead of the game. For me, Atkins Model 500 material sounds like the cover art to Classics looks. He doesnt have (for me) the emotional impact of his prominent predecessors (Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder, even Yellow Magic Orchestra), contemporaries (Afrika Bambaata), or followers (May, Craig, Banks, et al.) And Juans best record, I think, is The Infiniti Collection, but when you judge that record against what UR, Carl, Mark and Tom, B12, the Orb, et al. I dont think it is as strong. However, if this were a top 100 list, both Infiniti CDs would be on it, which means Juan is still in the top 1% of producers, but I dont think any of his CDs belong in my top 50. Juan has been a great mentor, a great ambassador, and most other things for techno, and deserves a great deal of admiration and praise for those accomplishments, but I think his music is not on the level of the artists I mentioned. Just my thoughts, I encourage everyone who hasnt heard Juan Atkins to buy his discs and make your own assessment: if you havent heard him, you are missing out on a very important piece in the techno puzzle, and I dont mean to question his historical importance nor the fact that he would/will be pre-requisite listening in any Techno 101 class. As my music teacher once said, it doesnt matter if _you_ like it. So check Juan out. Black Dog: Bytes I used to love this album. I still think many of the hooks are brilliant. However, I think every track on the album has the same structure: open with a great hook, go into a (to my ears) lukewarm middle section, end with the hook briefly again. Listening to this album recently, all I can hear are those middle sections, and its gotten to the point where I cant even listen to this anymore. Again, this is as important to be familiar with as Juan Atkins material (Ken, Ed, Andy dont be mad at me), but I dont think it stands the test of repeated listening. I could be wrong. If youre a DJ, you need this record, because the hooks work phenomenally in sets. All other 313 fans will probably still need to own this album. Me? Im jaded. I dont like this record anymore. Claude Young: DJ Kicks, Mills picks, and the high % of DJ records My feeling remains that techno is a DJ format, especially hard techno and tracks that arent gifted with much more than a slightly catchy hook. A good DJ can make a set out of mostly good, not stellar tracks Id never buy otherwise into something brilliant (in fact, almost all the DJ albums I have do this.) In fact, DJ mix albums are usually much more interesting because, lets face it, techno is repetetive, and if the groove isnt insanely good, who wants 5:00 of it? (KDJ is the only modern producer whose full tracks (his good ones, that is) dont seem long at 9:00, but in fact, not long enough (I listened to that Misled 12 like forty times the first day I got it.)) This is my problem, for example, with most of the Mills CDs. As a DJ, Jeff knows that concision (if thats not a word, it should be) is the key, and he displays this unbelievably well on Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo which is one of the greatest records ever in techno (would make my top 5.) Most of the other DJ mix discs do a similar thing. The reason I dont include the other Mills discs is because: 1) I think Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo sums up his material (and the rest of the hard techno scene) far better and 2) I think choosing not to cut down the tracks to approx. 2:30 or less in length on all his other discs hurts home listening. As for Claudes (isnt it 1100) DJF 1100 I saw a tracklisting on Sonys site, it looks pretty good, Ill try to get a hold of it. I still think his DJ Kicks volume will likely belong on the list, that is a
Re: [313] Re: (313) Let's Talk Techno (Responses, Act I)
now that we gave you the spotlight, and our precious time, we hereby give you the gold medal that you always wanted, and move on.end of story. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 3:01 PM Subject: [313] Re: (313) Let's Talk Techno (Responses, Act I) Wow! 40+ responses. That made my day. To any artists out there, I don't mean disrespect, only stating my personal ideas about my favorite records. Don't mean to offend. I'm on the clock, here are my defenses: Re: Herbie Hancock, Bob Marley, Parliament, etc. Jazz, reggae, soul. This is a specifically electronic list. Great artists, but in totally different genres. And, BTW, I think King Tubby has a lot more in common with modern electronics then Bob Marley, and not to start yet another debate, but I have gotten more from Yabby You's 2CD retrospective than every other reggae/dub record I've heard in my life put together (Congos, Burning Spear, Horace Andy, etc.) That might be my favorite record. Re: Juan Atkins I love Juan Atkins. I don't want to seem like I'm disrespecting Juan Atkins, and I'm probably the only person in the 313 world who thinks this, but I never cared for his music. He was a great influence on people to _MAKE_ electronic music: I don't think he, musically, had any influence on Derrick May, who is the man all techno producers probably concede started their careers. Derrick might not agree with me, but I hear no trace of Juan Atkins on Strings of Life or anything thereafter: Derrick was just so far ahead of the game. For me, Atkins' Model 500 material sounds like the cover art to Classics looks. He doesn't have (for me) the emotional impact of his prominent predecessors (Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder, even Yellow Magic Orchestra), contemporaries (Afrika Bambaata), or followers (May, Craig, Banks, et al.) And Juan's best record, I think, is The Infiniti Collection, but when you judge that record against what UR, Carl, Mark and Tom, B12, the Orb, et al. I don't think it is as strong. However, if this were a top 100 list, both Infiniti CD's would be on it, which means Juan is still in the top 1% of producers, but I don't think any of his CD's belong in my top 50. Juan has been a great mentor, a great ambassador, and most other things for techno, and deserves a great deal of admiration and praise for those accomplishments, but I think his music is not on the level of the artists I mentioned. Just my thoughts, I encourage everyone who hasn't heard Juan Atkins to buy his discs and make your own assessment: if you haven't heard him, you are missing out on a very important piece in the techno puzzle, and I don't mean to question his historical importance