Re: Option click close box
Chip, I don’t know what an “option close” would look like: there’s no such event, and anyway it doesn’t matter to a particular window if it’s being told to close because every window is closing or because it alone is closing. They’re all in different processes; I’m still in “one process, one window” mode. I expect I’ll grow up one day, but not yet. I’ll do some more digging and put together a simple DB which demonstrates exactly what happens. Miyako, Yes, I think Keith was writing about ordinary clicks. When I’ve written my pared-down database, I’ll try to open a case. Or do I have to be a partner? Jeremy > On 10 Oct 2019, at 22:59, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote: > > Jeremy, > does 4D post an option close to each window? > > you could place an inis button on the form to catch it - > you should not have to, but... it might stop the problem. > > Are all the windows in the same process? or different processes? > > Chip > On 10 Oct 2019, at 23:01, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > I am a bit confused; so what Keith posted was just about regular (non-option) > clicks..? > > as I posted earlier, I can not say if this is a bug or not. > we can not find a 4D documentation that says explicitly that option-click > shall not invoke the event, > your argument makes sense; maybe time to open a case with local tech support? ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
I am a bit confused; so what Keith posted was just about regular (non-option) clicks..? as I posted earlier, I can not say if this is a bug or not. we can not find a 4D documentation that says explicitly that option-click shall not invoke the event, your argument makes sense; maybe time to open a case with local tech support? > 2019/10/11 6:51、Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール: > > What does bother me is the closing of input windows with no chance for the > user to intervene and say “hang on - I made those changes and I don’t want > you to throw them away without asking me”. That doesn’t seem right. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Jeremy, does 4D post an option close to each window? you could place an inis button on the form to catch it - you should not have to, but... it might stop the problem. Are all the windows in the same process? or different processes? Chip On Thu, 10 Oct 2019 22:51:45 +0100, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech wrote: > Miyako, > > In all honesty, I don’t really care about the splash screen; it > belongs to 4D and 4D can make it behave as it wishes; if I don’t > like it, I needn’t use the splash screen mechanism at all and, as > Keith observes, it’s not a tragedy if it closes. I mentioned it only > for completeness. > > What does bother me is the closing of input windows with no chance > for the user to intervene and say “hang on - I made those changes > and I don’t want you to throw them away without asking me”. That > doesn’t seem right. > > Jeremy > >> On 10 Oct 2019, at 22:44, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech >> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: >> >> thank you for sharing, >> >> so if that is the case, I suppose we can say that... >> >> the splash screen is not a dialog; On Close Box is not applicable by >> default. >> to prevent it from closing, you could use DIALOG in the application >> process. >> that said, starting a DIALOG (event loop) in On Startup is a very bad idea. >> you are never finished booting the app. >> >>> 2019/10/09 7:51、kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール: >>> >>> All true what you said, with some observations (17.3): >>> >>> If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but >>> does not close. An output window did close. >>> If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output >>> window it was opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN >>> WINDOW being called first). >>> The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)". >>> >>> I saw the application window close, but was able to >>> option-command-E to get the Explorer. > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** We have done so much, with so little, for so long; We are now qualified to anything with nothing - unknown ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Miyako, In all honesty, I don’t really care about the splash screen; it belongs to 4D and 4D can make it behave as it wishes; if I don’t like it, I needn’t use the splash screen mechanism at all and, as Keith observes, it’s not a tragedy if it closes. I mentioned it only for completeness. What does bother me is the closing of input windows with no chance for the user to intervene and say “hang on - I made those changes and I don’t want you to throw them away without asking me”. That doesn’t seem right. Jeremy > On 10 Oct 2019, at 22:44, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > thank you for sharing, > > so if that is the case, I suppose we can say that... > > the splash screen is not a dialog; On Close Box is not applicable by default. > to prevent it from closing, you could use DIALOG in the application process. > that said, starting a DIALOG (event loop) in On Startup is a very bad idea. > you are never finished booting the app. > >> 2019/10/09 7:51、kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール: >> >> All true what you said, with some observations (17.3): >> >> If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but does not >> close. An output window did close. >> If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output window it >> was opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN WINDOW being called >> first). >> The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)". >> >> I saw the application window close, but was able to option-command-E to get >> the Explorer. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
thank you for sharing, so if that is the case, I suppose we can say that... the splash screen is not a dialog; On Close Box is not applicable by default. to prevent it from closing, you could use DIALOG in the application process. that said, starting a DIALOG (event loop) in On Startup is a very bad idea. you are never finished booting the app. > 2019/10/09 7:51、kculotta via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール: > > All true what you said, with some observations (17.3): > > If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but does not > close. An output window did close. > If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output window it was > opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN WINDOW being called first). > The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)". > > I saw the application window close, but was able to option-command-E to get > the Explorer. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