nor the fact that he would/will be pre-requisite listening in any Techno 101 class. As my music teacher once said, it doesn't matter if _you_ like it. So check Juan out. Black Dog: Bytes I used to love this album. I still think many of the hooks are brilliant. However, I think every track on the album has the same structure: open with a great hook, go into a (to my ears) lukewarm middle section, end with the hook briefly again. Listening to this album recently, all I can hear are those middle sections, and it's gotten to the point where I can't even listen to this anymore. Again, this is as important to be familiar with as Juan Atkins' material (Ken, Ed, Andy don't be mad at me), but I don't think it stands the test of repeated listening. I could be wrong. If you're a DJ, you need this record, because the hooks work phenomenally in sets. All other 313 fans will probably still need to own this album. Me? I'm jaded. I don't like this record anymore. Claude Young: DJ Kicks, Mills picks, and the high % of DJ records My feeling remains that techno is a DJ format, especially hard techno and tracks that aren't gifted with much more than a slightly catchy hook. A good DJ can make a set out of mostly good, not stellar tracks I'd never buy otherwise into something brilliant (in fact, almost all the DJ albums I have do this.) In fact, DJ mix albums are usually much more interesting because, let's face it, techno is repetetive, and if the groove isn't insanely good, who wants 5:00 of it? (KDJ is the only modern producer whose full tracks (his good ones, that is) don't seem long at 9:00, but in fact, not long enough (I listened to that Misled 12 like forty times the first day I got it.)) This is my problem, for example, with most of the Mills CD's. As a DJ, Jeff knows that concision (if that's not a word, it should be) is the key, and he displays this unbelievably well on Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo which is one of the greatest records ever in techno (would make my top 5.) Most of the other DJ mix discs do a similar thing. The reason I don't include the other Mills discs is because: 1) I think Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo sums up his material (and the rest of the hard techno scene) far better and 2) I think choosing
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Oh yeah this is what we are waiting for a discusion about wheter Moby's music is real. For the 'techno-purists' amongst us Moby will never be real. For others who aren't so purist-like really don't care that much. [EMAIL PROTECTED] yes there is something in not mixing artists and art but moby is case for it self.. i dont know wierd in interviews, and everything. thing is that i never heard him talk about music something that is not linked to his music, he is always moby this , my music that. first moby should stop mixing him self and music, than we can talk about his emotional music, wich i beleive he dont know how to make. respect m. --- M. Todd Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your all missing the point, who gives a F@@k about the money and the attitude we're (or so I thought) talking about music) not about your last interview with so and so, or how blah blah blah never shook your hand after the show, or whether or not a whole show is improvised (christ even iggy pop rehearses his shows now). His attempt at making emotional music has worked, his music is being used in commercials around the world, because it moves you. You think its a pretty blatent ripoff, well to the trained ear maybe, but then again I could go on how about how Pepe Braddock ripped off Tribe who ripped off the NY Philharmonic, and that's way more obvious. BTW In your three paragraphs of writing you spent all but two sentences talking about music, your letting yourself get to wrapped up in the inner workings of the people behind the music instead of enjoying it for what it is (MUSIC). Morrisey rocks! todd - Original Message - From: FRED MCMURRY [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:07 PM Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
there is no discusion about influensces and other music, i think if i listen techno all the time i go crazy, i like music i live with music, but i love techno, i know much about it and moby at the end never did somethning revolutionary like some guys from detroit or berlin or london or paris. m. --- Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I respect Todd's and others view (my antipathy is to Moby not you guys) but to clairify: the point me and Fred were making was that Moby has the opportunity to point out the real roots of the music and he doesn't, so how can people find out about Detroit techno through his work, then?. I gained my music education by being into Prince as a kid then tracing his work back to Sly Stone, Parliament, Miles Davis, etc, because in the few interviews Prince gave in the 80s (anyone heard the one he gave to E Mojo in the mid-80s where he goes hey y'all motor city babies? I have it on tape somewhere) he acknowledged his influences, as many musicians do. I guess I admire those who can isolate the music but music never exists in a vaccum; it reflects the values of the music-maker, among other things. Personally I don't think it necessarily has much to do with musical purism. Timbaland Missy Elliott are like techno to me yet they're 'commercial'. __ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
If we're gonna mention Kraftwerk, then there's no way we can avoid 'Computer World'. In my book, it sparked the whole detroit thing. Miles
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
For the 'techno-purists' amongst us Moby will never be real. For others who aren't so purist-like really don't care that much. I was simply waiting for that to be stated, and I apologize now for the length, this field is a passion of mine, and I enjoy testing new theories in debate... Anyways, I got into this on the Axis site during the drum talk. I truly feel that there is not a measurable difference between the quality of say Moby vs.. Paul Mac, both are pretty much on the same plain as far as over all skill is concerned. But I insist, we all _must_ realize the seeds of argument in which has been circulating for the entire existence of our musics; that we all must realize that there are stark, and rarely recognized differences amongst the listener... Techno-purists are into minimal repetition for a reason, the reason being that repetition and minimalism is appealing and more so, comforting, in that there is very little information to interpret. In other words, I think that the techno-purist tends to be introverted (very sensitive to environment and stimulation), thus gravitating towards to rawest art, in this case techno... Moby and people like good 'ol Oakie have a tendency to attract the opposite, extroverts (not so sensitive to stimulation), people who need even more input then techno has, they need more than a raw emotion spooned out, they need defined emotion to fell truly satisfied... Ever notice a techno freak listening to a Van Dyke record? The result is often anxiety. Same with a out going socialite listening to Oliver Ho playing locked grooves, their anxious because they're waiting for some defining moment to occur... The magic that techno-purists feel however is something very unique, albeit, not in any way better. Because of the repetition and raw emotion of techno (as opposed to the defined emotion of say epic-trance), the listener/dancer has his/her emotional autonomy _returned_ to them, a first in modern music BTW (as far as I can tell, aside from tribal, correct me if I am wrong), the music needs the listener to be complete, repetition is merely a blue-print in which frames the listeners emotions in a stable platform- without real listeners, repetition is merely that, repetition. The is starkly different from pop music or epic trance in which the listener is fully controlled and told what to feel, it would be difficult to feel real anger during Binary Finary, but no one can truly describe any single set of emotions behind any Rob Hood record because it is unique from listener to listener... I call this music/listener relationship in techno toneshifting in that the tendency to a person locked into a groove with techno is to project outwards melody which isn't there, they shift the tone of the track in their head. This again shows the beauty of techno in that each person listening may very well be hearing something entirely different than the person standing next to you... I also propose that this is the fuel behind the earlier experiments of modern art, cubism, abstraction, ect., the artists (who funny enough, tend to be super introverts!!) were trying to return the autonomy back to the viewer, a single block of yellow painted on canvas is pure and undefined, it is raw emotion, nothing else. It is the job of the viewer to project out onto the painting and add the emotional definition, thus making the painting totally unique from one person to the next. This is why it's silly to go to openings like many that I do, and try to figure out the artists pain in a picture that simply is a couple of simple shapes, man, its _your_ job to put _your_ pain or happiness onto the picture, forget the artist... I drift. To finalize, the debate between Moby and Hood or whatever will never be solved in that they are two entirely different forms of art, despite the use of the same medium. One is entertainment (Moby) one is guidance (techno), and it's your personality type the determines which art you need most for emotional gratification... And last but certainly not least, techno can never be defined because it would require a definition of every Toneshift in every mind and in every ear... sorry about the length, darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
blah blah blah, why do ppl have to question it anyway? Music is music. I like minimal stuff and abstract stuff and even some commercial stuff. I listen to 4Hero and Moby and John Tejada and Geatano Parisio and Titonton Duvante and The Detroit Escalator Co and Marvin Gaye and Ennio Morricone etc etc etc... But I insist, we all _must_ realize the seeds of argument in which has been circulating for the entire existence of our musics; that we all must realize that there are stark, and rarely recognized differences amongst the listener... WHY must we realise these differences? We all know that most ppl who listen to STEPS are generally under 18 or gay(no diss intended to all who this concerns;). Techno is a different thing depending on the person. There IS a difference between underground and commercial music . Ppl go mental about that argument tho so I'm not gonna stray down that path for long except to say that, in my eyes, commercial music is what the public is fed, underground music we have to SEEK OUT to find, a need of a certain kind of people, connoisseurs of music I s'pose... Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, if it's hotter than Satan's underpants... I want it... --- darw_n [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For the 'techno-purists' amongst us Moby will never be real. For others who aren't so purist-like really don't care that much. I was simply waiting for that to be stated, and I apologize now for the length, this field is a passion of mine, and I enjoy testing new theories in debate... Anyways, I got into this on the Axis site during the drum talk. I truly feel that there is not a measurable difference between the quality of say Moby vs.. Paul Mac, both are pretty much on the same plain as far as over all skill is concerned. But I insist, we all _must_ realize the seeds of argument in which has been circulating for the entire existence of our musics; that we all must realize that there are stark, and rarely recognized differences amongst the listener... Techno-purists are into minimal repetition for a reason, the reason being that repetition and minimalism is appealing and more so, comforting, in that there is very little information to interpret. In other words, I think that the techno-purist tends to be introverted (very sensitive to environment and stimulation), thus gravitating towards to rawest art, in this case techno... Moby and people like good 'ol Oakie have a tendency to attract the opposite, extroverts (not so sensitive to stimulation), people who need even more input then techno has, they need more than a raw emotion spooned out, they need defined emotion to fell truly satisfied... Ever notice a techno freak listening to a Van Dyke record? The result is often anxiety. Same with a out going socialite listening to Oliver Ho playing locked grooves, their anxious because they're waiting for some defining moment to occur... The magic that techno-purists feel however is something very unique, albeit, not in any way better. Because of the repetition and raw emotion of techno (as opposed to the defined emotion of say epic-trance), the