All true what you said, with some observations (17.3): If On Close Box is checked, an input window gets the event, but does not close. An output window did close. If not checked an input window will close, revealing the output window it was opened from (when DIALOG was called without OPEN WINDOW being called first). The windows were created with "DIALOG(outputForm)". I saw the application window close, but was able to option-command-E to get the Explorer. Keith - CDI (sorry if any resend, still working out an eMail address change) > On Oct 8, 2019, at 4:57 PM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Nobody? > >> On 5 Oct 2019, at 12:56, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> >> wrote: >> >> Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All >> windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On >> close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop >> out of application mode. >> >> v17R5, Mac, running interpreted. >> >> Jeremy > > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Miyako, I am using your plugin, which is jolly useful! It provides handy visual feedback but other than that makes no difference. I do have the “ask” checkbox in System Preferences checked (I confess I was completely unaware of it until now, so thanks for that). In the 4D developer environment, of course, closing a “dirty” window just saves the changes without asking, so it doesn’t matter how it’s closed. It seems to me that not sending an On close box event to a window which is about to be closed is at best unfortunate. Jeremy > On 10 Oct 2019, at 14:49, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Hello, > > I am out of my depth on this subject, > > but would system preferences / general / ask whether to save changes before > closing document (unchecked by default) > > make any difference? > > for what it's worth, you can control the dirty bit and disable the close box > with this: > > https://miyako.github.io/2019/10/01/4d-plugin-window-control-v2.html ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Hello, I am out of my depth on this subject, but would system preferences / general / ask whether to save changes before closing document (unchecked by default) make any difference? for what it's worth, you can control the dirty bit and disable the close box with this: https://miyako.github.io/2019/10/01/4d-plugin-window-control-v2.html ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Miyako, In pretty much every Mac application which can have multiple windows open, option-click on the close box of a window closes all the app’s windows, and as far as I can recall always has. It’s essentially synonymous with cmd-opt-W. Try Preview, for example. In an app whose windows can be “dirty” (ie have unsaved changes), you should see a “save changes?” dialog for each dirty window. Again, try Preview and you’ll see what I mean. In 4D developer mode, option-click close has exactly the same effect as cmd-opt-W; all windows close. In application mode, cmd-opt-w does whatever I program it to do; I don’t think there’s a default supported by 4D. That’s fine. Option-click on the close box closes all windows, including the splash, and puts me into developer mode. It may well be that that’s what it’s supposed to do, but I’d have expected open application windows to be sent On close box events. Otherwise, “dirty” windows can’t ask whether changes should be saved: they’re just summarily closed. Jeremy > On 10 Oct 2019, at 09:23, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > not the close box, but "Option-Command-W" is standard Apple shortcut. > > https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 > > no mention of option+close here: > > https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/work-with-app-windows-mchlp2469/mac > > I can not comment if the form event not firing or the splash window closing > is a bug or not. > > do you get the same result with option+command+W? > > > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
not the close box, but "Option-Command-W" is standard Apple shortcut. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236 no mention of option+close here: https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/work-with-app-windows-mchlp2469/mac I can not comment if the form event not firing or the splash window closing is a bug or not. do you get the same result with option+command+W? ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Jodie, I did look at the documentation for v17R5 but I found nothing describing events which would be sent on option-click close button. Do you recall where it was previously documented? Jeremy > On 8 Oct 2019, at 23:19, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: > > Jeremy: > > I have not looked in the last few versions of of the manual. It was > documented when the feature came out many years ago. I typically do not read > all the manuals over, just read the update notes. Sometimes I do have to go > back and read the documentation over again, but not that often. > > I have not used it in a long time so the behavior you describe could be > happening. > > Jody Bevan > Argus Productions Inc. > > >> On Oct 5, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech >> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote: >> >> Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All >> windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On >> close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop >> out of application mode. >> >> v17R5, Mac, running interpreted. >> >> Jeremy ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Jeremy: I have not looked in the last few versions of of the manual. It was documented when the feature came out many years ago. I typically do not read all the manuals over, just read the update notes. Sometimes I do have to go back and read the documentation over again, but not that often. I have not used it in a long time so the behavior you describe could be happening. Jody Bevan Argus Productions Inc. > On Oct 5, 2019, at 5:56 AM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All > windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On > close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop out > of application mode. > > v17R5, Mac, running interpreted. > > Jeremy ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Option click close box
Nobody? > On 5 Oct 2019, at 12:56, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All > windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On > close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop out > of application mode. > > v17R5, Mac, running interpreted. > > Jeremy ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Option click close box
Is 4D’s response to option-click in a window’s close box documented? All windows close, which is as I’d expect, but they don’t seem to get sent an On close box event. Also, the default splash screen window closes and I drop out of application mode. v17R5, Mac, running interpreted. Jeremy ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