listener/dancer has his/her emotional autonomy _returned_ to them, a first in modern music BTW (as far as I can tell, aside from tribal, correct me if I am wrong), the music needs the listener to be complete, repetition is merely a blue-print in which frames the listeners emotions in a stable platform- without real listeners, repetition is merely that, repetition. The is starkly different from pop music or epic trance in which the listener is fully controlled and told what to feel, it would be difficult to feel real anger during Binary Finary, but no one can truly describe any single set of emotions behind any Rob Hood record because it is unique from listener to listener... I call this music/listener relationship in techno toneshifting in that the tendency to a person locked into a groove with techno is to project outwards melody which isn't there, they shift the tone of the track in their head. This again shows the beauty of techno in that each person listening may very well be hearing something entirely different than the person standing next to you... I also propose that this is the fuel behind the earlier experiments of modern art, cubism, abstraction, ect., the artists (who funny enough, tend to be super introverts!!) were trying to return the autonomy back to the viewer, a single block of yellow painted on canvas is pure and undefined, it is raw emotion, nothing else. It is the job of the viewer to project out onto the painting and add the emotional definition, thus making the painting totally unique from one person to the next. This is why it's silly to go to openings like many that I do, and try to figure out the artists pain in a picture that simply is a couple of simple shapes, man, its _your_ job to put _your_ pain or
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I would have to add amorphous androgenous to this list. [EMAIL PROTECTED] om To: 313@hyperreal.org cc: 09/15/00 Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno 08:44 PM Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
ok... i really have to disagree with this one... i think carl craig has broken a lot of boundries both with landcruising and more songs about food and revolutionary art. those albums and even the more accessible secret tapes of dr. eich have provoked years of thought in me. the music makes me think and feel and move and groove. if that is the purpose, it has been acheived with me . what exactly is your 'cause'? and for how long do you have to dwell on the old masters before the new masters can receive credit for their own work? if you continually throw back to the originators, you are never moving forward. we all know how great juan's contribution has been. i don't think that means that no one who has been influenced by him can be called an innovator. i am not sure what your 'cause' is, but to me it definitely seems contrary to moving toward a positive musical future. peace, h mee-thod [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ialix.com cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno 09/16/00 12:51 AM On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think Ok, your time starts now :) I'd really like to know how you can contemplate omitting Juan Atkins from your list. I don't think people like Carl Craig, Theo Parrish, or KDJ would get the props for innovation without Juan Atkins laying the foundation. And he's still doing it. In fact, I was talking abut this the other day. And it was decided that as marvellous as Carl Craig is , his music is not truly innovative. That's if we decide innovative is music that breaks boundaires, provokes thought and advances the 'cause'. :) emma mee-thod -it's in the way that you groove it- - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
hi, I would like to add Frontline Assembly's 'Tactical Neural Implant' - yeah, i know, it's not detroit, but it is electronic music, and very excellent cd. there's tons of sound layers mixed beautifully together.. and you should really listen to it on dolby surround system since it was mixed for such use. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have to add amorphous androgenous to this list. Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. clip /sakke -- work http://www.teraflops.com/ personal http://www.vip.fi/~sakke/
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Well I have to admit that I think Meat Beat Manifesto : Storm The Studio should be on the list. Or the CD compilation of 69 on RS. But I have to admit that I agree with what somebody stated earlier in electronic music the 12 are also very important. JayCee -Original Message- From: Sakari Karipuro [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: maandag 18 september 2000 13:56 To: Detroit Subject:Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno hi, I would like to add Frontline Assembly's 'Tactical Neural Implant' - yeah, i know, it's not detroit, but it is electronic music, and very excellent cd. there's tons of sound layers mixed beautifully together.. and you should really listen to it on dolby surround system since it was mixed for such use. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would have to add amorphous androgenous to this list. Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. clip /sakke -- work http://www.teraflops.com/ personal http://www.vip.fi/~sakke/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Shouldn't all electronic styles be represented here ? I do not see much in jungle/drum'n bass, not much in dubby stuff such as Pole ? The Plug and BC surely do not represent the whole spectrum, D'n B wise I would have put Tally Ho! rather than Plug, added Third Eye Foundation's Ghosts and Amon Tobin's Bricolage, dubby wise I would have added Pole 3 and the Sabres of Paradise's Haunted dancehall Plus : the ART comp would be enough to represent both Black Dog Balil, there is too much ambient stuff, while the harder stuff seems completely absent (Tresor ?), I see no trip-hop either, I think Interstellar Fugitives is more interesting than Revolution for Change, have you forgotten Renegade Soundwave? and what about two great LPs from last year : Console's Rocket in the pocket and Moby's Play (no provocation here, but I really think Moby is underrated, and even in spite of its huge commercial success, this LP proved both long-lasting and able to bring tons of new listeners to electronic music) Gwendal Heres something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CDs of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. Ive been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, Id love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (MoWax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum n Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orbs Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I havent gotten these CDs yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CDs of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciyas The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, lets talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Holly wrote: tapes of dr. eich have provoked years of thought in me. the music makes me think and feel and move and groove. if that is the purpose, it has been acheived with me . what exactly is your 'cause'? ahhh don't think this is the forum for MY manifesto actually ;) it's a lil too hardcore. however, 'the cause' which i was alluding to is electronic music pushing boundaries, provoking thought, breaking down established musical forms, advancing sonic tools... usual stuff that i figured most ppl into electronic music r into... as opposed to breaking the top40 being a motivator basically (not that there's anything wrong with that blah blah). and for how long do you have to dwell on the old masters before the new masters can receive credit for their own work? if you continually throw back to the originators, you are never moving forward. we all know how great juan's contribution has been. i don't think that means that no one who has been influenced by him can be called an innovator. Absolutely, and I don't think anyone was suggesting this. Remembering where you have been doesn't stop you from moving forward. Respecting a source doesn't stop you creating and leaping off that point. i am not sure what your 'cause' is, but to me it definitely seems contrary to moving toward a positive musical future. well, if u don't know what it is how can u be sure it's contrary to wot u r on about ;) tsk tsk out emma mee-thod -it's in the way you groove it-
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I´m completely lost here,...moby? Amon Tobin? ehhh.. and the swap, interstellar instead of of revolution for chance? very strange 154
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno + UR
essential db should b people like mark and dego, goldie, groove, or doc essential release---golden age/parallel universe/terminator not amon tobin, prob great stuff but not db. db more than just choppin up breaks...rob swift no db either UR means revolution for change b4 anything else, its the foundation of their sound moby is pop music, his experimental contribution to electronic music r as insightfull as shock-therapy knowing UR is learning what 313 is about, like techno´s own clinton. 154
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Amon Tobin's Bricolage is a work of art. [EMAIL PROTECTED] andstad.nl To: 313@hyperreal.org cc: 09/18/00 09:47 Subject: RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno AM I´m completely lost here,...moby? Amon Tobin? ehhh.. and the swap, interstellar instead of of revolution for chance? very strange 154 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
try hidden agenda´s rmx 4 some tru uk style amen rinse out 154
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Richie's Sheet One! Am I the only one who believe's that this should not only make the top 50, but at least the top 10 of the most important electronic albums? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:44 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
closer to home, geographically, and mentally, try 'evil ' 12 by robbers / manshanden..guy!out.bond. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 1:22 AM Subject: RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno try hidden agenda´s rmx 4 some tru uk style amen rinse out 154 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Oups, you're right, though I'd rather put his Consumed Gwendal -Original Message- From: Benjamin Cuthbert (Merch) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 5:48 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 313@hyperreal.org Subject: RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Richie's Sheet One! Am I the only one who believe's that this should not only make the top 50, but at least the top 10 of the most important electronic albums? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:44 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I don't believe 'sheet one' was all that important, it was neither awe inspiring or innovative (everyone was throwing acid lines all over the place at that point in time) each track is a variation on a theme, and generally made excessive listening boring. If I was to vote one piece of Richies work into a top ten it would be the FUSE album. I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I however cannot believe that there isn't some Bob Marley on this list (or at least the Laswell Rmx album). I don't think we would all be in the same place sometimes if it wasn't for Marley. Todd - Original Message - From: Benjamin Cuthbert (Merch) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 8:47 AM Subject: RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno I can't believe that nobody has mentioned Richie's Sheet One! Am I the only one who believe's that this should not only make the top 50, but at least the top 10 of the most important electronic albums? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 15, 2000 8:44 PM To: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
Richie's Sheet One! Am I the only one who believe's that this should not only make the top 50, but at least the top 10 of the most important electronic albums? yeah... IMHO, consumed is a very important work, but sheet one is simply a good album, not much more... my opinion of coarse... darw_n create, demonstrate, toneshift... http://www.mp3.com/darw_n http://www.sphereproductions.com/topic/Darwin.html http://www.mannequinodd.com
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I just don't get the Moby is a pioneer argument myself. You know the story of that album, don't you? Moby went out to his local chain store bought two CDs of old blues/gospel samples and thought aha and viola. You could do it. Even Puffy is more original as at least he devised an aesthetic (hip-hop soul) and didn't just sample. And as for Moby's live shows, well. Now Garnier, there IS a genius.
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I must agree with Cyclone on this one. Moby is the pop poster boy of techno. He's insanely jealous of the Detroit artists (it was evident when I talked to him about it) and that whole punk rock record he made was a complete mistake. His agent told him to get back into dance music because it was what people liked so he did it otherwise he might still be trying to be punk. He even said at one time, though he won't admit it (and I tried to get him to come clean about it), that he _left_ dance music because it was boring and all the wrong people were getting attention (at the time it was Aphex Twin) and that intelligent techno was getting all the attention and he thought it didn't deserve it. His attempt at making emotional music is pretty blatent minor key classical rip-offs. Go was interesting but not ground-breaking. The one track with, what was it, 1000 bpms? Wow, really stretching it there (sarcasim). The music sounds nice at times but I really think he follows what will put him in the spotlight and then wrapping himslef in a cloak of mystery and the little loser act to get sympathy (like that other wanker Morrisey). Which he isn't, he's one rich mutherf*cker. To compare his work to St. Germain is an insult to St. Germain and music with guts. I've seen him live several times and had the chance to see him rehearse his act before the actual live show. I saw and heard absolutely no improvisation or real heart and soul displayed...very choreographed. Even his jams on the bongos were worked out before hand. After talking with him and doing extensive background research on him I really do feel that he would be doing something else if dance music wasn't paying his bills. Fred From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:24:38 +1000 I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I just don't get the Moby is a pioneer argument myself. You know the story of that album, don't you? Moby went out to his local chain store bought two CDs of old blues/gospel samples and thought aha and viola. You could do it. Even Puffy is more original as at least he devised an aesthetic (hip-hop soul) and didn't just sample. And as for Moby's live shows, well. Now Garnier, there IS a genius. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
RE: [313] Let's Talk Techno
But it begs the question... why spend 3 pages of an e-mail to bash on someone so insignificant? If there's one thing I credit Moby for (and the same thing I'd credit Trance for), it's that it brings a lot of kids into some great music they might not have been exposed to otherwise... in the silver-lining category :). In fact, I'd bet a lot of die-hard 313'ers might be able to credit early Moby as one of their first experiences in dance music that got them into it. Of course, this is about as circumstantial as the evidence you offer up BUT my point is that we need to end the artist-slamming and the your 100 top records list sucks! business and try to be more constructive. Ryan Heard -Original Message- From: FRED MCMURRY [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 18, 2000 2:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno I must agree with Cyclone on this one. Moby is the pop poster boy of techno. He's insanely jealous of the Detroit artists (it was evident when I talked to him about it) and that whole punk rock record he made was a complete mistake. His agent told him to get back into dance music because it was what people liked so he did it otherwise he might still be trying to be punk. He even said at one time, though he won't admit it (and I tried to get him to come clean about it), that he _left_ dance music because it was boring and all the wrong people were getting attention (at the time it was Aphex Twin) and that intelligent techno was getting all the attention and he thought it didn't deserve it. His attempt at making emotional music is pretty blatent minor key classical rip-offs. Go was interesting but not ground-breaking. The one track with, what was it, 1000 bpms? Wow, really stretching it there (sarcasim). The music sounds nice at times but I really think he follows what will put him in the spotlight and then wrapping himslef in a cloak of mystery and the little loser act to get sympathy (like that other wanker Morrisey). Which he isn't, he's one rich mutherf*cker. To compare his work to St. Germain is an insult to St. Germain and music with guts. I've seen him live several times and had the chance to see him rehearse his act before the actual live show. I saw and heard absolutely no improvisation or real heart and soul displayed...very choreographed. Even his jams on the bongos were worked out before hand. After talking with him and doing extensive background research on him I really do feel that he would be doing something else if dance music wasn't paying his bills. Fred From: Cyclone Wehner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313 Detroit 313@hyperreal.org Subject: Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 06:24:38 +1000 I also agree with Gwendal, Moby's last album Play is very enlightening, not unlike Garnier's last one, it plays with a whole range of electronic styles, and reminds me of some early St. Germain. I just don't get the Moby is a pioneer argument myself. You know the story of that album, don't you? Moby went out to his local chain store bought two CDs of old blues/gospel samples and thought aha and viola. You could do it. Even Puffy is more original as at least he devised an aesthetic (hip-hop soul) and didn't just sample. And as for Moby's live shows, well. Now Garnier, there IS a genius. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
How about: Bill Laswell remixes Miles Davis - Panthalassa jurren _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com.
innovation? Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
What do u mean by truly innovative. I think that there is nothing in between something that is innovative and something that is not. Innovative is just making changes in anything established. So i cant see why Carl Craig isn't innovative, u just have to listen to Innerzone orchestra Programmed. sam Brian Eno has borrowed a very interested theory about cultural innovation from the academic world. He does not believe that innovation is a singular personal process, rather, it is a larger process of cultural composting. In other words, there are no new musical ideas, but the more records that are made, the more these ideas pile up and cross breed with one another. Eventually those records become forgotten about, but the ideas they contained were broken down, and went on to become the building blocks for new records, which will be eventually forgotten about... The best way to explain this would be Detroit Techno. (big disclaimer, RELAX, I LOVE Detroit music, take a deep breath and step away from you computer before you flame me...) My favorite music in the world is Rhythim is Rhythim, I love those records more than anything else out there. Derrick May claims to be an innovator, but was he really? Derrick May did not really invent anything, he never used any chords that had never been used before, he never made any rhythms that did not previously exist, he never used any sounds that had not been used before... What he did do is take a bunch of ideas that already previously existed in different musical genres, and put them together in a way that was personal to him. Detroit Techno is nothing but electro, italo-disco, new wave, and funk thrown into a blender. Was Techno completely new? No, not at all, it was a continuation of the African American musical tradition, with elements of European electronic music blended in. What he did was incredibly difficult, he took a bunch of different ideas, from genres that most people would not think to put together, and weaved those existing threads into something that was uniquely his. Nobody is truly innovative they got their ideas from previously existing records, and put their own personal twist on something that was already there. Think about how much music was released between James Brown's best moments in the 60's, and Juan Atkins' work in the 80's-early 90's? How different are they, how much are they the same? Kraftwerk was 60 minimalism and James Brown, mixed with baroque melodies, and what was going on in the 70's German electronic scene...any musician who matters stole from their heros...is anything really new and innovative? Did Carl Craig not borrow from Derrick May, Hip Hop, and Miles Davis through his various guises? The point that I am trying to make is, that we really need to calm down about who is and is not innovative. New music does not just appear out of thin air, it grew out of the influences of the producers who made it. Nobody in larger cultures writes music that does not make a reference to somebody else. I love Detroit Techno, but like all genres, it grew out of the past, it does wear its influences on its sleeve. Take care, Mike Taylor -- Michael Taylor : [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.billionairesforbushorgore.com
Re: [313] innovation? Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
when you say the African-American musical tradition, what do you mean specifically?? like elements of this tradition are you referring to Surely there is nothing new under the sun and we could never pinpoint who truly innovated stuff; maybe someone else emphasized rhythm like James Brown but did not have the resources to make the records. I guess elevens and thirteenths already existed but Charlie Parker used them differentlyand the be-boppers formed a nexus. Kodwo Eshun talks about how music is its own genesis and that musical movements can not be relegated to history but, I think it is somewhere in between. I'm still thinking about this one...I don't know that anyone did what Jimi Hendrix did before him but maybe differents artists had ideas but were not able to carry them out. still thinking about why we call people innovators and of course things are always contextual. Five
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson... are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. I certainly hope so! :)
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I would also include techno artists like Missy Elliott and Timbaland - both underrated in some circles (though many an electronic producer appreciates them), and The RZA - there are tracks on Wu-Tang Forever that are so close to 'techno' it's not funny and I am amazed no producer has picked up on that sound and developed it, or maybe I have missed out on it. Just 'cause they sell don't mean they aren't at the forefront. Heres something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CDs of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. Ive been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, Id love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions.
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
I say yes The Quest must be included :-) but I don't know Moodymann's Forevernevermore??? I want to check it out. Peace, Five
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
please, oh please come to sydney. you could be head official / judge at the olympics - make sure gold goes to the atheletes you admire! on a different tip, choosing cathy freeman to light tha fire was a most progressive decision by the old guard - it broke and will continue to break many more barriers. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
you've omitted parliament. without them, techno would probably have developed somewhere other than detroit. and with a lot less soul - and alot more glowstix! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
you mentioned klf,...they who think that nailing 1 million pounds currency ] to a canvas, is art.out, bond. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 10:44 AM Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
On Fri, 15 Sep 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think Ok, your time starts now :) I'd really like to know how you can contemplate omitting Juan Atkins from your list. I don't think people like Carl Craig, Theo Parrish, or KDJ would get the props for innovation without Juan Atkins laying the foundation. And he's still doing it. In fact, I was talking abut this the other day. And it was decided that as marvellous as Carl Craig is , his music is not truly innovative. That's if we decide innovative is music that breaks boundaires, provokes thought and advances the 'cause'. :) emma mee-thod -it's in the way that you groove it-
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
--- mee-thod [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, I was talking abut this the other day. And it was decided that as marvellous as Carl Craig is , his music is not truly innovative. That's if we decide innovative is music that breaks boundaires, provokes thought and advances the 'cause'. What do u mean by truly innovative. I think that there is nothing in between something that is innovative and something that is not. Innovative is just making changes in anything established. So i cant see why Carl Craig isn't innovative, u just have to listen to Innerzone orchestra Programmed. sam __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
What do u mean by truly innovative. I think that there is nothing in between something that is innovative and something that is not. Innovative is just making changes in anything established. So i cant see why Carl Craig isn't innovative, u just have to listen to Innerzone orchestra Programmed. Goldie and much of the drum 'n' bass contingent reckon he's innovative, too - remember Bug In The Bassbin? Evaluating electronic music artists by albums alone is kinda not right - this is a culture where the 12 or EP is as important. It's not like rock music in that regard. Anyway, lists are fun but never definitive - when magazines run them it's soley to get people talking, trust me, we all know they are never definitive, magazine people, readers. Lists are just entertainment and stimulating on that level and I think the guy who first raised this probably meant it that way.
Re: [313] Let's Talk Techno
lol funny i just put Black Dogs bytes lp on just before i read this and i cant belive its not part of this list please can you defend your decisions not including it? Its prob my fav CD of all time 7 years on and i listen to it at least 5-6 a month cant say that about any other cd - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 313@hyperreal.org Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2000 1:44 AM Subject: [313] Let's Talk Techno Here's something to spark some much needed critical analysis on this list: if you had to name the fifty best AND most important electronic CD's of the past 25-odd years, what would they be? Here are my picks. I've been working on this for a while; believe me, I have considered most albums people are going to point out are absent. However, I'd love to discuss why you think that record is important. And yes, I do know Juan Atkins, Kevin Saunderson, Black Dog, and some others are not on here, and I think I can defend my decisions. -- Aphex Twin: Selected Ambient Works, Volume 2 (Warp) Autechre: Chiastic Slide (Warp) Balil: Parasight (Rising High) Basic Channel (BCP/EFA) Biosphere: Substrata (All Saints) Boards of Canada: Music Has the Right to Children (Matador/Warp/Skam) Brian Eno: Ambient 1 - Music For Airports (EG) Brian Eno Harold Budd: Ambient 2 - The Plateaux of Mirrors (EG) B12: Electro-Soma (Warp/AI) B12: Prelude Part 1 (B12) Claude Young: DJ Kicks (Stud!o K7) Carl Craig: Landcruising (Blanco Y Negro) Derrick May: Innovator (Transmat) Derrick May: Mix-Up, Volume 5 (Sony Japan) Detroit Escalator Co.: Soundtrack [313] (Ferox) Dettinger: Intershop (Kompakt) DJ Rolando: The Aztec Mystic Mix (Underground Resistance) DJ Shadow: Endtroducing (Mo'Wax) Fumiya Tanaka: I Am Not a DJ (Sony Japan) Fumiya Tanaka: Mix-Up, Volume 4 (Sony Japan) Future Sound of London: Lifeforms (Astralwerks) Gas: Pop (Mille Plateaux) Giorgio Moroder: From Here to Eternity (Repertoire) Global Communication: 76:14 (Dedicated) Harold Budd w/Brian Eno: The Pearl (EG) I-F: Mixed Up in the Hague, Volume 1 (Panama) Isolee: Rest (Playhouse) Jeff Mills: Live at the Liquid Room, Tokyo (React) John Beltran: Earth Nightfall (RS/Distance) Kraftwerk: Autobahn (EMI) Kraftwerk: Trans-Europe Express (Capitol) Kruder Dorfmeister: The KD Sessions (Stud!o K7) Monolake: Interstate (ml/i) Moodymann: A Silent Introduction (Planet E) Negativland: U2 (SST) Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich (Planet E) Pete Namlook: Air III (Instinct) Placid Angels: The Cry (Peacefrog) Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa (Nothing/Blue Planet) Reload: A Collection of Short Stories (Infonet) Sterac: The Secret Life of Machines (100% Pure) Tangerine Dream: Phaedra (Virgin) Tangerine Dream: Rubycon (Virgin) Terrence Parker: Tragedies of a Plastic Soul Junkie (Stud!o K7) Tetsu Inoue: World Receiver (Instinct) The KLF: Chill Out (TVT/Wax Trax) The Martian: LBK-6251876 (Red Planet) Theo Parrish: Sound Signature Sounds (Sound Signature) The Orb's Adventures Through the Ultraworld (Island) The Philosophy of Sound and Machine (A.R.T./Rephlex) Underground Resistance: Revolution For Change (Network) -- This list is _far_ from finished. I haven't gotten these CD's yet, that will in all probability make it on and replace less potent discs: Dettinger: Oasis Thomas Brinkmann: Rosa Moodymann: Forevernevermore Jedi Knights retrospective So, of course, as good albums appear, I will update this, although new releases would have to be something else to break through with CD's of the above caliber. Also, I am not sure whether Drexciya's The Quest should be includedif anyone has a good argument either way, let's talk. It's been a while since I remember an intricate, articulate 313 debate. Matt - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
